AMA fields that exclude AMA groups.
10-15-2015, 06:53 PM
#101
We said. Additionally, it's the officers who look out for the best interests of all the members of the club. As so often happens, the member making a motion is typically only looking at their best interest and not the best interest of all the members of the club nor do they typically understand all the consequences of their motions.
10-15-2015, 07:03 PM
#102
It’s amazing to hear so many think they are entitled. This sense of entitlement is what the problem is today. No one feels they have to earn the right to belong/join a club or organization instead they feel entitled and think everyone else should accommodate them. Not going to happen in my neck of the woods.
Dennis
10-15-2015, 07:05 PM
#104
More food:
The conduct of ALL business is controlled by the general will of the whole membership - the right of the deliberate majority to decide. Complementary is the right of at least a strong minority to require the majority to be deliberate - to act according to its considered judgment AFTER a full and fair "working through" of the issues involved
Astro
The conduct of ALL business is controlled by the general will of the whole membership - the right of the deliberate majority to decide. Complementary is the right of at least a strong minority to require the majority to be deliberate - to act according to its considered judgment AFTER a full and fair "working through" of the issues involved
Astro
10-15-2015, 07:36 PM
#105
We said. Additionally, it's the officers who look out for the best interests of all the members of the club. As so often happens, the member making a motion is typically only looking at their best interest and not the best interest of all the members of the club nor do they typically understand all the consequences of their motions.
10-16-2015, 04:11 AM
#108
Well, if you believe me. I know a fixed wing club that had a field in a public park. Some heli guys wanted join the club and use the field. Initially they were welcomed and things proceeded well. Eventually one fixed wing pilot didn't want the heli pilots there (entitlement) and eventually prohibited helis from flying there. The heli guys formed there own club and went to the park's commission to complain and the parks commission told the fixed wing club they needed to share the field. The resentment towards the heli club continued due the entitlement by the fixed wing club. The park's commission eventually got tired of listening to all the complaining from each side and told both clubs they were only allowed to use the field on alternating days. One club got it even days and the the other club got it odd days. Needless to say both clubs were extremely unhappy with the even/odd day solution.
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 10-16-2015 at 04:15 AM.
10-16-2015, 04:38 AM
#109
So you have two groups of people fixed wing group and heli group,( who likely represent less than 1/2 of 1% of the tax-paying public in that area) fighting for exclusive use of property that was paid for by everybody???
Oh, that is PRICELESS! Sounds like both clubs think they are equally entitled to use everybody else's land!
I wonder how the other 99.5% of the taxpayers feel about that?
Astro
10-16-2015, 06:32 AM
#110
It is public land but the usage type and times are determined by the stewardship of that parcel of land. You the general public may use the land but only for the agreed upon purposes and times. Same as school grounds that have specific usages and times allowed.
If a club were to apply for permission to use an area for fixed wing only or of a certain size only the club has every right to enforce these limitations and have you removed if you attempt otherwise.
In many instances as a non-member of that club you may be allowed to use the facilities however you will find in most cases you must be a member of the AMA to do so. There will also be some times like an event or contest where you will not be allowed unless participating in that event. If my group makes contract for exclusive use of a plot of land to operate a club with specific types of models and states explicitly the exclusion of others they have every right to enforce that contract.
Public land doesn’t mean you can just walk in and do what you want when you want. People, organizations and clubs make contract/rent or lease said property at times for private use and if given permission by the authority that has stewardship of the land precludes your public rights during the contracted times/dates. A simple analogy: You cannot walk into a gym in a public school and use the facilities when someone or a group has made contract for its use even though it is public property.
Dennis
10-16-2015, 06:38 AM
#111
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Wow, I am so sorry to see a lot of your clubs are in such a mess. Really, you said Robert's name over and over. It's an RC club not congress guys. You al need to relax, dust off your plane and fly. Then you will remember why you belong to the club.
I bet you guys have monthly meetings too. I asked the Prez of a club here in Missouri why do u have monthly meetings? Then I asked why don't you have them at the field? Well people would want to fly. It's hard to have a meeting while people are flying!
I see, people flying at a RC field. Yep, I see you al have the same attitude to overcome.
Me I love our simple club of 70+ members, one meeting a year to eat pizza and re elect the officers. Talk about events and others minor subjects. But we do have a guy with the name Robert so I guess we are good.
Yes it's the same club that promotes the AMA and exclude no flying groups. We all get along and enjoy each other. I know we don't have a control freak running the club due to a secret. Don't tell any one. .... A RC club don't need one. It's suppose to be fun
When you guys fix your club issues then you might be able to look at AMA issues.
Crash99
I bet you guys have monthly meetings too. I asked the Prez of a club here in Missouri why do u have monthly meetings? Then I asked why don't you have them at the field? Well people would want to fly. It's hard to have a meeting while people are flying!
I see, people flying at a RC field. Yep, I see you al have the same attitude to overcome.
Me I love our simple club of 70+ members, one meeting a year to eat pizza and re elect the officers. Talk about events and others minor subjects. But we do have a guy with the name Robert so I guess we are good.
Yes it's the same club that promotes the AMA and exclude no flying groups. We all get along and enjoy each other. I know we don't have a control freak running the club due to a secret. Don't tell any one. .... A RC club don't need one. It's suppose to be fun
When you guys fix your club issues then you might be able to look at AMA issues.
Crash99
10-16-2015, 06:41 AM
#112
Many of the clubs operating on public land are under the stewardship of the Army Corps of Engineers and as such indeed are public property. A member of the Army Corps of Engineers who was also a serving member of the club executive explained how it worked re the land being as you say public.
It is public land but the usage type and times are determined by the stewardship of that parcel of land. You the general public may use the land but only for the agreed upon purposes and times. Same as school grounds that have specific usages and times allowed.
If a club were to apply for permission to use an area for fixed wing only or of a certain size only the club has every right to enforce these limitations and have you removed if you attempt otherwise.
In many instances as a non-member of that club you may be allowed to use the facilities however you will find in most cases you must be a member of the AMA to do so. There will also be some times like an event or contest where you will not be allowed unless participating in that event. If my group makes contract for exclusive use of a plot of land to operate a club with specific types of models and states explicitly the exclusion of others they have every right to enforce that contract.
Public land doesn’t mean you can just walk in and do what you want when you want. People, organizations and clubs make contract/rent or lease said property at times for private use and if given permission by the authority that has stewardship of the land precludes your public rights during the contracted times/dates. A simple analogy: You cannot walk into a gym in a public school and use the facilities when someone or a group has made contract for its use even though it is public property.
Dennis
It is public land but the usage type and times are determined by the stewardship of that parcel of land. You the general public may use the land but only for the agreed upon purposes and times. Same as school grounds that have specific usages and times allowed.
If a club were to apply for permission to use an area for fixed wing only or of a certain size only the club has every right to enforce these limitations and have you removed if you attempt otherwise.
In many instances as a non-member of that club you may be allowed to use the facilities however you will find in most cases you must be a member of the AMA to do so. There will also be some times like an event or contest where you will not be allowed unless participating in that event. If my group makes contract for exclusive use of a plot of land to operate a club with specific types of models and states explicitly the exclusion of others they have every right to enforce that contract.
Public land doesn’t mean you can just walk in and do what you want when you want. People, organizations and clubs make contract/rent or lease said property at times for private use and if given permission by the authority that has stewardship of the land precludes your public rights during the contracted times/dates. A simple analogy: You cannot walk into a gym in a public school and use the facilities when someone or a group has made contract for its use even though it is public property.
Dennis
Astro
10-16-2015, 07:53 AM
#113
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we have 2 fields which we own both , we allow every one to fly but we have the right not to let anyone fly we want , go buy you a field and start a club . AMA is our insurer not our boss to tell us who to and who not to let fly that is our choice , we allow all aircraft to fly , but if they don't abide by our rules then they are out , that's the bottom line and we have 160 members and no drama because we don't allow it !!!
Last edited by jmiles1941; 10-16-2015 at 07:56 AM.
10-16-2015, 09:04 AM
#114
3D and helicopter (and to some extent, gliders) are hard to work into a field with regular powered flight operating in a defined flight path. At meets, out club has set out times for 3D only (30 minutes or so) in order to avoid collisions.
10-16-2015, 10:06 AM
#115
It's a Big World though and you can always find exceptions, rarities, anomalies, flukes, outliers, etc.
Instead of basing my core beliefs, values and opinions on the obscure, I am much better served by paying attention to what I find to be true in the mainstream, center lane.
10-16-2015, 11:27 AM
#116
Many of the clubs operating on public land are under the stewardship of the Army Corps of Engineers and as such indeed are public property. A member of the Army Corps of Engineers who was also a serving member of the club executive explained how it worked re the land being as you say public.
It is public land but the usage type and times are determined by the stewardship of that parcel of land. You the general public may use the land but only for the agreed upon purposes and times. Same as school grounds that have specific usages and times allowed.
If a club were to apply for permission to use an area for fixed wing only or of a certain size only the club has every right to enforce these limitations and have you removed if you attempt otherwise.
In many instances as a non-member of that club you may be allowed to use the facilities however you will find in most cases you must be a member of the AMA to do so. There will also be some times like an event or contest where you will not be allowed unless participating in that event. If my group makes contract for exclusive use of a plot of land to operate a club with specific types of models and states explicitly the exclusion of others they have every right to enforce that contract.
Public land doesn’t mean you can just walk in and do what you want when you want. People, organizations and clubs make contract/rent or lease said property at times for private use and if given permission by the authority that has stewardship of the land precludes your public rights during the contracted times/dates. A simple analogy: You cannot walk into a gym in a public school and use the facilities when someone or a group has made contract for its use even though it is public property.
Dennis
It is public land but the usage type and times are determined by the stewardship of that parcel of land. You the general public may use the land but only for the agreed upon purposes and times. Same as school grounds that have specific usages and times allowed.
If a club were to apply for permission to use an area for fixed wing only or of a certain size only the club has every right to enforce these limitations and have you removed if you attempt otherwise.
In many instances as a non-member of that club you may be allowed to use the facilities however you will find in most cases you must be a member of the AMA to do so. There will also be some times like an event or contest where you will not be allowed unless participating in that event. If my group makes contract for exclusive use of a plot of land to operate a club with specific types of models and states explicitly the exclusion of others they have every right to enforce that contract.
Public land doesn’t mean you can just walk in and do what you want when you want. People, organizations and clubs make contract/rent or lease said property at times for private use and if given permission by the authority that has stewardship of the land precludes your public rights during the contracted times/dates. A simple analogy: You cannot walk into a gym in a public school and use the facilities when someone or a group has made contract for its use even though it is public property.
Dennis
As usual, requirements vary based on the agency responsible managing the property.
10-16-2015, 11:35 AM
#117
It's an excellent example of something that has never happened with the clubs that I know of that operate on public land.
It's a Big World though and you can always find exceptions, rarities, anomalies, flukes, outliers, etc.
Instead of basing my core beliefs, values and opinions on the obscure, I am much better served by paying attention to what I find to be true in the mainstream, center lane.
It's a Big World though and you can always find exceptions, rarities, anomalies, flukes, outliers, etc.
Instead of basing my core beliefs, values and opinions on the obscure, I am much better served by paying attention to what I find to be true in the mainstream, center lane.
Yes, most clubs are good stewards when it comes to using public property. Unfortunately, there will always be a few exceptions.
10-16-2015, 08:02 PM
#118
They didn't like that.
Then they said I wasn't allowed to practice on the outdoor 3-D foam targets. I said "What the #ell is a target good for EXCEPT practice?"
Now I shoot at home instead.
10-16-2015, 08:28 PM
#119
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Form a new club if you have a new idea. Hopefully, others see things your way and you all actually like hanging out together. Enough others, at least, to cover costs in a sustainable way. There's just so many branches off the trunk of the tree of model aircraft.
10-17-2015, 06:05 AM
#120
Dennis
Dennis
10-17-2015, 08:12 AM
#121
The Army Corps of Engineers were but one example of stewardship of public trust. All you mention are also stewards of the public trust so the flavor of the post refers to all instead of naming each. Even a private entity can be given stewardship over public lands through contracts to maintain and regulate usage. Prime example is a club near Sarasota Florida that fly's on top of an old landfill. The facility was build and upgraded by local government that oversees the old landfill with public funds. The club/members were given exclusive rights to use the facilities. There is a automated gate that restricts access via a card entry system for members and guests only. I have a good friend who is a member and I have flown as his guest. When I arrive at the locked gate I phone him and he has to come down to let me in. Public land, public funds restricted use to club members and guests only through contract. No public access.
Dennis
Dennis
Dennis
Dennis
10-17-2015, 08:33 AM
#122
Dennis
10-17-2015, 08:50 AM
#123
When I used the term stewardship I meant also the same things you mentioned in your post. I was re-enforcing your point of including those entities you mentioned. Why you have your knickers in a knot is beyond me. At no time has anyone suggested discrimination why you would throw that in the mix is a bit troubling. Dennis
10-19-2015, 01:07 PM
#124
First off I want to apologize that I didn't get right to this thread to clean it up. I was away from my keyboard over they weekend so I didn't seen the mess that this thread had become, and I had to attend a funeral this morning so it was later this afternoon before I could get into this this thread to clean it up. So....... with that being said, many of you will now notice a huge chunk of the last part of this thread have disappeared. I have gone in and simply deleted all the off topic BS that was going in here. It's amazing to me that there is one (or maybe two, but for now just one) person that is supposed to be an adult that gets in here on our forums and acts more like a junior high school kid. Quite honestly I think I would embarrassed if I acted that way here on the forums. But let me say this, it's going to stop here and now as I'm sick and tired of dealing with it. The next time I start seeing childish behavior like this I'm going to start banning people. Period. So I think I would take a hard look at how you want to behave in our forums. If you can't get into a discussion here without it turning into a fight then I suggest that you simply refrain from getting into the discussions, otherwise you may find yourself in a world of hurt. Now for those that say they are tired of dealing with a certain person and their actions on RCU, it's a very simple solution. Put them on your ignore list. That solves all of your problems with that person. From that point forward you will never ever see any more posts, replies, quotes, or PM's from that person ever again. Problem solved.
But I would suggest that you guys figure something out to avoid these kind of fights in the AMA forum in the future because they simply have no place here on RCU.
Ken
But I would suggest that you guys figure something out to avoid these kind of fights in the AMA forum in the future because they simply have no place here on RCU.
Ken
10-19-2015, 01:09 PM
#125
1. Ok I am happy that assumption I made is cleared up so now that you mention it what kind of airplanes/flying do you actually like Ken?
2. I certainly do not care to look back through crash 99s threads, so I see it as just one mans opinion and opinion are just that. Nothing to get emotional about.
3. You may surly never participate in a discussion but that does not necessarily mean you are neutral about the subject matter and swaying on the fence about things either, fact is from the sidelines of this thread your threat of shutdown came across bias, plain and simple, anyway JMO and nothing more.
Bob
2. I certainly do not care to look back through crash 99s threads, so I see it as just one mans opinion and opinion are just that. Nothing to get emotional about.
3. You may surly never participate in a discussion but that does not necessarily mean you are neutral about the subject matter and swaying on the fence about things either, fact is from the sidelines of this thread your threat of shutdown came across bias, plain and simple, anyway JMO and nothing more.
Bob
I'm not going to drag this thread off topic answering your questions. I'll send you a PM with my answers.
Ken