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Are you ready to register your aircraft?

Old 10-21-2015, 05:13 AM
  #326  
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Originally Posted by rm1963 View Post
I think that the ; clubs,club officers,and title holders of the club's flying area; should be concerned about there liability on
these issues. The legal beagles always go to where the most $$$ lives! The AMA insurance won't go far in today's world.
It costs a lot of money to prove a case of not my problem!
Absolutely if we were not incorporated I would not serve as a club officer.

Mike
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:21 AM
  #327  
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
US Secretary of Transportation Anthony Foxx did all the talking. Why so if his subordinate, the Administrator of FAA who happened to be in attendance, is singularly the cognizant authority for this? Seems to me that the Secretary of DOT deems the impact of this issue has scope beyond the purview of just one of the agencies in his Department and is taking action accordingly.
The FAA is charged with writing and enforcement of aviation regulations. The DOT cannot do it without them, it would be against the law.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:26 AM
  #328  
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Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
Umm... The FAA is an agency within the DOT. And when the Section 336 question was asked they cleverly dodged it by saying that registration is not regulation!!
But it will take regulation to enforce the registration, else it means nothing. With the regulation it means next to nothing because the same idiots flying in airport approach zones would never know to register and probably not care if they did know. A perfectly idiot solution. No effort to educate or anything meaningful at all.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:51 AM
  #329  
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Task Force To Develop Drone-Registration Rules
By Mary Grady
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A task force comprising 25 to 30 representatives from industry and government will be formed to develop a registration process for drones, U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx and FAA Administrator Michael Huerta announced today in Washington. The group will advise the department regarding which drones would be exempt from registration due to a low safety risk. They also will explore options for a registration system that will simplify the process for commercial operators. The task force has a deadline of Nov. 20 to deliver its report to federal officials. Foxx said he hopes to have a system in place before Christmas, when it's expected that up to a million droneswill be given as gifts.
“Registering unmanned aircraft will help build a culture of accountability and responsibility, especially with new users who have no experience operating in the U.S. aviation system,” Foxx said. “It will help protect public safety in the air and on the ground.” In the last year, pilot reports to the FAA of drone sightings doubled. “These reports signal a troubling trend,” Huerta said. “Registration will help make sure that operators know the rules and remain accountable to the public for flying their unmanned aircraft responsibly. When they don’t fly safely, they’ll know there will be consequences.” Foxx said those who fail to register their drones will be subject to penalties.
A range of industry groups filed statements in support of the announcement, and will serve on the task force. The groups include the Air Line Pilots Association, Helicopter Association International, the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, the Academy of Model Aircraft, and more. While the task force is working, the FAA will continue its “aggressive education and outreach efforts,” according to the DOT news release. The agency also will continue “to take strong enforcement action against egregious violators.”

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Old 10-21-2015, 05:54 AM
  #330  
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Originally Posted by stevekott View Post
I always amazes me that this country's answer to someones bad behavior is to pass a law. A law that will impose itself on only the people that are the least likely to violate it.


It's like jumping on a bandwagon to limit the numbers of bullets a magazine can hold. Like that law is going to make a difference to anything or anyone. There is already a pretty specific law against MURDER. Yet it does not stop bad people from murdering
Oh please.. This country has had more mass shootings in t last 10 years than the rest of the civilized world combined, and the majority of those mass shootings where done with firearms purchased legally under current law

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...heir-guns.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ass-shootings/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...united-states/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...heir_guns.html
http://csgv.org/blog/2013/mass-shootings-by-good-guys/

A big part of the reason these killers where able to kill so many was having large capacity magazines and rapid firing semi-automatic arms that allowed them to keep shoring rapidly. Limiting magazine capacity and firing rate might have forced them to pause giving somebody a chance to fight back.

But thanks to the efforts of the NRA nothing gets done and kids keep dying. Its sad really because the NRA used to be about responsible gun use and supportive of reasonable regulations (they supported the 1968 firearms act among others) but then somewhere they went off the deep end. Their attitude is actually the worst enemy of the rights of responsible gun owners as it just feeds the argument. I used to be an avid target shooter and left the hobby due to these pervasive bad attitudes and disregard for the victims of these killings.

Last edited by jharkin; 10-21-2015 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:05 AM
  #331  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
But it will take regulation to enforce the registration, else it means nothing. With the regulation it means next to nothing because the same idiots flying in airport approach zones would never know to register and probably not care if they did know. A perfectly idiot solution. No effort to educate or anything meaningful at all.
Remember when I said that an online computerized test should be set up for all persons wishing to fly Quad copters (Drones) at anyplace but a designated R/C flying site (any designated flying site not just AMA) and they be issued, upon successful completion, a certificate with their Registration number,to be printed out and carried when ever flying a Quad. This could also be mandatory to Purchase a Quad(DRONE). Even simpler than a back round check to buy a fire arm.

If it does come down to FAA Registration I don't see how Most Quads will display the Required 12" N Numbers.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:24 AM
  #332  
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Originally Posted by rm1963 View Post
I think that the ; clubs,club officers,and title holders of the club's flying area; should be concerned about there liability on
these issues. The legal beagles always go to where the most $$$ lives! The AMA insurance won't go far in today's world.
It costs a lot of money to prove a case of not my problem!
Not sure I follow your comments...what do you mean "liability on these issues" ? In what situations do you see any leagle beagles being involved. Also..do you realize how much coverage is afforded under AMA policies..and additional amounts to club officers? I don't get the legal involvement here and how a club or its officers would be liable regarding the above noted topic.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:26 AM
  #333  
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Mr. Jharkin,

Hope you know more about aircraft matters than firearms? Changing magazine sizes, ammo types and firearms styles makes no sense. Education and strictly enforced penaltys (no plea bargins) and strict sentencing guidelines would go a long way in solving the problem. Same goes for irrisponsible drone operators We can discuss this debate forever but fact is the justice system often lets us down on many serious issues. Examples should be made..............
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:44 AM
  #334  
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Absolutely if we were not incorporated I would not serve as a club officer.
Incorporation limits the liability of a (for-profit) corporation's shareholders. It does nothing to protect the officers of an organization against either civil or criminal liability.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:49 AM
  #335  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
Incorporation limits the liability of a (for-profit) corporation's shareholders. It does nothing to protect the officers of an organization against either civil or criminal liability.
Thanks for your concern but according to our people who actually know the law. Our personal assets cannot be touched.
Your mileage may vary. In this day and age it pays to CYA

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 10-21-2015 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:50 AM
  #336  
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Originally Posted by Gizmo-RCU View Post
Mr. Jharkin,

Hope you know more about aircraft matters than firearms? Changing magazine sizes, ammo types and firearms styles makes no sense. Education and strictly enforced penaltys (no plea bargins) and strict sentencing guidelines would go a long way in solving the problem. Same goes for irrisponsible drone operators We can discuss this debate forever but fact is the justice system often lets us down on many serious issues. Examples should be made..............
I agree with you gizmo I have several firearms including ar15s and 1911s and non of them have went out and killed anyone I also own several rc aircraft and I fly responsibly its not the device its the person behind that device
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:59 AM
  #337  
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Now that we've all vented, does everybody feel better LOL
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:07 AM
  #338  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
Thanksfor your concern but according to our people who actually know the law. Our personal assets cannot be touched.
Your mileage may vary. In this day and age it pays to CVA

Mike
I've been a lawyer for 45 years. I know of no state in which the personal assets of a corporation's officers "cannot be touched." All that a plaintiff has to do is have a jury find that the officer did something negligent (or which constitutes some other tort). This is just as true of an officer of a club that's incorporated as it is of one that isn't. But believe whatever you want, if it makes you happy.
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:16 AM
  #339  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn View Post
I've been a lawyer for 45 years. I know of no state in which the personal assets of a corporation's officers "cannot be touched." All that a plaintiff has to do is have a jury find that the officer did something negligent (or which constitutes some other tort). This is just as true of an officer of a club that's incorporated as it is of one that isn't. But believe whatever you want, if it makes you happy.
Thanks. While I'm sure anything is possible. I'm OK with "possible" situations as well as "improbable" ones. and don't live my life in fear of them..
Once again thanks for your concern.

Mike
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:49 AM
  #340  
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And, once again, those that know little to nothing about modern turbine engines are trying to convince us that a quad going through the front fan is no different than a hummingbird. Having worked in aviation most of my life, I know a bit about turbine engines. Let's look at a turbine and what a quad can do to it:
1) A turbine engine is a finely balanced mechanism, being balanced at least 100X more precisely than a car tire
2) The clearance between the end of the turbine fan blades and the surrounding shroud is the equivalent of a piece of standard printer paper
3) The front fan blades on the GE90 and GE9X engines used on the 777-200, 300 and freighter as well as the GEnx 1B used on the 787 and 2B used on the 747-8 are composite, using carbon fiber as the main material. The latest GE90 engine use 16 blades while the GEnx uses 18.
Now, what will happen if a plastic/aluminum/CF quad with a camera hits that front fan? With blades spinning in excess of 1000MPH, do we really think a CF blade will stand up to the impact of a 1Kg quad? All it would take is for one blade to chip to unbalance the engine and cause it to self destruct. Would it down the plane? Depends on if the engine case holds the parts inside or not. If we look back at the Rolls Royce turbine that exploded on a Quantas A380, the case didn't hold everything inside and the aluminum wing and it's leading edge wire harness were pretty badly chopped up. Since the 787 and 777X both have composite wings, how bad would the damage be if the turbine self destructed due to a quad strike? Then again, how bad would the damage be to the wing, slat or flap from a direct impact with all of the surfaces extended?

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 10-21-2015 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:00 AM
  #341  
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Ok, what about a Canadian goose or Pelican?

Nobody is thinking hummingbird when they think about aircraft damage.

FWIW I've seen a pelican go through a T-56 first hand and know what kind of damage it can do.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:07 AM
  #342  
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So what does this have to do with registration?
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:15 AM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
And, once again, those that know little to nothing about modern turbine engines are trying to convince us that a quad going through the front fan is no different than a hummingbird. Having worked in aviation most of my life, I know a bit about turbine engines. Let's look at a turbine and what a quad can do to it:
1) A turbine engine is a finely balanced mechanism, being balanced at least 100X more precisely than a car tire
2) The clearance between the end of the turbine fan blades and the surrounding shroud is the equivalent of a piece of standard printer paper
3) The front fan blades on the GE90 and GE9X engines used on the 777-200, 300 and freighter as well as the GEnx 1B used on the 787 and 2B used on the 747-8 are composite, using carbon fiber as the main material. The latest GE90 engine use 16 blades while the GEnx uses 18.
Now, what will happen if a plastic/aluminum/CF quad with a camera hits that front fan? With blades spinning in excess of 1000MPH, do we really think a CF blade will stand up to the impact of a 1Kg quad? All it would take is for one blade to chip to unbalance the engine and cause it to self destruct. Would it down the plane? Depends on if the engine case holds the parts inside or not. If we look back at the Rolls Royce turbine that exploded on an A380, the case didn't hold everything inside and the wing and it's leading edge wire harness were pretty badly chopped up. Since the 787 and 777X both have composite wings, how bad would the damage be if the turbine self destructed?



Don't really have an answer to your question. Guess nobody does until it actually happens, but I have over 7,000 hours in turbine / jet engine powered aircraft, not to mention thousands of hours in recip's. Have seen broken blades, cracked blades and even in a GE engine, with blades installed backwards. None of these engines came apart or self destructed.

With the GE engine " CF7002D2 ", it ran perfectly normal until you tried to climb above 35,000 feet, then it would flame out. With numerous attempts to climb above 35,000 feet, each and every attempt the engine would flame out. Never did get an explanation from GE on how two or three turbine blades got installed backwards.

Also remember viewing the testing of get engines with the engineers firing frozen chickens through the engines and none of those engines ever failed.

Perhaps if it has not already happened the engine manufacturers should test their engines by firing Quad / Drones through them. Then and only then I assume that we will get the real answer. But if the engines did fail and destruct and if that information was ever released to the public, just imagine what would happen when the people that want to do harm to us, viewed the tests ?

Personally speaking I think that this has become a very sad country with the law abiding citizens paying the price for what is caused by a few idiots.

We also have to think back to what happened in New York with the " Miracle on the Hudson ". Who really knows how many birds those engines ate. Not enough time for restarts, if they could be restarted and luckily the engines did not come apart to damage flight control systems.

Last edited by Granpooba; 10-21-2015 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:26 AM
  #344  
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OK see the connection now. Per Mythbusters, though their stuff is certainly not definitive, they saw no difference with frozen or thawed chickens, it was mostly the size and mass that did the damage. Tested this on more than just a thin windshield, but not a jet engine. Still I don't think the hardness of the material will make a large difference.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:28 AM
  #345  
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I just occurred to me. Perhaps just as you cannot prevent birds from flying in front of an airliner, you cannot prevent birdbrain drone pilots from flying their drones in front of airliners.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:28 AM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
So what does this have to do with registration?
Perhaps nothing ! Just maybe people are just venting and using their rights to " Freedom of Speech " ! Careful now, even that right may be taken away someday.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:28 AM
  #347  
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That is perhaps a simple IQ test should be passed before you can buy a drone.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:47 AM
  #348  
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My point is carbon fiber isn't the same as the metals used in previous engines and airframes. If a RR turbine can explode in flight due to becoming unbalanced due to a bad bearing, what can a quad do to a CF fan and, more importantly, the CF wings and lifting devices installed on those wings? How much of an impact would it take to crack the surface and start a CF panel's delaminating? Once that starts, how long until the panel fails completely? I know aircraft structures are tested for flexing stress but I haven't seen anywhere where they are tested for impacts.
Granpooba, how fast was that engine running that you saw the frozen birds fired into? Ground idle, flight settings or full throttle? Engine speed can make a difference on the results. Think car hitting concrete barrier at 30mph and then at 100mph. Faster is going to give a totally different result than slower. Since the manufacturer doesn't normally give the testing parameters, we will probably never know

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 10-21-2015 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:02 AM
  #349  
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The FAA requires testing of birds, hail and water through the turbines. They are also required to insure if an engine does let go that minimal to no damage is caused to the rest of the aircraft.

Last edited by TimJ; 10-21-2015 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:08 AM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
That is perhaps a simple IQ test should be passed before you can buy a drone.
Naw, even an IQ test can be fudged. LOL Especially if it was given on a computer. Look at the hacking that is going on in todays world. Just this morning I viewed on the TV news that 3 students hacked into their schools computer to change their schedules and grades. Now, they are facing about 8 years in prison. Guess they failed their IQ test, huh Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh well, that's 3 fellows that will not be flying Drones ............. LOL
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