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11-09-2015, 10:30 AM
#1077
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Hi Mike , In my answer to your question , I put fourth the fact that a better view of the aircraft is afforded by LOS flight , that right there IS the answer to it . And if you add that according to the AMA there is no safe way to do FPV without at least a spotter having LOS of the aircraft in question , you can plainly see that non LOS is inherently more dangerous due to that limited view . I understand and applaud your reasonableness and responsibility for not flying non LOS "over or close to anyone , property , towns , villages , cities" but the fact remains that beyond LOS FPV is not an AMA condoned mode of flight and it sometimes only takes the breaking of one rule to have misfortune rise up and bite your backside . And then your not covered cause you flew outside of AMA doc. #550 . I will 100% agree that the odds are statistically tiny of an FPV flown over woods to do insurance claimable damage but where there is even a .00001% risk of incident while stepping outside the rules would be enough reason right there to cause me to not do it , and keep my aircraft in my sight at all times . Yea sure , my old guy circle flying ol warbird just may go out of control and take someone out before my very eyes , it's a risk with any remote controlled object . Thing is that if God forbid it ever does happen , it will have happened while I was following ALL of the AMA's flight directives to the letter , such that the insurance will have no choice other than to cover whatever damages are judged due to the crash .
PS , I'm glad you don't see my post as an attack on either you or FPV , cause I do believe AMA #550 condoned FPV would likely be a whole lot of fun . We do disagree about the beyond LOS thing , and that's ok with me , I just hope you ain't the one that has the oops that the news and political machine decides to make an example of . I do believe it is coming , that any day now were gonna hear news of a full scale with a hobbyist's drone planted in the windshield . A little foamy like you describe ? tiny tiny chance of any damage for sure . But some 5 or 10 pound quad through the windshield of some Cessna , and stuffs gonna get real ugly real quick .....
I guess I just don't agree that non-los is a big deal if done responsibly. When I am flying anything but FPV, I follow the AMA guidlines. When I fly FPV, i'm flying with what I deem to myself as safe and responsible flight. I'm not sure what else to say, lol. I fly the way I fly and it does not worry me in the least. I do understand what you are saying, but I guess it's worth it to be able to fly FPV.
"old guy circle flying" lol. I fly that way also. I'm about 75% finished with a TF .60 Gold Edition Corsair kit. I have glow planes, foam planes, quads, helis, a truck, an FPV quad (small 250 size) and FPV foam glider.
I also hope i do not have an oops!!
I guess we will see what happens. I do find it very hard to believe that the end result will be that traditional RC will have to be registered, but it's the Gov't, so who knows.
I agree with your last sentence. An actual incident like that and it will be bad.
Last edited by mike1974; 11-09-2015 at 10:32 AM.
11-09-2015, 10:54 AM
#1078
i guess i just don't agree that non-los is a big deal if done responsibly. When i am flying anything but fpv, i follow the ama guidlines.
therein lies the problem.
when i fly fpv, i'm flying with what i deem to myself as safe and responsible flight. I'm not sure what else to say, lol.
not much else to say. The folks who cannot follow basic rules are the ones who ruin it for those that do.
i fly the way i fly and it does not worry me in the least. I do understand what you are saying, but i guess it's worth it to be able to fly fpv.
and that brings us to where we are today. Thanks for summation.
11-09-2015, 11:25 AM
#1079
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Hi Chris,
with all do respect, you are just so wrong. Your mad because i'm not a perfect little sheeple that follows every single guideline by the AMA.
1. "Therin lies the problem" What problem? I fly safely and responsibly with a spotter in a remote area. Just because I don't follow AMA guidlines does not equate to me not flying safely or endangering anyone or anything.
2. "not much else to say. The folks who cannot follow basic rules are the ones who ruin it for those that do". What rules? I see guidlines and suggestions. Exactly what have I done to ruin anything for anyone? Just because I don't follow AMA to a "T" when flying FPV?
3. "and that brings us to where we are today. Thanks for summation". No Chris, what brings us to where we are today are the idiots flying over people, flying over homes, flying in state parks, flying around property, over highways, flying by airports and other aircraft, trying to get video and impeding fire fighting operations. Those are the people ruining it for everyone.
with all do respect, you are just so wrong. Your mad because i'm not a perfect little sheeple that follows every single guideline by the AMA.
1. "Therin lies the problem" What problem? I fly safely and responsibly with a spotter in a remote area. Just because I don't follow AMA guidlines does not equate to me not flying safely or endangering anyone or anything.
2. "not much else to say. The folks who cannot follow basic rules are the ones who ruin it for those that do". What rules? I see guidlines and suggestions. Exactly what have I done to ruin anything for anyone? Just because I don't follow AMA to a "T" when flying FPV?
3. "and that brings us to where we are today. Thanks for summation". No Chris, what brings us to where we are today are the idiots flying over people, flying over homes, flying in state parks, flying around property, over highways, flying by airports and other aircraft, trying to get video and impeding fire fighting operations. Those are the people ruining it for everyone.
11-09-2015, 11:53 AM
#1080
hi chris,
with all do respect, you are just so wrong. Your mad because i'm not a perfect little sheeple that follows every single guideline by the ama.
1. "therin lies the problem" what problem? I fly safely and responsibly with a spotter in a remote area. Just because i don't follow ama guidlines does not equate to me not flying safely or endangering anyone or anything.
every rogue drone operator feels the say way.
2. "not much else to say. The folks who cannot follow basic rules are the ones who ruin it for those that do". what rules? I see guidlines and suggestions. Exactly what have i done to ruin anything for anyone? Just because i don't follow ama to a "t" when flying fpv?
the ama safety code is a mandatory requirement, not an option. You agreed to follow it when you joined the ama.
3. "and that brings us to where we are today. Thanks for summation". no chris, what brings us to where we are today are the idiots flying over people, flying over homes, flying in state parks, flying around property, over highways, flying by airports and other aircraft, trying to get video and impeding fire fighting operations. Those are the people ruining it for everyone.
if you don't follow the ama safety code then you're one of them.
with all do respect, you are just so wrong. Your mad because i'm not a perfect little sheeple that follows every single guideline by the ama.
1. "therin lies the problem" what problem? I fly safely and responsibly with a spotter in a remote area. Just because i don't follow ama guidlines does not equate to me not flying safely or endangering anyone or anything.
every rogue drone operator feels the say way.
2. "not much else to say. The folks who cannot follow basic rules are the ones who ruin it for those that do". what rules? I see guidlines and suggestions. Exactly what have i done to ruin anything for anyone? Just because i don't follow ama to a "t" when flying fpv?
the ama safety code is a mandatory requirement, not an option. You agreed to follow it when you joined the ama.
3. "and that brings us to where we are today. Thanks for summation". no chris, what brings us to where we are today are the idiots flying over people, flying over homes, flying in state parks, flying around property, over highways, flying by airports and other aircraft, trying to get video and impeding fire fighting operations. Those are the people ruining it for everyone.
if you don't follow the ama safety code then you're one of them.
11-09-2015, 12:54 PM
#1081
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I get it, the AMA safety guidlines are like scripture to you. That's cool and I respect that. I believe that I can fly FPV safely and responsibly without help from the AMA safety guidlines. Been safely flying RC for 27 years and full scale for 12.
Because I go to private land in the middle of nowhere southwestern NY and fly a foam glider, FPV, with spotter, for 20 minutes over nothing but dense forest and open fields I'm ruining it for everybody? Sorry, gotta disagree.
Because I go to private land in the middle of nowhere southwestern NY and fly a foam glider, FPV, with spotter, for 20 minutes over nothing but dense forest and open fields I'm ruining it for everybody? Sorry, gotta disagree.
11-09-2015, 01:13 PM
#1082
Banned
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The original funding was in part for educational programs, which to date have been pretty successful. The money wasn't spent to necessarily change one thing, it's something that had to be done to have a seat at the table, and participate in the process, and hopefully have a say in things that could seriously affect the hobby. As of now, nothing has been proposed that has caused a significant adverse harm to the hobby. And yes, the lack of this can be seen as a positive. For some.
11-09-2015, 01:16 PM
#1083
I get it, the AMA safety guidlines are like scripture to you. That's cool and I respect that. I believe that I can fly FPV safely and responsibly without help from the AMA safety guidlines. Been safely flying RC for 27 years and full scale for 12.
Because I go to private land in the middle of nowhere southwestern NY and fly a foam glider, FPV, with spotter, for 20 minutes over nothing but dense forest and open fields I'm ruining it for everybody? Sorry, gotta disagree.
Because I go to private land in the middle of nowhere southwestern NY and fly a foam glider, FPV, with spotter, for 20 minutes over nothing but dense forest and open fields I'm ruining it for everybody? Sorry, gotta disagree.
11-09-2015, 01:26 PM
#1084
The original funding was in part for educational programs, which to date have been pretty successful. The money wasn't spent to necessarily change one thing, it's something that had to be done to have a seat at the table, and participate in the process, and hopefully have a say in things that could seriously affect the hobby. As of now, nothing has been proposed that has caused a significant adverse harm to the hobby. And yes, the lack of this can be seen as a positive. For some.
Note: The above is hyperbole.
11-09-2015, 01:35 PM
#1086
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The original funding was in part for educational programs, which to date have been pretty successful. The money wasn't spent to necessarily change one thing, it's something that had to be done to have a seat at the table, and participate in the process, and hopefully have a say in things that could seriously affect the hobby. As of now, nothing has been proposed that has caused a significant adverse harm to the hobby. And yes, the lack of this can be seen as a positive. For some.
Mike
11-09-2015, 01:37 PM
#1090
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11-09-2015, 01:46 PM
#1091
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11-09-2015, 01:49 PM
#1092
I get it, the AMA safety guidlines are like scripture to you. That's cool and I respect that. I believe that I can fly FPV safely and responsibly without help from the AMA safety guidlines. Been safely flying RC for 27 years and full scale for 12.
Because I go to private land in the middle of nowhere southwestern NY and fly a foam glider, FPV, with spotter, for 20 minutes over nothing but dense forest and open fields I'm ruining it for everybody? Sorry, gotta disagree.
Because I go to private land in the middle of nowhere southwestern NY and fly a foam glider, FPV, with spotter, for 20 minutes over nothing but dense forest and open fields I'm ruining it for everybody? Sorry, gotta disagree.
For me , the AMA safety rules are best adhered to cause like I said earlier , I can't afford to "self insure" and so I'm not about to go doing anything that would jeopardize my coverage . In the situation you describe , sure , your out in the "middle of nowhere" and the chance of anything happening is slim to none , but for many other unrestricted FPVers (Like your city brethren, for instance) the chance of incident rises exponentially just due to location alone . And you can bet that for every one guy like you whose at least attempting to practice somewhat safe FPV , there are several who care not about any sort of safety whatsoever and are just out for their Utoob footage to "break the internet" with . I will not demonize you for stepping slightly over the line anymore than I'd chastise a friend for going 10MPH over the speed limit , cause LOTS of folks do . But I will gently remind of the insurance adjuster's REAL job , to "adjust" his company's liability down to the lowest possible dollar , to look for ways to deny payout altogether , and once even the slightest step over the line is found , it's the adjuster's dream come true , an instant avenue for denial of coverage .
11-09-2015, 01:54 PM
#1093
Because when they break those rules there is judicial GOLD to be made in fines & fees associated with the infraction . It ain't about "justice" , , , ain't been for a long time ..... It's all about the Benjamins now Crispy !
11-09-2015, 01:54 PM
#1094
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How free are we really when we can no longer use personal judgement; and we have to obey things that make sense only to those who developed the nosensical regulations anyway?
Rules and laws are already in place to convict criminals interfereing with aircraft/airports. Thats the point.
Last edited by pointclicksave; 11-09-2015 at 01:57 PM.
11-09-2015, 02:01 PM
#1095
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I guess if that many people are breaking said rule, then maybe it's the rule that is too restrictive and needs to be amended instead of trying to change the masses behavior. As far as I can see, the only way FPV is going away is an all out ban. It is immensely fun and the technology is just so awesome! It is only going to get better and less expensive. Maybe they should work with the FPV crowd instead of against them. I don't see FPV doing anything but growing.
For the record I am not against the AMA. We are just not on the same page when it comes to FPV.
11-09-2015, 02:05 PM
#1096
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For me , the AMA safety rules are best adhered to cause like I said earlier , I can't afford to "self insure" and so I'm not about to go doing anything that would jeopardize my coverage . In the situation you describe , sure , your out in the "middle of nowhere" and the chance of anything happening is slim to none , but for many other unrestricted FPVers (Like your city brethren, for instance) the chance of incident rises exponentially just due to location alone . And you can bet that for every one guy like you whose at least attempting to practice somewhat safe FPV , there are several who care not about any sort of safety whatsoever and are just out for their Utoob footage to "break the internet" with . I will not demonize you for stepping slightly over the line anymore than I'd chastise a friend for going 10MPH over the speed limit , cause LOTS of folks do . But I will gently remind of the insurance adjuster's REAL job , to "adjust" his company's liability down to the lowest possible dollar , to look for ways to deny payout altogether , and once even the slightest step over the line is found , it's the adjuster's dream come true , an instant avenue for denial of coverage .
11-09-2015, 02:34 PM
#1099
Banned
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Answer the question was the money spent hiring a PR firm along with entrenching Hanson in DC "educational spending" ? Just how was all this in your words "successful" ?
Now c'mon, I've already answered the basic question here and in other threads where you keep asking it over and over. Only this time you've added a few falsehoods to it for the added ZING factor no doubt. Are you expecting the answer to change somewhere along the way? I have no overall problem withe money that has been spent. As noted previously, I would have liked to have seen a more specific accounting for exactly where the money was going, how the process was going to be tracked, some pulse checks along the way, and some way to measure success or failure, or parts thereof. That's my wish list, and mine only. That I didn't get everything on there doesn't make me turn around and criticize every step the AMA has, and will take.
Mike
Now c'mon, I've already answered the basic question here and in other threads where you keep asking it over and over. Only this time you've added a few falsehoods to it for the added ZING factor no doubt. Are you expecting the answer to change somewhere along the way? I have no overall problem withe money that has been spent. As noted previously, I would have liked to have seen a more specific accounting for exactly where the money was going, how the process was going to be tracked, some pulse checks along the way, and some way to measure success or failure, or parts thereof. That's my wish list, and mine only. That I didn't get everything on there doesn't make me turn around and criticize every step the AMA has, and will take.
Mike
Yep money spent has now got us registration. No. Wrong. Incorrect. Not true.
"...having Hanson as a full time lobbyist.....entrenching Hanson in DC...." No. Wrong. Incorrect. Not true.
I think you have convinced yourself that spending any type of money was somehow going to stop everything/anything from happening. I hope that's not the case, but your repeated comments would seem to indicate otherwise. I don't mean this in the way you will take it, but I don't think you have any idea of what it takes being involved in a process this big, with so many players, when dealing with the federal govt. Although I've said it before, I'll say it again, this whole process was going to happen regardless of the approach the AMA took. Nothing they did or didn't do would have stopped it, no amount of money would have stopped it. Finally, the thought that just by turning away from quads/MR/drones, the AMA would have avoided any of these issues is so painfully naive and so wildly absent logic, it's painful to see it in writing. "Ban them is almost as silly a comment as I'll fly when I want and where I want and how I want, it's my right!
And to add to the fire and incoming flames, the AMA will continue to spend money on this issue. Got no problem with that either. Rarely does everyone involved in the politician process come out happy, getting everything they want. While you seem intent of complaining about the past (a nonproductive endeavor if I've ever seen it), criticizing every step the AMA has taken, and even responding to leaks and rumors as if they are fact, I'm looking at the long game and doing those things I hope will affect the outcome in a positive way. I'm fairly certain things will not happen that will change this hobby overnight, nor be the end of the hobby as we know it. I haven't seen anything yet that would lead me to that conclusion. Could be wrong, might be wrong, and I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong regardless.
*forgot to mention, there have been two PR firms involved.
11-09-2015, 02:37 PM
#1100
Banned
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These AMA safety guidelines are guidelines not rules. The majority of the most recent are a campaign to enlighten those new to the hobby and the only consequence they carry for MEMBERS is that of not getting paid by AMA insurance when you destroy personal property when flying outside of them.
How free are we really when we can no longer use personal judgement; and we have to obey things that make sense only to those who developed the nosensical regulations anyway?
Rules and laws are already in place to convict criminals interfereing with aircraft/airports. Thats the point.
How free are we really when we can no longer use personal judgement; and we have to obey things that make sense only to those who developed the nosensical regulations anyway?
Rules and laws are already in place to convict criminals interfereing with aircraft/airports. Thats the point.