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Are you ready to register your aircraft?

Old 11-22-2015, 09:10 AM
  #1701  
HoundDog
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Have a lot of Canadians in the Arizona clubs. Winter visitors (Snow Birds) What are they going to do? How will the FAA require their sUAV's to be Identified? All Questions the powers that be will have to consider before implementing any Registration.
Old 11-22-2015, 09:34 AM
  #1702  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
Have a lot of Canadians in the Arizona clubs. Winter visitors (Snow Birds) What are they going to do? How will the FAA require their sUAV's to be Identified? All Questions the powers that be will have to consider before implementing any Registration.
They could wrap Molson Beer Labels around their tail feathers, Eh?
Old 11-22-2015, 10:08 AM
  #1703  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
"Spirit and intent" that's a good one. Maybe in the actual recommendations they will use " kinda sorta ".

Mike
Rumor has it there are at least two lines that end with, "like....totallly".
Old 11-22-2015, 10:13 AM
  #1704  
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Originally Posted by Lamoilleriver
They could wrap Molson Beer Labels around their tail feathers, Eh?
Hahaha...best line in the thread hand down. Eh?
Old 11-22-2015, 10:18 AM
  #1705  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Unfortunately, that is just not supported by the language being used by the only people that matter, the FAA. Just yesterday they said that the group was to develop "a process for owners of small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) to register their aircraft."

I don't see "drones" or "multi-rotors" mentioned anywhere in that. In fact, I'll remind you that the FAA defines aircraft as "any contrivance invented, used, or designed to navigate, or fly in, the air. 49 U.S.C. 40102, see also 14 C.F.R. 1.1." They went on to add that "Although model aircraft may take many forms, at a base level model aircraft are clearly 'invented, used, or designed' to fly in the air."

FAA has consistently used sUAS and "aircraft" in the context of this registration discussion. Any belief that there is some hidden spirit or intent that it applies to a smaller subset is simply not supported by FAA official statements.
Yup, FAA's position is pretty clear and predictable. This being an AMA discussion forum, I'll ask what position AMA took on the matter.

(a) Did they support modelers (members only, of course that's a given) that have supported AMA with their dues for many decades and argue for exempting fixed wing?

(b) Did they hold to their current marketing obsession and go with the "we're all in it together" shtick so as to not offend the droners?

(c) Did they prevail?

We'll have the answers in due time when the minutes of the task group are made available. I'm asking now to get insight into what was/is expected of AMA's representation of our interests in the issue.
Old 11-22-2015, 11:37 AM
  #1706  
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley
YI'll ask what position AMA took on the matter.

(a) Did they support modelers (members only, of course that's a given) that have supported AMA with their dues for many decades and argue for exempting fixed wing?

(b) Did they hold to their current marketing obsession and go with the "we're all in it together" shtick so as to not offend the droners?

(c) Did they prevail?

We'll have the answers in due time when the minutes of the task group are made available. I'm asking now to get insight into what was/is expected of AMA's representation of our interests in the issue.
I'm curious as well. The only thing I'd add is that we can give someone piles of money, and they in turn can argue to their heart's content, but that does not equate to being effective. They spent $1,000,000 of our money to get a specific result. They're spending more (amount unknown) to sue the FAA over that agency's interpretation of the language AMA requested in section 336. So they're spending more money to get a specific result (a win in court).

When this is all said and done, it'll be interesting to see how many people think those big piles of money would have been better spent doing something else.
Old 11-22-2015, 11:41 AM
  #1707  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Rumor has it there are at least two lines that end with, "like....totallly".
Well, that would be aligned with the idea you forwarded about "spirit and intent"
Old 11-22-2015, 11:42 AM
  #1708  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Well, that would be aligned with the idea you forwarded about "spirit and intent"
like....totally!
Old 11-22-2015, 11:50 AM
  #1709  
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley
and argue for exempting fixed wing?
Hi CJ ,

Yes sir , they darned well should , and I hope they were , arguing for an exemption for "traditional model aircraft" based on only one criteria . And , no sir , I can't agree with you there , the configuration of the lifting structures shouldn't have been the defining criteria . The bottom line is that which separates us from the drones , which is , the whole LOS / Beyond LOS mode of flight thing , that is really what separates "us VS them" rather than the configuration of the aircraft itself . I say this because "traditional" model helicopters (of which I don't fly but there is an awesome group near me who does , the "NE Helicrew") aren't fixed wing , are flown LOS , and are just as traditional as our favorite old warbirds are . To me , it's just that simple , us LOS flyers aren't the problem and I hope that belonging to the CBO to get the "model aircraft exemption" penned by Imhoff (spelling ?) is all that's required to be considered "registered" . If that's as far as it goes , and in all fairness that should be the extent of it , then our hobby will remain virtually unchanged . But then , whoever said either the world or the govt. were fair ? .......
Old 11-22-2015, 01:18 PM
  #1710  
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Originally Posted by init4fun
Hi CJ ,

Yes sir , they darned well should , and I hope they were , arguing for an exemption for "traditional model aircraft" based on only one criteria . And , no sir , I can't agree with you there , the configuration of the lifting structures shouldn't have been the defining criteria . The bottom line is that which separates us from the drones , which is , the whole LOS / Beyond LOS mode of flight thing , that is really what separates "us VS them" rather than the configuration of the aircraft itself . I say this because "traditional" model helicopters (of which I don't fly but there is an awesome group near me who does , the "NE Helicrew") aren't fixed wing , are flown LOS , and are just as traditional as our favorite old warbirds are . To me , it's just that simple , us LOS flyers aren't the problem and I hope that belonging to the CBO to get the "model aircraft exemption" penned by Imhoff (spelling ?) is all that's required to be considered "registered" . If that's as far as it goes , and in all fairness that should be the extent of it , then our hobby will remain virtually unchanged . But then , whoever said either the world or the govt. were fair ? .......
Hi Init, you'right of course, and I stand corrected. I was deterred from using "traditional model aircraft" by a desire not to bridge a concurrent vexatious thread into this one, but what the heck..........some folks will remain seriously challenged by trying to define "ham sandwich."
Old 11-22-2015, 02:31 PM
  #1711  
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Safety is the issue, model aircraft(whatever shape or size) operating in airspace which places full scale aircraft and human life at risk. Am I wrong? Where was it recently where they arrested folks for pointing green lasers at aircraft, law enforcement can't enforce model aircraft flying in restricted airspace? That is where the problem is and that is where it needs to be enforced, sending LEO's to check if model aircraft are registered at a long term established flying field is a poor use of resources and does zip, nada, zero, the big goose egg, etc. increasing safety in the NAS.
Old 11-22-2015, 03:21 PM
  #1712  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
Have a lot of Canadians in the Arizona clubs. Winter visitors (Snow Birds) What are they going to do? How will the FAA require their sUAV's to be Identified? All Questions the powers that be will have to consider before implementing any Registration.
The common sense [and lowest impact] answer would be to use our AMA and Canadian equivalent numbers that have already been issued to identify who we are.
See, this doesn't need to be as difficult as brain surgery if we refuse to allow it to be..
Old 11-22-2015, 03:48 PM
  #1713  
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If i have to register anything i will join ISIS.
Old 11-22-2015, 04:33 PM
  #1714  
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Originally Posted by SigMan
If i have to register anything i will join ISIS.
That seems a little rash, SigMan Do they issue unregistered vests?
Old 11-23-2015, 08:36 AM
  #1715  
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Hav'nt been a member of a club for 10 years. Been a member of AMA for 50. The only current reason is to keep My turbine waiver current so I can occasionaly attend a jet rally. Not sure if required to register that I'll continue to travel to the rallys. Maybe I'll only get to fly with My best jet buddys out at My own place once in a while. I don't require government registration, or AMA membership to fly at My place. Just common sense people with a brain.
Old 11-23-2015, 08:48 AM
  #1716  
Chris P. Bacon
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Task Force Recommendations Final Report has been released:

http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/...t_11-21-15.pdf
Old 11-23-2015, 10:31 AM
  #1717  
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Strange they chose to ignore the collision with aircraft issue and instead focused on hitting someone on the ground. That really narrowed the exclusion possibilites. I have to wonder who was driving that concern.
Old 11-23-2015, 10:38 AM
  #1718  
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Default General Scope of Task Force Recommendations

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]UAS Registration Task Force Aviation Rulemaking Committee Recommendations Summary

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]What category of UAS is covered by the registration requirement?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]UAS that weigh under 55 pounds and above 250 grams maximum takeoff weight, and are operated outdoors in the NAS.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Do owners need to register each individual UAS they own?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]No. The registration system is owner-based, so each registrant will have a single registration number that covers any and all UAS that the registrant owns.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Is registration required at point-of-sale?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]No. Registration is mandatory prior to operation of a UAS in the NAS.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]What information is required for the registration process?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Name and street address of the registrant are required.
Mailing address, email address, telephone number, and serial number of the aircraft are optional.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Is there a citizenship requirement?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]No.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Is there a minimum age requirement?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Yes. Persons must be 13 years of age to register.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Is there a registration fee?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]No.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Is the registration system electronic or web-based?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]The system for entry of information into the database is web-based and also allows for multiple entry points, powered by an API that will enable custom apps to provide registry information to the database and receive registration numbers and certificates back from the database. Registrants can also modify their information through the web or apps.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]How does a UAS owner prove registration?

[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]A certificate of registration will be sent to the registrant at the time of registration. The certificate will be sent electronically, unless a paper copy is requested, or unless the traditional aircraft registration process is utilized. The registration certificate will contain the registrant’s name, FAA-issued registration number, and the FAA registration website that can be used by authorized users to confirm registration information. For registrants who elect to provide the serial number(s) of their aircraft to the FAA, the certificate will also contain those serial number(s). Any time a registered UAS is in operation, the operator of that UAS should be prepared to produce the certificate of registration for inspection.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Old 11-23-2015, 10:42 AM
  #1719  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill
Strange they chose to ignore the collision with aircraft issue and instead focused on hitting someone on the ground. That really narrowed the exclusion possibilites. I have to wonder who was driving that concern.
They explained why, not enough data on how much damage to an aircraft is made by an sUAV.
Old 11-23-2015, 10:44 AM
  #1720  
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Apparently the AMA was out to lunch on their meetings. Or maybe they were making the coffee. It does not look like any AMA input is in this.
Old 11-23-2015, 10:45 AM
  #1721  
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I would have like fixed wing aircraft to be exempt OR applying your AMA information on the sUAS to satisfy the registration requirements.
I think the list is reasonable for public safety and will be necessary. There will be millions of little toys added annually to the national air space.
It's web based and accessible via cell phone with an "APP".

It's the government, what could possibly go wrong?
Old 11-23-2015, 10:45 AM
  #1722  
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What Bozo proposed a registration fee of 1/10 of a cent? Does the US Mint need to stamp a Mil coin?
Old 11-23-2015, 10:48 AM
  #1723  
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Originally Posted by philakapd
I would have like fixed wing aircraft to be exempt OR applying your AMA information on the sUAS to satisfy the registration requirements.
I think the list is reasonable for public safety and will be necessary. There will be millions of little toys added annually to the national air space.
It's web based and accessible via cell phone with an "APP".

It's the government, what could possibly go wrong?
What could go wrong is lack of legislation to give them the authority to do this. I see lawsuits coming. Expect to see other defining what an "airplane" is. Lots of other tacts as well.
Old 11-23-2015, 10:53 AM
  #1724  
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Am I the only one to see that CBO was never mentioned once? Looks like AMA and all other modeling organizations have been usurped! Maybe We should say UASurped! LOL

Last edited by F-16 viperman; 11-23-2015 at 11:01 AM.
Old 11-23-2015, 11:01 AM
  #1725  
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Is RC flying a right or a privilege? Yes, this is a serious question.
If its a right, okay bring the law suits.
If its a privilege, why can't there be rules and regulations created by a government body?

Don't get me wrong. I don't want "big brother" but I DO want public safety and accountability for the communities.

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