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Are you ready to register your aircraft?

Old 05-19-2016, 06:18 AM
  #5101  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by hairy46
Wow, I sure remember all these problems with the hobby before the multi rotors, wait a minute, no I don't!
Where you around when there were frequency issues? When Helis became popular?

Times change, technology change, issues change.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:19 AM
  #5102  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Eventually they will have them on this site or a similar site.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...ion=5&PageNo=3
Then you didn't read their justification for withholding names etc. from FOIA requests.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:25 AM
  #5103  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Guess there are people flying these things after all.
Not sure that the registrations are only MRs. I own two for example, neither of which meets weight limit for registration. On the other hand, I own six fixed wing and four helis that do require registration.

I also found it interesting to look at indications of compliance...30+ guys in the club near us, nowhere near that many registrations in the zip code and surrounding ones where I know they live. Not that it matters I suppose, just found it interesting.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:27 AM
  #5104  
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Originally Posted by hairy46
Wow, I sure remember all these problems with the hobby before the multi rotors, wait a minute, no I don't!
Correct. We had no issues like we see today. We self regulated ourselves with success and I might add for almost 80 years. Some like to compare this to when helicopters came on the seen. That won't fly for two reasons.
1- Helicopters did not lead to government over site of the hobby.
2- Anyone can fly these RTF mutli-rotor camera platforms and I mean anyone that it itself is what brought the hobby all this regulation.

At least helicopters required a bit of dedication ( time and money) along with a bit of guidance to master them normally from the local clubs which those people supported along with joining the AMA.

Current registration numbers are twice what the AMA membership is "claimed to be" Just where are those other 180,000 and why haven't they joined the AMA ?

Mike
Old 05-19-2016, 07:28 AM
  #5105  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Wow 66 guys registered in my zip code.

Mike
I was surprised at this number:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 151"]TX[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 151"]McKinney[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 151"]75070[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 166, align: right"]241
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I don't know why, I just didn't expect the number one area for registration to be in TX. I would have thought FL or CA. I didn't add up all the reg's for each state, just sorted by the largest amount per zip code.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:30 AM
  #5106  
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I also noted that it appears to be a raw export of the data fields, there does not appear to be any error checking. For example, I spot checked a few city/state combinations where I've lived and seen errors. Just for giggles, I assumed that zip codes were probably the most correct. So I grabbed a zip code database and backed out the proper city and state.

I would love to compare vs. AMA member data base to see how good is the market penetration in each area - compare members vs. registrations. Might be a place to target advertising to scoop up more members (see Porcia...actually helping...not totally against AMA).
Old 05-19-2016, 07:32 AM
  #5107  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
At least helicopters required a bit of dedication ( time and money) along with a bit of guidance to master them...
No kidding. Even the BNF/ARF ones are unforgiving, find out in a hurry how proficient you are!
Old 05-19-2016, 07:40 AM
  #5108  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Correct. We had no issues like we see today. We self regulated ourselves with success and I might add for almost 80 years. Some like to compare this to when helicopters came on the seen. That won't fly for two reasons.
1- Helicopters did not lead to government over site of the hobby.
2- Anyone can fly these RTF mutli-rotor camera platforms and I mean anyone that it itself is what brought the hobby all this regulation.

At least helicopters required a bit of dedication ( time and money) along with a bit of guidance to master them normally from the local clubs which those people supported along with joining the AMA.

Current registration numbers are twice what the AMA membership is "claimed to be" Just where are those other 180,000 and why haven't they joined the AMA ?

Mike
I don't think membership numbers are announced till near the end of the year. Lots of people don't renew till summer or even later so it is likely actually less than last year right now, but will be larger near the end of the year.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:51 AM
  #5109  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Not sure that the registrations are only MRs. I own two for example, neither of which meets weight limit for registration. On the other hand, I own six fixed wing and four helis that do require registration.

I also found it interesting to look at indications of compliance...30+ guys in the club near us, nowhere near that many registrations in the zip code and surrounding ones where I know they live. Not that it matters I suppose, just found it interesting.
Lot's of folks said they wouldn't comply with the regs.....I'm sure there are more that haven't registered than did.
Old 05-19-2016, 07:56 AM
  #5110  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Correct. We had no issues like we see today. We self regulated ourselves with success and I might add for almost 80 years. Some like to compare this to when helicopters came on the seen. That won't fly for two reasons.
1- Helicopters did not lead to government over site of the hobby.
2- Anyone can fly these RTF mutli-rotor camera platforms and I mean anyone that it itself is what brought the hobby all this regulation.

Nothing ever presented by way of evidence to support this. The thought that a few guys flying these platforms brought all the govt intervention is not supported at all. How can the commercial application of this continue to ignored as the MAIN factor?

At least helicopters required a bit of dedication ( time and money) along with a bit of guidance to master them normally from the local clubs which those people supported along with joining the AMA.

Current registration numbers are twice what the AMA membership is "claimed to be" Just where are those other 180,000 and why haven't they joined the AMA ?

Where is the math on that one? Actually the last reported membership number was 187,000....if the reg numbers are closer to 500,000 how do you know that most of the AMA members haven't signed up? Also, keep in mind just because you're an AMA member doesn't mean you automatically have to sign up.


Mike
Above in blue
Old 05-19-2016, 07:58 AM
  #5111  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
I don't think membership numbers are announced till near the end of the year. Lots of people don't renew till summer or even later so it is likely actually less than last year right now, but will be larger near the end of the year.
AMA noted 187,000 members recently, but as some have noted they don't believe anything that the AMA says, so it's unclear what it would take other than a third party audit to confirm that. And that would cost money to do, and then the complaints would come in about that expenditure.
Old 05-19-2016, 08:09 AM
  #5112  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
AMA noted 187,000 members recently, but as some have noted they don't believe anything that the AMA says, so it's unclear what it would take other than a third party audit to confirm that. And that would cost money to do, and then the complaints would come in about that expenditure.
Thats a pretty accurate number
Old 05-19-2016, 08:52 AM
  #5113  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
Thats a pretty accurate number
That last EC Meeting in April reported this.

Membership as of yesterday – New Open/Adult memberships up 4,478, renewals were down 2,102. Overall Open/Adult memberships up 2.7% to 70,678 year to date. Senior, Park Pilot, and Youth memberships were all up. Memberships are up 10,895 to 178,863 for a growth of almost 6.5% over this time last year.

Now if the 187,000 that's being tossed around is number is accurate why the difference? Now New opens are up 4478 good news but the renewals were down 2102 bad news considering the offer to renew at the old rate. Also keep in mind that while the youth memberships are great they are free thus bring in no revenue. Last time I saw a posted number on Youth Memberships it was 50,000. Out of those 10,895 that we are"up" how many are free?
Toss in the amount if club charters not renewed this year I believe that number is around 200 now.



Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 05-19-2016 at 08:56 AM.
Old 05-19-2016, 09:40 AM
  #5114  
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187 thou, 178 thou, what difference does it make. The point is there are at least 200 thou registered who are not AMA members - why not? I suppose one reason is because we just don't give a damn about AMA anymore.
Old 05-19-2016, 09:44 AM
  #5115  
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Those extra 200,000 are flying those nasty BLOS MR's. They don't need our fields. And apparently some here don't want them to be members. Rather they would complain about membership levels but yet they don't want the new members..
Old 05-19-2016, 09:46 AM
  #5116  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
That last EC Meeting in April reported this.

Membership as of yesterday – New Open/Adult memberships up 4,478, renewals were down 2,102. Overall Open/Adult memberships up 2.7% to 70,678 year to date. Senior, Park Pilot, and Youth memberships were all up. Memberships are up 10,895 to 178,863 for a growth of almost 6.5% over this time last year.

Now if the 187,000 that's being tossed around is number is accurate why the difference? Now New opens are up 4478 good news but the renewals were down 2102 bad news considering the offer to renew at the old rate. Also keep in mind that while the youth memberships are great they are free thus bring in no revenue. Last time I saw a posted number on Youth Memberships it was 50,000. Out of those 10,895 that we are"up" how many are free?
Toss in the amount if club charters not renewed this year I believe that number is around 200 now.



Mike

That 179,000 will be over 200,000 by year end per the very words you do not seem to understand.
Old 05-19-2016, 10:40 AM
  #5117  
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So if membership are up 10,895, and they say that 2,376 of those are adults, then the remaining 8,519 are in three categories: One at discounted cost, one a much lower cost, and one at no cost. I wonder how many in each category?
Old 05-19-2016, 10:43 AM
  #5118  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
Thats a pretty accurate number
I think it would be valuable to know how many of those are zero revenue youth memberships? Pretty easy to run up big numbers in that category that pad the top line number, but don't accurately reflect the revenue generating health of the organization.
Old 05-19-2016, 10:46 AM
  #5119  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Above in blue
I think the wording of the last question (bold black) asked why so many people have registered but not joined AMA...
Old 05-19-2016, 11:12 AM
  #5120  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
I think the wording of the last question (bold black) asked why so many people have registered but not joined AMA...
Why is this a mystery? Maybe you should hire Nancy Drew.
Old 05-19-2016, 12:36 PM
  #5121  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
I think it would be valuable to know how many of those are zero revenue youth memberships? Pretty easy to run up big numbers in that category that pad the top line number, but don't accurately reflect the revenue generating health of the organization.
Must every comment be an allegation of wrongdoing or nefarious activity, ie "padding". Zero revenue youth memberships don't concern me a bit, about the best way I can think of to encourage family and/or youth involvement. While it might not be an income producing membership, it's also doubtful that is costs the AMA anything either....maybe the cost of the membership card, postage, and perhaps a pin. So, $4.00 maybe. Not seeing a problem here whatsoever. I'd actually rather see the AMA increase incentives to youth joining, scholarships to local club (for dues), maybe even partnerships with retailers for discounts on new planes/gear. Much better than the suddenly popular idea of just handing out money to clubs (many of which can certainly survive without it). Hmmm...pay for a new awning or grille, or get 2-3 kids involved in the hobby.

I know you don't belong to a club any longer, so you might be removed from the issue, but I encourage you to head out and visit some clubs on any given day, especially the weekend. Not exactly teaming with youth....more like the standard AMA profile of 50 plus. And add the "friendliness" factor of so many clubs regarding helis, "foamies", the unsightly ARF's, and of course, we can't forget multirotors....and you see the struggle.



Originally Posted by franklin_m
I think the wording of the last question (bold black) asked why so many people have registered but not joined AMA...

Good point, agree upon re-review. Don't see the correlation though, nobody ever said that everyone registering with the FAA was going to then register with the AMA. Wouldn't be surprised if some did, I know of a few that did so, but also might have offset those choosing not to renew with the AMA as well.

The membership numbers are healthy, not up or down precipitously in either direction, and certainly not indicative of any widespread issues (purported but not yet realized)
Old 05-19-2016, 01:44 PM
  #5122  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Horse crap yourself. That drone is flown FPV mode. Hardly ever anything but.
Sport in one of the clubs I am in in AJ AZ there are maybe 25 people of 270 club members flying drones and only one flyes it FPV and not often because he doesn't know thw area enough to do real FPV. He has a tracking system and just records what he sees.
Another Wisconsin club has maybe 3 out of 70 or so and one I know flys heads down looking at a screen attached to is Transmitter. I personally would have a screen on the transmitter and hold the radio so I can watch the screen and the transmitter held so I can watch the screen and the quad right over the top of the screen. WHY be cause I can't fot the goggles over my glasses. If I were to fly with some sort of FPV it would be on a Traditional R/C Plane and with a head tracker sstem and on a buddy box. How many people U know that are actually into full blown FPV and how many do it BLOS or with out a spotter or budy box set up?

OH I heard it second hand from the guys in one of my Wisconsin clubs that they saw a plane circle the field and then head tword a school on the other side of a 4 lane restricted access road. They suspect that some was flying FPV BLOS from the school grounds ... this happened just one time.
Old 05-19-2016, 03:51 PM
  #5123  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill
what difference does it make.
Gee, where have I heard that before?

Mike
Old 05-19-2016, 04:07 PM
  #5124  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Must every comment be an allegation of wrongdoing or nefarious activity, ie "padding". Zero revenue youth memberships don't concern me a bit, about the best way I can think of to encourage family and/or youth involvement. While it might not be an income producing membership, it's also doubtful that is costs the AMA anything either....maybe the cost of the membership card, postage, and perhaps a pin. So, $4.00 maybe. Not seeing a problem here whatsoever. I'd actually rather see the AMA increase incentives to youth joining, scholarships to local club (for dues), maybe even partnerships with retailers for discounts on new planes/gear. Much better than the suddenly popular idea of just handing out money to clubs (many of which can certainly survive without it). Hmmm...pay for a new awning or grille, or get 2-3 kids involved in the hobby.

I know you don't belong to a club any longer, so you might be removed from the issue, but I encourage you to head out and visit some clubs on any given day, especially the weekend. Not exactly teaming with youth....more like the standard AMA profile of 50 plus. And add the "friendliness" factor of so many clubs regarding helis, "foamies", the unsightly ARF's, and of course, we can't forget multirotors....and you see the struggle.
My point is that they throw around the top level number as an indication of the health, but you have to admit that youth memberships are a good chunk of that total number. But what pays the bills, and I argue is the measure of true health, are the revenue generating memberships. And that number is somewhat obfuscated by the way they publicize the data.

As for the club...interesting you should mention that. I went out to the club field twice this past time I was home (I work two weeks on/two weeks off). It's just a tad under 13 miles one way. Went on a Saturday around 1pm one week, and a Sunday around 2pm the next week (should easily satisfy your stated "any given day" criteria). It was beautiful both days. Dry, light wind, and sunny (which has been rare in PA of late). How many people flying each time? Precisely zero.

I don't know how or even if the AMA will be able to capture the youth/MR crowd. They seem to be a group that eschews constraints, and I don't see the AMA being a good match. You're right about the demographic in my rather unscientific sampling of clubs I've been a member and in clubs I've visited. Youth memberships are perhaps the only way to draw kids in, but if they never turn into paying memberships, what's the point.
Old 05-19-2016, 04:55 PM
  #5125  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
My point is that they throw around the top level number as an indication of the health, but you have to admit that youth memberships are a good chunk of that total number. But what pays the bills, and I argue is the measure of true health, are the revenue generating memberships. And that number is somewhat obfuscated by the way they publicize the data.

As for the club...interesting you should mention that. I went out to the club field twice this past time I was home (I work two weeks on/two weeks off). It's just a tad under 13 miles one way. Went on a Saturday around 1pm one week, and a Sunday around 2pm the next week (should easily satisfy your stated "any given day" criteria). It was beautiful both days. Dry, light wind, and sunny (which has been rare in PA of late). How many people flying each time? Precisely zero.

I don't know how or even if the AMA will be able to capture the youth/MR crowd. They seem to be a group that eschews constraints, and I don't see the AMA being a good match. You're right about the demographic in my rather unscientific sampling of clubs I've been a member and in clubs I've visited. Youth memberships are perhaps the only way to draw kids in, but if they never turn into paying memberships, what's the point.
You didn't mention what the total number of members in your club is, but all clubs may see more activity on certain days than others. One club I belong to all the active members flew on Wed. during the day so I never saw them on weekends.

Lately I've been flying on weekdays after work more than weekends.

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