WAKE UP AMA. Another field closed!!
11-09-2015, 04:51 PM
#28
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Your memory is incorrect. The irony of your post is probably lost on you, given the fact that you aren't an AMA member, and fly off your own land and are in fact trolling in this thread. Stop already with the trolling, if you don't like my comments you can use the ignore function, or just be an adult and move on by.
Last edited by porcia83; 11-09-2015 at 05:45 PM. Reason: self editing too tart
11-09-2015, 04:55 PM
#30
Your memory is as faulty as your social skills. The irony of your post is probably lost on you, given the fact that you aren't an AMA member, and fly off your own land and are in fact trolling in this thread. Stop already with the trolling, if you don't like my comments you can use the ignore function, or just be an adult and move on by.
11-09-2015, 04:56 PM
#31
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Oh if only they would have banned them, the world and the AMA would be so perfect. Then again, I'm sure there would be a 100 other complaints about anything and everything. At least Joe put his money where his mouth was, he voted with his wallet and walked away. Can you do the same? You can still sit in judgement and second guess what goes on though. Or are you doing something more meaningful and running for office? I look forward to hearing your platform and all the suggestions you have for improving everything.
11-09-2015, 05:00 PM
#32
Oh if only they would have banned them, the world and the AMA would be so perfect. Then again, I'm sure there would be a 100 other complaints about anything and everything. At least Joe put his money where his mouth was, he voted with his wallet and walked away. Can you do the same? You can still sit in judgement and second guess what goes on though. Or are you doing something more meaningful and running for office? I look forward to hearing your platform and all the suggestions you have for improving everything.
11-09-2015, 05:08 PM
#33
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Gosh as much I'd like to tell you I remember corresponding with you, I apologize I just don't. I vaguely recall discussions in another thread and chances are we might have disagreed on something or other, nothing major since it didn't stick in my mind. Then again, I lose my car keys, wallet and phone on a daily basis. No doubt this will go down the rabbit hole of taking the thread off course, but I have had an AMA card now for at least 6 or 7 years now, and don't own more than the land my house is on, which is basically a tree filled postage stamp among many. I've certainly flown before I had AMA, and in places other than an AMA field if that's what your getting at. The relevance to the thread though?
11-09-2015, 05:13 PM
#34
Banned
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The only thing missing to make that a complete best of all worlds is saying that your wife and kids (I'm assuming there) are totally into flying too....that would be the trifecta of perfection. You have many folks green with envy in having your own land do with what you will. I've driven around my state and tried to picture what land I will buy and make my own RC field out of after I hit the Powerball (which will happen I'm sure of it). I'm sure there are lots of people out there in the same place, able to do what they want. For me, it would get boring at times if I was the only one. Part of the draw of the first club I joined was to learn how to fly the right way after burning through money and planes. Next was the group of guys, and the club atmosphere. There is something to be said to flying with others. I've never believed that someone has to be part of the AMA or a formal club to enjoy the hobby. In fact I bet there are more non members than there are members. As long as they are safe and enjoying themselves, it's a win.
11-09-2015, 05:23 PM
#35
The only thing missing to make that a complete best of all worlds is saying that your wife and kids (I'm assuming there) are totally into flying too....that would be the trifecta of perfection. You have many folks green with envy in having your own land do with what you will. I've driven around my state and tried to picture what land I will buy and make my own RC field out of after I hit the Powerball (which will happen I'm sure of it). I'm sure there are lots of people out there in the same place, able to do what they want. For me, it would get boring at times if I was the only one. Part of the draw of the first club I joined was to learn how to fly the right way after burning through money and planes. Next was the group of guys, and the club atmosphere. There is something to be said to flying with others. I've never believed that someone has to be part of the AMA or a formal club to enjoy the hobby. In fact I bet there are more non members than there are members. As long as they are safe and enjoying themselves, it's a win.
11-09-2015, 05:28 PM
#36
Gosh as much I'd like to tell you I remember corresponding with you, I apologize I just don't. I vaguely recall discussions in another thread and chances are we might have disagreed on something or other, nothing major since it didn't stick in my mind. Then again, I lose my car keys, wallet and phone on a daily basis. No doubt this will go down the rabbit hole of taking the thread off course, but I have had an AMA card now for at least 6 or 7 years now, and don't own more than the land my house is on, which is basically a tree filled postage stamp among many. I've certainly flown before I had AMA, and in places other than an AMA field if that's what your getting at. The relevance to the thread though?
11-09-2015, 05:36 PM
#37
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Mkay...time well spent I guess? Not sure who the ferrit friend is though. I do recall seeing that pic of the young boy and that plane. I think you might have had a giant scale water plane, Canadian livery perhaps? Either way, you are a lucky man in many respects.
11-09-2015, 05:41 PM
#38
Rockland County New York passed some drone legislation this year. Because of our clubs good standing, we fly on a closed landfill and do an air show each year, we were able to deal with the politicians directly. Their intent was to curb the types of reckless activity we see on the news. We reminded them of how and where we fly. Now keep in mind we are across from the Hudson River and there is a big marina, a county park and last but not least an active heliport. This was our 7th year and we still exist without problems. I believe one biggest reasons is because we welcome the public not only to our air show, but we always have a trainer ready to offer visitors a chance to fly and to spectate. Our Town sees us as a positive and they really promote the air show. Last August they gave out 1100 hot dogs to the public for free. I honestly think we try our best to show people how great this hobby is.
Now while the legislation didn't hurt the two clubs in Rockland County, as club president I went to each public hearing to hear the public comments and offer an opinion if I could. Before one of meetings, I spoke to a County Legislator, I went on about the AMA Safety Code and how we fly at the club fields. The lawmaker reponded with "what's the AMA?". That's when I realized that we modelers really needed to reach out to the public, be it an air show, school projects or just go to our Town Hall meetings and talk about the club during the public comment portion. This pleases our Town Supervisor because of the big crowd we get each summer at the air show, and the good use of closed landfill.
While we have no problems with people flying quads, we do not allow FPV at the field. In past threads I was beaten up about that rule by some people. None the less, because of our location and what surrounds us we have no regrets. A few months ago we were paid a visit by the FBI. It seems that someone crashed a "drone" at a nuclear power plant that we can see from our flying field. We made it clear that we don't support that facet of "model aviation." We also stressed the fact that while we need a runway for our planes but a "drone" can take off from anywhere.
All I can say is that I think more clubs will lose flying fields due to negative fall out. I think that it's too late for the AMA to reverse it's position, and even if they did it wouldn't matter much. All we can do is just try and show people that we are reponsible and not a danger or risk to public safety. Each field that is lost is a major blow.
Now while the legislation didn't hurt the two clubs in Rockland County, as club president I went to each public hearing to hear the public comments and offer an opinion if I could. Before one of meetings, I spoke to a County Legislator, I went on about the AMA Safety Code and how we fly at the club fields. The lawmaker reponded with "what's the AMA?". That's when I realized that we modelers really needed to reach out to the public, be it an air show, school projects or just go to our Town Hall meetings and talk about the club during the public comment portion. This pleases our Town Supervisor because of the big crowd we get each summer at the air show, and the good use of closed landfill.
While we have no problems with people flying quads, we do not allow FPV at the field. In past threads I was beaten up about that rule by some people. None the less, because of our location and what surrounds us we have no regrets. A few months ago we were paid a visit by the FBI. It seems that someone crashed a "drone" at a nuclear power plant that we can see from our flying field. We made it clear that we don't support that facet of "model aviation." We also stressed the fact that while we need a runway for our planes but a "drone" can take off from anywhere.
All I can say is that I think more clubs will lose flying fields due to negative fall out. I think that it's too late for the AMA to reverse it's position, and even if they did it wouldn't matter much. All we can do is just try and show people that we are reponsible and not a danger or risk to public safety. Each field that is lost is a major blow.
No Real Problems YEt. Boards change Homes pay a lot more taxes and Crap just happens.
11-09-2015, 05:47 PM
#40
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
That is absolutely amazing to have a HO association add that information into the contract. They are some of the most notoriously difficult groups of people to deal with sometimes! Just shows what effort can do!
Last edited by porcia83; 11-09-2015 at 05:50 PM.
11-09-2015, 05:58 PM
#43
Gary,
Hope you feel better now. I guess that my crime here was caring about saving your field. (Also the several other fields in VA and MD that we use) I have several friends who are members of your club and I feel pretty bad that their airplanes are "homeless" for now. Anyways, your Obama slur directed at me was a cheap shot. I learned about why your field was closed from my friends who fly there and if there is a problem you may want to do some introspection about how you communicate with your members and what they know about the closure.
The basic problem you have is this text from AC91-57A.
It mixes SFRA and the FRZ. Your field is in the ring which is an Air Defense Identification Zone. But it is not in the Flight Restricted Zone.
ADIZ allows for flight operations of UAS under a defined set of circumstances. Whereas the FRZ has a complete ban on UAS flights. So, the bottom line here is that the AC91-57A was poorly written. In fact the SFRA reference makes no sense since UAS flights are allowed in certain parts of the SFRA.
Anyways, I stand by my comments that AMA is a sleep at the wheel on protecting model aviation. We can certainly disagree. But I pay dues to AMA to protect model aviation and I have a right to comment on how my money is being spent. The personal attack is just not understandable.
Ken
Hope you feel better now. I guess that my crime here was caring about saving your field. (Also the several other fields in VA and MD that we use) I have several friends who are members of your club and I feel pretty bad that their airplanes are "homeless" for now. Anyways, your Obama slur directed at me was a cheap shot. I learned about why your field was closed from my friends who fly there and if there is a problem you may want to do some introspection about how you communicate with your members and what they know about the closure.
The basic problem you have is this text from AC91-57A.
It mixes SFRA and the FRZ. Your field is in the ring which is an Air Defense Identification Zone. But it is not in the Flight Restricted Zone.
ADIZ allows for flight operations of UAS under a defined set of circumstances. Whereas the FRZ has a complete ban on UAS flights. So, the bottom line here is that the AC91-57A was poorly written. In fact the SFRA reference makes no sense since UAS flights are allowed in certain parts of the SFRA.
Anyways, I stand by my comments that AMA is a sleep at the wheel on protecting model aviation. We can certainly disagree. But I pay dues to AMA to protect model aviation and I have a right to comment on how my money is being spent. The personal attack is just not understandable.
Ken
Last edited by kdunlap; 11-09-2015 at 06:53 PM. Reason: typo
11-09-2015, 06:12 PM
#44
I have to be honest ... items 1 - 4 listed above are exactly the way we fly at our club. Except for FPV - we've had a couple of those at our field. But for the most part items 1 - 4 describe flying at our field:
- we rarely have an FPV at our field
- we almost never fly above 400 ft
- we're not within 5 miles of an airport w/tower
- I don't know of anybody who flies at night at our field
The law passed by the City of L.A. doesn't sound so bad, considering it addresses airfields in a crowded city environment. (I'm about to get flamed for saying this!)
- we rarely have an FPV at our field
- we almost never fly above 400 ft
- we're not within 5 miles of an airport w/tower
- I don't know of anybody who flies at night at our field
The law passed by the City of L.A. doesn't sound so bad, considering it addresses airfields in a crowded city environment. (I'm about to get flamed for saying this!)
The city of LA is not in the model business in any way and should not be passing laws that put restrictions on modelers that neither the AMA or the FAA puts on them. And furthermore I doubt there have been any conflicts that can be traced to the types of flying they are restricting.
11-09-2015, 07:05 PM
#45
11-10-2015, 12:36 AM
#46
Banning Quads Because of a few idiots is the same as banning guns because a few idiots use them in the commision of a crime or illegal activity. If the AMA won't (can't) come to the aid of every club that flies in a populated area then the clubs them selves start a campaign to enlighten the Public, Govt. Officials. Local police and your local alderman/county officials ect. Two of the 5 clubs to which I belong to in WI. are being encroached on by Subdivisions. One because of our former President My self and the clubs Treasure attend every town meeting that concerned the Subdivision / housing area. Long story short on their Homers association form the sigh at the time they buy a lot there is a paragraph that states the PCF club has been there since the early 80' and it's got the blessing of the town board over the Home owners.
No Real Problems YEt. Boards change Homes pay a lot more taxes and Crap just happens.
No Real Problems YEt. Boards change Homes pay a lot more taxes and Crap just happens.
11-10-2015, 12:39 AM
#47
It really highlights how important leadership and people skills in running a successful long-term club.
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 11-10-2015 at 05:17 AM.
11-10-2015, 05:29 AM
#48
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: El Paso,
TX
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Oh if only they would have banned them, the world and the AMA would be so perfect.
Nobody wants them banned. The AMA putting a bit of distance from them would be nice to protect what we have by reinforcing the fact that's not who we are or what we do.
Then again, I'm sure there would be a 100 other complaints about anything and everything.
Why's that?
At least Joe put his money where his mouth was, he voted with his wallet and walked away. Can you do the same?
I did the 2 year deal to see just how this pans out being a club officer it would not be fair to the club members to just walk. With that said if it goes to far south I'm done. While I disagree with the current direction our organization is taking there is always a chance that it may change.
You can still sit in judgement and second guess what goes on though.
When you get no information as far as just what the plan is or just what the cost will be along with just what the goal is there will be questions along with second guessing.
Or are you doing something more meaningful and running for office? I look forward to hearing your platform and all the suggestions you have for improving everything.
Distancing our organization for all the "problem children" and defining that is not what we do. Instead we cast the net thinking they would flock to us is getting us in deeper. We do not have the resources needed to win this.
Nobody wants them banned. The AMA putting a bit of distance from them would be nice to protect what we have by reinforcing the fact that's not who we are or what we do.
Then again, I'm sure there would be a 100 other complaints about anything and everything.
Why's that?
At least Joe put his money where his mouth was, he voted with his wallet and walked away. Can you do the same?
I did the 2 year deal to see just how this pans out being a club officer it would not be fair to the club members to just walk. With that said if it goes to far south I'm done. While I disagree with the current direction our organization is taking there is always a chance that it may change.
You can still sit in judgement and second guess what goes on though.
When you get no information as far as just what the plan is or just what the cost will be along with just what the goal is there will be questions along with second guessing.
Or are you doing something more meaningful and running for office? I look forward to hearing your platform and all the suggestions you have for improving everything.
Distancing our organization for all the "problem children" and defining that is not what we do. Instead we cast the net thinking they would flock to us is getting us in deeper. We do not have the resources needed to win this.
Every-time I go out to our fields I thank God that were far enough off the beaten path that regardless of the outcome we'll be OK. My heart goes out to those who are losing fields to those fields close enough to be a blip on the radar they are the ones who will really suffer.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 11-10-2015 at 05:34 AM.
11-10-2015, 05:38 AM
#49
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Haverstraw,
NY
Posts: 144
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Banning Quads Because of a few idiots is the same as banning guns because a few idiots use them in the commision of a crime or illegal activity. If the AMA won't (can't) come to the aid of every club that flies in a populated area then the clubs them selves start a campaign to enlighten the Public, Govt. Officials. Local police and your local alderman/county officials ect. Two of the 5 clubs to which I belong to in WI. are being encroached on by Subdivisions. One because of our former President My self and the clubs Treasure attend every town meeting that concerned the Subdivision / housing area. Long story short on their Homers association form the sigh at the time they buy a lot there is a paragraph that states the PCF club has been there since the early 80' and it's got the blessing of the town board over the Home owners.
No Real Problems YEt. Boards change Homes pay a lot more taxes and Crap just happens.
No Real Problems YEt. Boards change Homes pay a lot more taxes and Crap just happens.
11-10-2015, 06:01 AM
#50
Like I said, we allow quads, just NO FPV. As a matter of fact, if someone comes to our club with an interest in FPV we send them to another area club that allows it. Being proactive about the limits of our surroundings just might have kept our club from being shut down. Do I have a problem with "drones"? I suppose that I do when it puts our hobby as a whole at risk.