View Poll Results: Was it a mistake or not for the AMA to embrace drones ?
Voters: 356. You may not vote on this poll
Yes or No , Do you think the AMA was right or wrong to embrace DRONES ?
12-07-2015, 07:31 AM
#226
Yes to that question would mean they want surf and turf.
12-07-2015, 08:43 AM
#227
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You can't answer "yes" without explaining what you are saying yes to. You can't answer "no" without explaining what you are saying "no" to. How can we expect people to take us seriously if we can't spell or put sentences together correctly?
Jaybird
Last edited by Jaybird; 12-07-2015 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Clarification
12-07-2015, 08:46 AM
#228
14, 25 etc are in fact infinitesimally small numbers compared to the overall membership. It's doubtful each of the signatories of the original document are going to go to fly-ins and events and try to drum up support and have people signing forms. Regardless, even if there is some additional interest and some signatures the thought that "the AMA will have no choice but to change direction" is at best, naive. They don't "have" to do anything. The EC was elected/hired to do what they do. If there is a huge groundswell of opposition down the road to what they have done, then the membership can have their say (although CJ I believe already said that can't happen) As for those electoral changes, I wouldn't hold my breath, have you seen the election results lately from the membership? D8 voted OUT the guy who was against the whole MR thing, and elected in someone who's position on the issue was unknown, or at least he chose not to make it known. See the results of any of the other districts?
I'm genuinely unsure of what you hope to accomplish, what's done is done. The AMA can't undue their involvement, and the DOT/FAA certainly isn't going to change what they are doing.
I'm genuinely unsure of what you hope to accomplish, what's done is done. The AMA can't undue their involvement, and the DOT/FAA certainly isn't going to change what they are doing.
Porcia, do you have any data to support otherwise?
I also find it interesting that you continue to spend a significant amount of time arguing with such insignificant data, if you did not feel threatened by the results of the poll in some way, I have a hard time believing you would waste so much of your valuable time trying to argue with such insignificant data and insignificant people.
Regards,
Astro
12-07-2015, 12:45 PM
#229
14, 25, 164... I agree that it is a small percentage of the overall membership, BUT it is SOMETHING, no? It may not be scientifically accurate due to the particular demographic of not only who reads posts in this forum, but who feels compelled to actually cast a vote here, BUT it is more than any other data that we have been exposed to otherwise.
Porcia, do you have any data to support otherwise?
I also find it interesting that you continue to spend a significant amount of time arguing with such insignificant data, if you did not feel threatened by the results of the poll in some way, I have a hard time believing you would waste so much of your valuable time trying to argue with such insignificant data and insignificant people.
Regards,
Astro
Porcia, do you have any data to support otherwise?
I also find it interesting that you continue to spend a significant amount of time arguing with such insignificant data, if you did not feel threatened by the results of the poll in some way, I have a hard time believing you would waste so much of your valuable time trying to argue with such insignificant data and insignificant people.
Regards,
Astro
Hi Astro , It is a common tactic to attempt to discredit the opposite viewpoint in a disagreement . Things like "it's not a REAL poll cause ALL AMA members haven't weighed in" are to be expected when the results are so lopsided . Well , I'd say to anyone who attempts to discredit the results of this poll ;
The statistically small cross area examination of a segment of the entire population's viewpoint is exactly what a poll is !
Polls , by their very nature , ARE NOT ELECTIONS where each and every soul's choice can be heard ! Now , in our case here , we've had what , 167 responses with 134 saying it was a mistake and 33 saying it wasn't . Factoring out the 3 or 4 who misunderstood the question we are still at close to 80% responding it was a mistake . I know such numbers are an affront to the pro drone crowd but as all pollsters say "The numbers never lie" and here the majority has clearly spoken , we , as "traditional RC plane flyers" want no association whatsoever with that the non flying public knows as "Drones" !
12-07-2015, 12:59 PM
#230
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LoL...., sure thing, my comments indicate I'm threatened by the numbers. What a riot! 
Pick any of those numbers, multiply them times 10, still a very small number. And yes, it's still something, and as I've said multiple times, some action on behalf of the membership (regardless of the position they take) is better than none. It was just horribly planned and executed, and based on that alone my guess (in other words my opinion), there won't be more than a couple of hundred responses at best. And please resist the urge to spin that as an attack on the people who participated in it, it's an honest critique of the process, not the people. Worst part, ultimately there will be no way to quantify even those numbers. What if it's 100. Or what if it's 5,000. Who will know? Trying to drum up support at fly ins is completely unrealistic, time consuming, and won't get the intended results. Then again, if you stick with Heli and Giant scale events, perhaps there will be better response rates. Wonder if someone will do this at FPV/MR?quad races? Numbers can be spun a bunch of different ways, and usually only tell a portion of the story. Even the way they are collected makes a difference.
Oddly enough, it's still not too late to try to make some changes to what they want to do, and go about this in a more meaningful way. A few folks including myself noted some suggestions but were quickly drown out and berated for not following along "party lines". There are even more creative and effective ways of getting the message out as well, but I suspect like the technology that some of the folks work with and represent, they are locked into that "group think", and don't recognize what current ways are available to them to effectively campaign for change. Here is suggestion number one....find someone to speak on their behalf, someone who is capable of delivering a message in a clear, concise, and meaningful way, absent demagoguery, divisiveness, and vitriol. A champion for the effort if you will. Rework the letter. Have it done by a professional, at least get the easy stuff like spelling, people's name, grammar etc correct. Shorten it up, like some of my comments, it was to verbose (beat you to it). There is plenty more, but like Franklin says, I've tried to help, but if they don't come back to me and ask for more help I won't give it. Seriously though, this can be done better and maybe get better results.
Pick any of those numbers, multiply them times 10, still a very small number. And yes, it's still something, and as I've said multiple times, some action on behalf of the membership (regardless of the position they take) is better than none. It was just horribly planned and executed, and based on that alone my guess (in other words my opinion), there won't be more than a couple of hundred responses at best. And please resist the urge to spin that as an attack on the people who participated in it, it's an honest critique of the process, not the people. Worst part, ultimately there will be no way to quantify even those numbers. What if it's 100. Or what if it's 5,000. Who will know? Trying to drum up support at fly ins is completely unrealistic, time consuming, and won't get the intended results. Then again, if you stick with Heli and Giant scale events, perhaps there will be better response rates. Wonder if someone will do this at FPV/MR?quad races? Numbers can be spun a bunch of different ways, and usually only tell a portion of the story. Even the way they are collected makes a difference.
Oddly enough, it's still not too late to try to make some changes to what they want to do, and go about this in a more meaningful way. A few folks including myself noted some suggestions but were quickly drown out and berated for not following along "party lines". There are even more creative and effective ways of getting the message out as well, but I suspect like the technology that some of the folks work with and represent, they are locked into that "group think", and don't recognize what current ways are available to them to effectively campaign for change. Here is suggestion number one....find someone to speak on their behalf, someone who is capable of delivering a message in a clear, concise, and meaningful way, absent demagoguery, divisiveness, and vitriol. A champion for the effort if you will. Rework the letter. Have it done by a professional, at least get the easy stuff like spelling, people's name, grammar etc correct. Shorten it up, like some of my comments, it was to verbose (beat you to it). There is plenty more, but like Franklin says, I've tried to help, but if they don't come back to me and ask for more help I won't give it.
Seriously though, this can be done better and maybe get better results.
Last edited by porcia83; 12-07-2015 at 01:03 PM.
12-07-2015, 01:01 PM
#231
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I still see this poll is still here.
I also still see a refusal to delete this poll and start over with clear verbiage
This is about having an accurate account, without any type of confusion possible.....
I also still see a refusal to delete this poll and start over with clear verbiage
This is about having an accurate account, without any type of confusion possible.....
12-07-2015, 01:09 PM
#232
Banned
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No real sense in deleting it, or changing it, or starting it over. The results probably wouldn't change that much, any poll has a variance, lets say 2-5% either way. Even say 10%, the results would most likely read the same. Now, run the same pole at RCG, Flying Giants, and Suasnews. Now those results would be interesting as well. Where the poll is done makes a difference as well as what the question is. Regardless though if where the question is posed, I would guess that of the total people responding....and that is a key factor, it would probably still lean towards the "I wish the AMA wasn't involved..." side.
12-07-2015, 01:28 PM
#233
All polls have a "MARGIN OF ERROR" ! Now , if you fell victim to that margin of error , well Tim that's too bad . The fact remains that even if we factor out 5 "it was a mistake" answers as really meaning to respond "it was not a mistake" , we would STILL have 75% who don't agree with you . Now , rather than whining and attacking the poll itself , why not consider WHY 75% of the respondents say drones spell doom for model aviation ? I do believe any and all flights beyond LOS have left the model aircraft designation and become drones , and that the bad press drones have brought us are reason enough to cut ties with the flying camera crowd (AMA #550 condoned FPV excluded)
PS , you got a problem with THIS poll , Tim , Well buddy , tell ya what , Here's a little secret just between us two ;
Polls are pretty darned cheap , no , wait just a minute , polls are FREE to post here at RCU !!!!!!
This means , if you don't like this one , there is exactly NOTHING keeping you from POSTING A POLL OF YOUR VERY OWN !!!!!!!
One that YOU get control of the wording of !
Bear in mind , though , that although you will control the question , you will NOT be able to control the responses any more there than you have been able to do here , despite your many attempts ( yes , Tim , demanding a poll closed most certainly IS attempting control) ..
Now , you'll invariably come back with "I don't care enough about this to post a poll" to which I'll openly laugh in your face since your posts here surely do indicate that this subject DOES mean something to you , and your just not happy that your in the extreme minority opinion here .
Good Luck posting that new poll , make sure to put your flame proof suit on before ya post it .........
12-07-2015, 02:59 PM
#236
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Tseres
Two very good posts. Thank you for sharing.
One of the things some people missed is the fee .ooo1. In most Euro countries there is a Value tax. This Tax once started at 1% and in many cases has now risen to 20% or more. Government loves to spend money. They love to increase programs, hire more, control more and grow their mandate.
We are looking at the beginning here.
Two very good posts. Thank you for sharing.
One of the things some people missed is the fee .ooo1. In most Euro countries there is a Value tax. This Tax once started at 1% and in many cases has now risen to 20% or more. Government loves to spend money. They love to increase programs, hire more, control more and grow their mandate.
We are looking at the beginning here.
12-07-2015, 03:02 PM
#237
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I voted that AMA made a mistake in going after drones, but given what else they did previously while playing the big city politics game, it doesn't matter such a much to me. They argue that sec 336 disallows FAA from requiring model airplanes to be registered. The definition of model airplane in 336 includes only those UA flown by CBO members. IOW, AMA owns a monopoly concession on model aircraft flying in the US, granted by Congress. The other 'recreational sUAS' previously known as model airplanes are inseparable in the pertinent law from 'drones.' Add just the projected drone sales before Christmas and the number of drone operators will be around 2 million give or take. I might best get inured to being known as a 'drone operator,' as the public perception of innocuous 'model aircraft' is bound to get lost when the drones outnumber them by a factor of 10+ in just a couple of weeks.
12-07-2015, 03:23 PM
#238
I voted that AMA made a mistake in going after drones, but given what else they did previously while playing the big city politics game, it doesn't matter such a much to me. They argue that sec 336 disallows FAA from requiring model airplanes to be registered. The definition of model airplane in 336 includes only those UA flown by CBO members. IOW, AMA owns a monopoly concession on model aircraft flying in the US, granted by Congress. The other 'recreational sUAS' previously known as model airplanes are inseparable in the pertinent law from 'drones.' Add just the projected drone sales before Christmas and the number of drone operators will be around 2 million give or take. I might best get inured to being known as a 'drone operator,' as the public perception of innocuous 'model aircraft' is bound to get lost when the drones outnumber them by a factor of 10+ in just a couple of weeks.
12-07-2015, 03:35 PM
#239
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12-07-2015, 07:07 PM
#240
Good grief I try not to take , or make , it personal when posting these threads . It becomes hard sometimes to not strike back at folks who call folks morons , ignorant , and trolls just for posting a question that we ALL know is on people's minds . As an extra view into how these threads work I always use the "show votes" option in the poll so that people can see who voted what . Reason being , this thread , as so many others , follows the pattern of the OP being attacked by most of the minority opinion respondents simply for posting the question , rather than attacking the position itself . Funny that not one "it was a mistake" respondent has attacked me and a number of the "it was not a mistake" respondents have gone out of their way to attack me personally , when it's the question itself that's supposed to be the talking point . Attack me , attempt to discredit the question , and attempt to close the thread are all the tools of the person who feels negatively about the question and in the two dimensional world that is the internet I guess that's just par for the course . I aim to do nothing more that present the question and respect EACH opinion whether I believe in it or not . Notice how my "attacks" are always in response to an attack on me ? I'd more properly call them "counterattacks" and believe it or not I'd rather not have the bad feelings in the first place !
12-07-2015, 08:05 PM
#241
Banned
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Hey, I'll top that...I got attacked for admitting I made the mistake..and then someone decided to say I called it my "stupid" mistake, and then went further to say I said Franklin made it too. We've both been around long enough to know people will argue and attack about virtually anything...even whether it's an argument! Just smile and move on.
12-07-2015, 10:40 PM
#242
I had an interesting week-end: I went to a model heli event where the club simultaneously hosted a drone race. Having a few friends in the heli world, I spent most of my time with them, and most of the pilots there commented that the drone group was so far distant from the Aeromodeling world that there was virtually no interacting between the two groups at all. On the other hand, we saw quite a few of our fixed wings pilots friends there watching the helicopter fights (but many more were at a nearby pylon race).
I had a chance to ask over twenty people about their feelings on the AMA's embracing of the drones, and only one wanted to stay neutral due to marital diplomacy, while 25 AMA members decided to sign the petition in support of the open letter we have recently sent to the AMA Executive Council. This may seem like a small number, but if this trend multiplies in many locations, the AMA will have no choice but to change direction. At the very least, a larger proportion of the membership will be aware of the issue, and will vote differently next time.
I had a chance to ask over twenty people about their feelings on the AMA's embracing of the drones, and only one wanted to stay neutral due to marital diplomacy, while 25 AMA members decided to sign the petition in support of the open letter we have recently sent to the AMA Executive Council. This may seem like a small number, but if this trend multiplies in many locations, the AMA will have no choice but to change direction. At the very least, a larger proportion of the membership will be aware of the issue, and will vote differently next time.
while 25 AMA members decided to sign the petition
Let me ask is the Partition worded Backwards like the YES/NO Pole?
12-07-2015, 10:44 PM
#243
Hey, I'll top that...I got attacked for admitting I made the mistake..and then someone decided to say I called it my "stupid" mistake, and then went further to say I said Franklin made it too. We've both been around long enough to know people will argue and attack about virtually anything...even whether it's an argument! Just smile and move on.
And as Sheldon Cooper would ask Penny "Is That Sarcisim?"
12-08-2015, 06:28 AM
#247
12-08-2015, 06:34 AM
#248
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Maybe, Maybe "NOT" ... Poles can be Worded (Squeed) to make them prove any point the Pollsters want it to say. Who's to say. Have the AMA put out the pole on the internet and the Magazine. Well then again a lot of times only those that Don't like something i.e. in this case "DRONE Haters" might participate.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 12-08-2015 at 06:47 AM.