Sport_Pilot

Most are not that big. This covers down to a half a pound. Most of the infractions have been smaller than 5 pounds. But even a 55 pound craft would not bring down an airliner, but may bring down a smaller GA aircraft. Case in point, it has never happened, and this is too much for such a small possibility. And won't help at all.

init4fun

My friend , We do agree on the point that the registration won't help anything because the lawbreakers won't register . My bet is that the first drone that causes a mass casualty incident won't be wearing an FAA issued calling card .

But , my training as an FAA licensed A&P Mechanic tells me that anything much over 10 pounds , and certainly approaching 55 pounds , very well could cause the kind of damage we pray continues to have never happen . Of course I'll not say "Oh yea , 100% certain a 10 pound drone would be fatal to a jetliner" ... But I'll never get on board with the idea that it , under the absolute worst wrong circumstances , couldn't be .

Sport_Pilot

A large scale model hit the leading edge of a small biplane and the damage was a dented leading edge to the first spar. The pilot flew the plane home and did not bother to make an emergency landing. So I doubt a 55 pound plane would do much worse to an airliner, but of course it possibly could.

acdii

A drone getting sucked into an engine of a jet on takeoff, could be catastrophic. The Lipo battery would be the issue, not so much the drones frame, or motors, but that Lipo would burst into flames, and could cause the engine to shut down, and on a 2 engine 737, the loss of one engine on takeoff will bring it down. Considering Midway airport in Chicago is in the heart of the city, I could see this happening with some kid wanting to see a plane taking off up close and personal, without knowing anything about air turbulence from previous planes, and how it could cause the drone to go in an unintended direction.

Sport_Pilot

Doubffull, they are now designed to take an 8 pound bird strike and keep on going. But even if not there is more than one engine. Now GA planes is a different matter.

franklin_m

The piece of foam that put a hole in the leading edge of the shuttle Challenger weighed 1.67lbs and impacted the leading edge at a relative velocity between 500fps to 800fps (296kts - 473kts). A PDF copy of the analysis is provided for your convenience.

Airliners routinely exceed these speeds above 10000MSL. They can exceed 250KIAS below 10,000MSL if required for safety of flight. Military aircraft routinely exceed these speeds at altitudes as low as 500' AGL.

A 55lb sUAS impacting a full scale aircraft would result in considerable damage.

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NASA document: http://history.nasa.gov/columbia/Tro...s/FOAMIM~1.PDF

franklin_m

Concur. Sport has no understand of what even ingestion of a small bolt will do to turbine blades in a motor.

franklin_m

Concur. See above. I posted report showing that a 1.67 lb piece of foam at between 296Kts to 473Kts put a hole in the leading edge of shuttle Challenger. I can only imagine the damage a non-frangible 2-55lb sUAS would do to an aircraft.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

+1. I doubt he would want to test his theory if he were a passenger. I doubt he doesn't understand it though...

Live Wire

Well so much for the Hobby when you put Profit before the personal safety and life of your fellow man in a nonprofit organization.

init4fun

Sport's a good guy and I wouldn't want to see anyone test the theory . As Franklin pointed out with what happened to the shuttle , sometimes all it takes is something as seemingly innocent as a chunk of foam to cause disaster . The only reason that I mention my A&P training is not to brag or to try to pull some kind of rank as to who would know more about the mechanical aspects of turbine engines , it's because I saw films of exactly what even small amounts of foreign matter can do to a turbine engine , and likewise of engines that had sustained incredible damage and yet stayed running . It's truly "luck of the draw" whenever any foreign object is ingested and even though some engines survive that's no reason to believe that all turbine engines are "diesel locomotive tough" cause that's just not the case . Yes sir , the chances of an encounter are small , but increase with each and every drone that's put to the sky . The drone folks will say "but it's the same for model aircraft too !" without considering that the model aircraft will never leave it's operator's full unobstructed view whereas once the drone is BLOS there is no 360 degree view that insures it ain't 3 seconds away from disaster with a rapidly closing full scale . I do believe if a disaster of that sort is in the cards that it will be a drone and not a model aircraft that's involved . Pray it never happens , but if it does , pray also that enough healthy distance has been put between model aviation and drone ops by that time , so that our hobby may have a chance to survive . As it stands today , a horrific drone/airliner disaster would take us out as well , thanks to the presently non existent line between the two different types of flight ...

fly24-7

The airplane and helicopter crowd has been largely effective in policing itself. We didn't start showing up on The Today Show and the national news with regularity until drones entered the scene. My personal opinion, if the AMA cared about the core of it's membership, efforts would have been made to make a distinction for drones and park flyers from aircraft and helicopters and advocated unique sets of rules for each category, maybe we would have had a chance to prevent the regulation we're now all stuck with.

The scary part is that when the legislation increases, and it will since this registration scheme will likely have zero impact on curbing irresponsible activity, the drone and park-flyer crowd will easily walk away. Their investment is small. The committed and passionate will be stuck with the leftover mess. The American Way - penalize the responsible at the expense of a few boneheads...

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

You consider a mid-air acceptable? Lol

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Brag all ya want.....just don't dislocate that shoulder.

Anyone who doesn't think something like a quad won't do damage to a turbine blade is either intentionally trying not to know...or just doesn't know. The same with a 10 pound octocopter wtih a 8S 10,000 mAH pack going into a 172's windshield. Forget the big stuff though....I've seen what FOD can do to a little 5 blade EDF fan. I had a piece of wiring get ingested into my 70mm DH Vampire Jet...that fan assembly shot out like the morning after Taco Bell. Sorry init..you started in earlier with the rear end talk. The light gauge wiring was cut in two..the fan blade completely gone. I know Sport is a good dude..and I know he knows better...he's just 'avin a go.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

We may not Like it but Drones are Here. They aren't ever going away. any time soon. It's time to Embrace them so as to Educate those flying Drones to How When & Where it is acceptable to fly these New Non-Traditional R/C TOYs. This is the responsibility of all of us that fly what is referred to as "Traditional R/C Toys", to Accomplish. If we fail we will certainly have the FAA/DOT wright more legislation restricting our "Safe" From of R/C flying. The Problem will be, because of a few that will not comply with The New Requirement for Registration of Operators of any form of Outdoor R/C Aviation related activities. If we fail to Enforce & Educate these Individuals, the News Media & the Public at large, Surly the Powers That Be i.e. FAA/DOT/NTSB will not stop at simple Registration. They will wight Legislation of a much grater restrictions that may really cripple the Hobby/Sport we all enjoy so much.
Endorsement and Education is the Easiest way to preserve the Hobby/Sport that has been assaulted because of the actions a very few individuals. It's our choice as to weather we continue to fight against the coming Flood or Drones or Accept the inevitable, Continue to fight it, and suffer the consequences of further Restrictive Legislation, that will certainly be far worse and far more restrictive, than what is before us now. It's Your/Our choice Go with the flow and change it's direction or Drowned in the coming Flood.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

INIT.
If It was personal insults U think I meant. I really apologize .... but I can't help if U are so thin skinned that when anyone doesn't agree with your point of view they are attacking U Personally. I can certainly assure U that The only thing I can say about that is It's Utterly STUPID on your Part. I'm sorry but U know what they say about STUPID. Unfortunately it's Just one of the Melodies that can not be "Fixed".
Stupidity I Mean of course.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Prop_Washer2;
These Traditional R/C Flyers just don't get it. Every thing is going autonomous No Longer Controlled by a Human other told what to do. If these guys don't like drones it's their Problem...Look at modern air craft most if not all Commercial Jet and others have Flight Management systems that fly far better than any human. They also have auto land. Now Automobiles are becoming self driving (autonomous) cars Google already has a self driving vehicles out there. Maybe man caused auto crashes will become a thing of the past.

If these Traditional R/C flyers weren't so Hypocritical saying they don't like Advanced R/C devices maybe they should go back tissue and dope
the Traditional covering and 27 Mhz and 3 channel radios and give up their NON Traditional computer radios, Electric 3 Phase Motors with Battery systems with High Power and High rates of discharge and go back and Use Pre Nicad batteries. Now That's "Traditional".

init4fun

I'll bet that was a scary sound when that fan came apart ..... Ya hear the screeching crunch , ya flinch a bit , and then ya start checking to make sure there are no little pieces of blade shrapnel in your arms . Gets real quiet real quick when an EDF pukes it's fan if the outrunner bell parts company at the same time ...

Dude , really , it's got nothing to do with thin skin and everything to do with being sick and tired of being called stupid , a moron , a puppy kicker , and all the other bull stuff insults you've posted at me about this issue . Your NOT attacking views people hold , your attacking PEOPLE ! and if you can't see the difference I really ain't got much more to say to you . Do me a favor , go back and read ALL your posts here . Now pretend those were all things someone said to YOU , instead of things you've said to myself and others here who don't like your drones . Would the puppy kicker thing still be so funny to you if you were on the receiving end ?

acdii

An 8 pound bird is made of flesh and bone, an 8 pound drone has hard plastics, metal motors and Lipo batteries that will burst into an intense hot flame when the case is breached. If you think that a jet engine at takeoff power can ingest one of these, which WILL explode when it hits the first set of blades, and shatter them like glass, and survive, then you have never seen FOD damage.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It was the second flight, handpainted airframe, sweet looking plane. Just as I rotated it happened, pushed the nose down a bit to avoid the stall...I knew I couldn't hit the retracts as they were nice and scale ie slow. I was up about 10 feet and tried to feather it in...no luck. Crunched the nose and ripped out the gear. I never flew the same after that. The wire that caused the damage was a servo wire..so not that thick. I know a plastic 5 blade fan isn't exactly the blade on a 737...but the principle is the same.

Moral of the story...I was forced to get a new plane.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Google this:

http://jet engine destruction test

Or this:

http://jet engine test frozen chicken


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m7zRLJEIvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDrU22R3gg4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWzg8w-0TBI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nAc7wab-l4

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

I work at a full size airport and have seen damage cause by Bird strike, one seen where a small piece of metal came off the front landing gear on a twin, hit the prop tore it up an went thought the side of the fuselage, I think some of these drones flying as high as they do could very well kill, sure our planes could too, but we ain't dumb enough to fly them up so high!

Sport_Pilot

That was not soft plastic foam but hard ceramic foam and of considerable weight at high speed. Still if the shuttle had aborted right away it probably would have been fine. It was the lack of insulation and heat from reentry melting the structure that did the most damage

Sport_Pilot

With a toy, yes well sort of.

Sport_Pilot

Actually we do fly that high. Aerobatics up to a thousand feet and sailplanes even higher. But we do get out of the way if a low flying plane is anywhere in the sky.