porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Right, people are still going to do stupid things. This looks like a smaller "drone", toy grade, less than a pound. He got a ticket which might be the right way to go. If it was a larger unit, and he was doing something more serious, he might have been arrested.

TimJ

Place your number on the instrument panel or inside an access door for your switches and air. Better yet, do what modern warbirds do:

TimJ

Sport_Pilot

Many canopies cannot be opened with tools and if you disguise it to look like other markings, which marking is the inspector to use as the registration number?

hsukaria

Maybe the FAA should amend their regulation to allow invisible ink on scale models?

TimJ

look at the tail area of each warbird I posted........ If it's good enough for full size warbirds, its good enough for our scale models.

rcmiket

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Just got this

Dear AMA Members,
Yesterday, the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of all model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.
AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA's safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress' intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft."
The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA's petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA's interpretation of the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft." The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.
In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA's reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court's immediate attention to AMA's petition.
While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations. Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA's members strive to be a part of the solution.
As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft.
Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.
In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA's interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.
Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.
Kind regards,


The AMA Executive Council
Bob Brown, AMA President
Gary Fitch, AMA Executive Vice President
Andy Argenio, AMA Vice President, District I
Eric Williams, AMA Vice President, District II
Mark Radcliff, AMA Vice President, District III
Jay Marsh, AMA Vice President, District IV
Kris Dixon, AMA Vice President, District V
Randy Cameron, AMA Vice President, District VI
Tim Jesky, AMA Vice President, District VII
Mark Johnston, AMA Vice President, District VIII
Jim Tiller, AMA Vice President, District IX
Lawrence Tougas, AMA Vice President, District X
Chuck Bower, AMA Vice President, District XI
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Mike

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Oddly enough we just shipped our club newsletter today. The newsletter editor asked if we should remove the registration instructions from the newsletter. MY answer is a resounding NO.

While AMA EC types may have bundles of money, not every modeler in my club is wealthy enough to fight an enforcement action regardless of the outcome. It should be clear that since this requirement of FAA is a pretty clear violation of congressional passed AND SIGNED law. That does NOT mean the FAA will back off if they have a chance of nailing some poor modeler strongly enough to send a message. I don't want it to be one of my club members. This action appears to be just another one of this administrations refusal to follow existing law and making whatever rules they want.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Where does that come from...vast amounts of money...lol. Did you read what the e-mail said? It didn't say DON"T register at all...it said to sit tight until you heard back from them. Spreading misinformation isn't helpful right now. They haven't proposed anything that would get anyone in trouble.

Take it for what it's worth...it could mean that they will litigate the issue, it could mean that the FAA and the AMA is working on something behind the scenes..it could be a lot of things. Why not hold off and wait and see. We have two months before we need to register. Until then..keep calm and keep flying.

flyingchef

My Feedback: (93)

Well instead of wasting tax payer money on our model aircraft hobby perhaps the FAA should focus on higher importance issues such as fuel tanks bursting open on helicopters crashing from very low altitude, especially since the military took care of the problem since the early seventies!

franklin_m

Years ago, when I was a junior officer in a squadron, a Navy Flag taught me a critical lesson: "There are no problems that cannot be made worse."

In light of the AMA's public recommendation to hold off registration that was released earlier tonight. Ask yourself what happens if the FAA decides to respond by formally denying the AMA's written request to be named a Community Based Organization? From the FAA's perspective, there would be some poetic justice in such a move, as PL112-95 section 336 would immediately turn into a set of golden handcuffs on the AMA.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Oh, I did read it very carefully and concluded it is someone's fantasy that the FAA will not act just because the AMA does not want it to.

I strongly suggest that you check into the costs of Trappy's (the guy with the UWV post on line that got a letter from our FAA with a large fine in it) defense had the lawyer not handled it pro bono. I doubt there are enough aviation lawyers to provide help for all of us, pro bono or not.

Not registering puts you at odds with the FAA no matter what congress has said. While you may think AMA is going to protect YOU in any attempted enforcement action, I predict you will be on your own and it will not be cheap. I will not make the recommendation to folks to ignore the 900 pound gorilla, but you are welcome to join the AMA in doing just that.

Having said that I will also say that I am frequently out of step with the latest and greatest of everything, but my powder is still dry and useful.

Just food for thought.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Great points, but I think the only fantasy here is the interpretation that the AMA said not to register at all. The e-mail says nothing of the kind. It just said wait bit. There is over two months until the deadline. Nobody gets a gold start for being the first to register on 12-21 doubt the system will even be up and running at that point, or rather..it will be crashing.

Well aware of the legal fees...I've said in other threads the fees would have been in excess of 100k had Schulman and his firm not picked up the case pro bono. Pirker was the only one who walked away the winner in that case...1100 fine, and about 10,000 worth of publicity for his company. Ironic!
Ya, just a s

Sport_Pilot

Yeah, put number 12***3456y8567084whooo on your tail.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

While your point IS valid, I look at $5 being not very much to lose while the AMA gets it all together and that it protects me if they decide to do the court thing since I am sure the FAA will be enforcing right up until some judge says otherwise. That is not a fantasy, but a probable disaster in the making for those who don't consider the unintended consequence of their (in)actions. Waiting until near the deadline is a bit more expensive and puts this on the list of things that might get totally forgotten about in the new year with all the other laws and actions we need to fire off in January. If the AMA gets our number accepted, I still have that in addition to whatever the FAA gives me - and I can probably pick and choose.

My original point was lost in the shuffle. I have yet to figure out how this approach is going to improve aviation safety given that the wild bunch won't have FAA registrations anyway - or markings on their equipment. Bad actors will always be bad actors and rules are meaningless to them. Kind of like the toughest gun laws in the nation did not stop the California massacre.

rcmiket

You are 100% correct. It won't solve a thing or make the airspace any safer. Some think the threat of fines and jail time will fix the problem. We in the real world know that's just the case. We the ones who have and will follow the rules will once again will pay the price. $5.00 ( free if you choose the first 30 day option) is just the beginning and it will get worst before it gets any better,
Not doom and gloom that's just the reality of today's world.
Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

$5.00 isn't going to break the bank for anyone here, if it makes folks feel better to the be first in line to register so be it. I agree 100% with the point that was lost in the shuffle. This isn't a safety regulation although it's being done under the auspice of this. It's a feel good look what I'm doing to make things safe cover for the politicians. They are the only ones that can claim this as a "victory", everyone else got run over by the bus.

H5487

Jim states a concern that is very common throughout this thread and it's a very valid point. The guys on the Cessna 150/152 forum (many who fly R/C in addition to full-scale) have also been discussing this issue and I thought one poster did a very good job of addressing the dilemma (reprinted with permission):

I tend to agree with him. While the FAA's registration program won't stop those who are truly dedicated to causing trouble, it will likely give the rest of us something to think about before doing something stupid, That might be worth $5.00!

Harvey

ps2727

Pirker got away with doing something stupid because apparantly he didn't violate any law. That has now been fixed. After a few idiots are caught, fined, and publicized word will get out that you must follow the rules in operating any RC craft. AMA as the CBO tried to include drones but rogue operation continued to get worse, so they acted.

I want the idiots stopped more than I want to fly models without registering with the FAA.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Not only did he get away with it, he no doubt profited from it. Even with the 1100 fine, he got more publicity from that for his TBS company than he ever would putting videos online. The same of it is his flying skills were really good, the production quality of his stuff was good too. He got the ball rolling on this whole mess, but it was coming regardless.

eaglen2fb

My Feedback: (41)

Read This !
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngogl...cly-available/

H5487

Personally, I always thought that a number on my model's wing looked sorta cool.

What I AM opposed to is how the heavy-handed FAA (of which many of its own personnel grew up building model airplanes) has determined that it needs to lump all of us modelers into the cesspool of Federal Aviation Regulations (or "FARs"). Those who are full-scale pilots are well aware of the stupid. silly-assed, nit-picking regulations that full-scale pilots have to deal with. While almost none of those regulations are appropriate to modelers, it won't take long before we get sucked into them. Just think, 20 years from now, a 14 year old kid might not be allowed to fold a paper airplane without an FAA-issued Competency Certificate or even build a Guillows kit without a "Modeler's A&P License". And of course, if the TSA raids a dorm room and finds some students around a table with undocumented balsa dust, they'll likely be charged as a terrorist cell. Meanwhile, the pot party in the room next door will be perfectly legal!

It's no wonder why other countries laugh at us!!!

Harvey

H5487

I'm not surprised. Full-scale aircraft owners have had their names and addresses (no phone numbers or e-addresses) available to anyone and everyone since the agency got its first computer. Just another inkling of how "little model airplanes" are eventually going to be treated the same as Boeing 747s!

If this stupidity continues, the AMA Museum will become a true history museum of what USED to be!

Harvey

bokuda

My Feedback: (7)

I was in a large Portland, OR mall today and stopped in to a toy/hobby store that had several dozen "drone" (quad copter)) models and hundreds in stock. I talked to two of the 20 something male clerks and one of them has heard "something" about registration and neither of them have heard of the AMA. Of course they are not telling, because they don't know, customers will need to register with the FAA. That's ONE store in ONE mall in the whole country.


What a mess this is going to be. I'll bet 90% + of people who buy these will not know they are supposed to register.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

and about 70% of them will crash the offbrand stuff and not be able to get replacement parts from the kiosk at the mall they bought it from. So many of these are at best toy grade stuff. My local grocery store had a rack of them next to chips and dip.