Let's join together and refuse the FAA registration
01-06-2016, 05:03 PM
#751
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Originally Posted by HoundDog 
A simple Google search of Hobby Shops In El Paso yields this. Wonder what a search of your CC would yield?
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...rlha=0&tbm=lcl
How do U use Cash to buy over the internet. Besides most retail stores have time stamped video to day. Don't U watch CSI or 5-O ... Geese idon't U understand It would be your responsibility to prove anything was purchased be for 21 dec. with the FAA U are guilty till U prove your innocence.
If I'm approached (which I doubt will ever happen) I'll just hand them a copy of Sec. 336 which I keep handy just for fun. Now After 2-19-16 that's a different story isn't it.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 01-06-2016 at 05:10 PM.
01-06-2016, 09:25 PM
#752
Who said anything about ordering from the internet? I buy local and with cash.Video are you nuts? You cant be serious.
If I'm approached (which I doubt will ever happen) I'll just hand them a copy of Sec. 336 which I keep handy just for fun. Now After 2-19-16 that's a different story isn't it.
Mike
If I'm approached (which I doubt will ever happen) I'll just hand them a copy of Sec. 336 which I keep handy just for fun. Now After 2-19-16 that's a different story isn't it.
Mike
01-06-2016, 09:42 PM
#753
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If a person is making a choice ,by definition, it's a personal choice,
it is unnecessary to use "personal" like it gives there choice more credibility.
but no matter.
Try this on for size posted today from the FAA repeated on RC Groups
As I had anticipated to address the problem some control of drones would have to occur
at the point of purchase
Here it is:
Originally Posted by SFBC
From the beginning it's been "register your drone" and "unregister your drone." That apparently was the intent all along. This is from a speech today by FAA Administrator Michael Huerta:
"The Consumer Technology Association is leading an effort to standardize unmanned aircraft serial numbers to make it easier to identify specific aircraft. The idea here is to enable a computer app to scan an aircraft serial number and automatically populate the registration file with make, model and serial number without anyone having to manually enter the number into the system."
Perhaps this is a new direction the FAA is going in rather than requiring our registration
it is unnecessary to use "personal" like it gives there choice more credibility.
but no matter.
Try this on for size posted today from the FAA repeated on RC Groups
As I had anticipated to address the problem some control of drones would have to occur
at the point of purchase
Here it is:
Originally Posted by SFBC
From the beginning it's been "register your drone" and "unregister your drone." That apparently was the intent all along. This is from a speech today by FAA Administrator Michael Huerta:
"The Consumer Technology Association is leading an effort to standardize unmanned aircraft serial numbers to make it easier to identify specific aircraft. The idea here is to enable a computer app to scan an aircraft serial number and automatically populate the registration file with make, model and serial number without anyone having to manually enter the number into the system."
Perhaps this is a new direction the FAA is going in rather than requiring our registration
01-06-2016, 09:56 PM
#755
If a person is making a choice ,by definition, it's a personal choice,
it is unnecessary to use "personal" like it gives there choice more credibility.
but no matter.
Try this on for size posted today from the FAA repeated on RC Groups
As I had anticipated to address the problem some control of drones would have to occur
at the point of purchase
Here it is:
Originally Posted by SFBC
From the beginning it's been "register your drone" and "unregister your drone." That apparently was the intent all along. This is from a speech today by FAA Administrator Michael Huerta:
"The Consumer Technology Association is leading an effort to standardize unmanned aircraft serial numbers to make it easier to identify specific aircraft. The idea here is to enable a computer app to scan an aircraft serial number and automatically populate the registration file with make, model and serial number without anyone having to manually enter the number into the system."
Perhaps this is a new direction the FAA is going in rather than requiring our registration
it is unnecessary to use "personal" like it gives there choice more credibility.
but no matter.
Try this on for size posted today from the FAA repeated on RC Groups
As I had anticipated to address the problem some control of drones would have to occur
at the point of purchase
Here it is:
Originally Posted by SFBC
From the beginning it's been "register your drone" and "unregister your drone." That apparently was the intent all along. This is from a speech today by FAA Administrator Michael Huerta:
"The Consumer Technology Association is leading an effort to standardize unmanned aircraft serial numbers to make it easier to identify specific aircraft. The idea here is to enable a computer app to scan an aircraft serial number and automatically populate the registration file with make, model and serial number without anyone having to manually enter the number into the system."
Perhaps this is a new direction the FAA is going in rather than requiring our registration
To what end? If a serial number is not linked to any Particular FAA Registration Number i.e. a Human, It is all for naught ... Yes? NO?
But Linking a serial number to an FAA Registration Number would be contrary to #336 because in essence
U R Registering R/C TOYs.
Isn't that what we want to accomplish is catching the IDIOT that is flying his R/C TOY DRONE when where or How he is not allowed to. Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they? Y. N. will serfice here too.
Last edited by HoundDog; 01-06-2016 at 10:06 PM.
01-06-2016, 10:08 PM
#756
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I agree the information on the AMA blog is poorly written and in some places it
contradicts its' own information copied from AMA BLOG
Q: Do I as an AMA member need to register?
A: Yes. The Interim Final Rule on sUAS registration went into effect when published in the Federal Register on December 21, 2015. Modelers are given a 60-day grace period for their existing model aircraft and must register by February 19, 2016. New models acquired after December 21st must be registered before they can be flown.
Q: Do I have to register every aircraft?
A: No, you only need to register your name, physical address, and email address, but we suggest AMA members hold off on registration until advised by the AMA or the FAA legal deadline.
Q: Can I continue to fly while holding on registration?
A: Yes. Aircraft acquired before December 21, 2015, can continue to fly until the registration deadline on February 19, 2016. Aircraft acquired after December 21, 2015, must be register before you can operate it outdoors.
Looks contradictory N'est- ce pas? No?
They should say "and place your FAA registration number in each craft you fly that you owned before December 21, 2105 aircraft purchased after
12/21/2015 must be registered between 12/21/15 and 2/19/16.
That is the only way I can make sense of the AMAs instructions.
This is really funny, It is not really the aircraft that is at issue but the guidance control and perhaps by extension the radio control that is at issue.
So, if I buy a ARF plane today, with no RC equipment and put a receiver and servos I owned for 10 years it must be registered between 12/2115 to 2/19/16 but
a FPV drone I bought 3 years ago does not have to be registered until 2/19/16.
Yeah, that sounds like Washington DC logic
Wow!
contradicts its' own information copied from AMA BLOG
Q: Do I as an AMA member need to register?
A: Yes. The Interim Final Rule on sUAS registration went into effect when published in the Federal Register on December 21, 2015. Modelers are given a 60-day grace period for their existing model aircraft and must register by February 19, 2016. New models acquired after December 21st must be registered before they can be flown.
Q: Do I have to register every aircraft?
A: No, you only need to register your name, physical address, and email address, but we suggest AMA members hold off on registration until advised by the AMA or the FAA legal deadline.
Q: Can I continue to fly while holding on registration?
A: Yes. Aircraft acquired before December 21, 2015, can continue to fly until the registration deadline on February 19, 2016. Aircraft acquired after December 21, 2015, must be register before you can operate it outdoors.
Looks contradictory N'est- ce pas? No?
They should say "and place your FAA registration number in each craft you fly that you owned before December 21, 2105 aircraft purchased after
12/21/2015 must be registered between 12/21/15 and 2/19/16.
That is the only way I can make sense of the AMAs instructions.
This is really funny, It is not really the aircraft that is at issue but the guidance control and perhaps by extension the radio control that is at issue.
So, if I buy a ARF plane today, with no RC equipment and put a receiver and servos I owned for 10 years it must be registered between 12/2115 to 2/19/16 but
a FPV drone I bought 3 years ago does not have to be registered until 2/19/16.
Yeah, that sounds like Washington DC logic
Wow!
01-06-2016, 10:24 PM
#757
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The serial number on the drone will be connected to a FAA number that gets assigned at time of purchase along with
all the persons' information who buys the drone
There after I would imagine future purchases would correlate to that item and that person
This is what I predicted would happen
The FAA will take voluntary registration out of the loop
Consider the rule that says that drones purchased after 12/21/15 must register as of 12/21/15 with no grace period til 2/19/16.
But it will take time for the app and the rest of the machinery to be put in place.
So if you plan on buying a drone and not registering do it now.
Who knows when the system will be operational?
and I think you put this out tongue in cheek? I know plenty who have, those are the real quiet guys in the club now. Especially if they have showed their drone pictures to everyone. What a bunch of bananas !
Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they?
all the persons' information who buys the drone
There after I would imagine future purchases would correlate to that item and that person
This is what I predicted would happen
The FAA will take voluntary registration out of the loop
Consider the rule that says that drones purchased after 12/21/15 must register as of 12/21/15 with no grace period til 2/19/16.
But it will take time for the app and the rest of the machinery to be put in place.
So if you plan on buying a drone and not registering do it now.
Who knows when the system will be operational?
and I think you put this out tongue in cheek? I know plenty who have, those are the real quiet guys in the club now. Especially if they have showed their drone pictures to everyone. What a bunch of bananas !
Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they?
01-07-2016, 01:06 AM
#759
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01-07-2016, 04:14 AM
#760
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It's the same question if U fly anything purchased/obtained as Owner after 21 dec'15. and U have to fly it in order to be in conflict with the FAA registration. That's all I'm saying ... that said did U get a New R/C Toy for Xmas? If Yes conversation continues if NO end of disscusion.
2-It's Christmas not Xmas.
3- Your right this discussion is over.
Mike
01-07-2016, 05:52 AM
#761
Q: Can I continue to fly while holding on registration?
A: Yes. Aircraft acquired before December 21, 2015, can continue to fly until the registration deadline on February 19, 2016. Aircraft acquired after December 21, 2015, must be register before you can operate it outdoors.
A: Yes. Aircraft acquired before December 21, 2015, can continue to fly until the registration deadline on February 19, 2016. Aircraft acquired after December 21, 2015, must be register before you can operate it outdoors.
"§ 48.5 Compliance dates.
(a) Small unmanned aircraft used exclusively as model aircraft. For small unmanned aircraft operated [emphasis added] by the current owner prior to December 21, 2015, compliance with the requirements of this part or part 47 is required no later than February 19, 2016. For all other small unmanned aircraft, compliance with this part isrequired priorto operation of the small unmanned aircraft."
So it's not whether you"acquired" it before 21 December as the AMA has said, but it's rather whether you've "operated" it. At least if the AMA was going to provide information to its members that has legal consequences, you'd think they'd at least make sure they properly quote the rule.
01-07-2016, 06:04 AM
#762
The serial number on the drone will be connected to a FAA number that gets assigned at time of purchase along with
all the persons' information who buys the drone
There after I would imagine future purchases would correlate to that item and that person
This is what I predicted would happen
The FAA will take voluntary registration out of the loop
Consider the rule that says that drones purchased after 12/21/15 must register as of 12/21/15 with no grace period til 2/19/16.
But it will take time for the app and the rest of the machinery to be put in place.
So if you plan on buying a drone and not registering do it now.
Who knows when the system will be operational?
and I think you put this out tongue in cheek? I know plenty who have, those are the real quiet guys in the club now. Especially if they have showed their drone pictures to everyone. What a bunch of bananas !
Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they?
all the persons' information who buys the drone
There after I would imagine future purchases would correlate to that item and that person
This is what I predicted would happen
The FAA will take voluntary registration out of the loop
Consider the rule that says that drones purchased after 12/21/15 must register as of 12/21/15 with no grace period til 2/19/16.
But it will take time for the app and the rest of the machinery to be put in place.
So if you plan on buying a drone and not registering do it now.
Who knows when the system will be operational?
and I think you put this out tongue in cheek? I know plenty who have, those are the real quiet guys in the club now. Especially if they have showed their drone pictures to everyone. What a bunch of bananas !
Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they?
01-07-2016, 06:34 AM
#763
The serial number on the drone will be connected to a FAA number that gets assigned at time of purchase along with
all the persons' information who buys the drone
I doubt it it would be too much of a burden on the seller that's why they went with Registering Owner/Pilots In the first place.
There after I would imagine future purchases would correlate to that item and that person
This is what I predicted would happen
Can U imagine the complexity of keeping such a system up to date. Impossible. There were as of 2014 just 7523 registered air carrier panes in the US registry and 199,927 General aviation[SUP]b[/SUP] (active fleet) for a total of 207,450 Total US registered
aircraft (Excluding military). For the last 7 or so years the FAA at oklahoma city
have shut down the whole registration almost weekly just to keep up with the Updates.
Can U see the complexity of keeping track who owns What with a Million and a half R/C TOY air vehicles out there. Impossible to accomplish with the present system.
The FAA will take voluntary registration out of the loop
Consider the rule that says that drones purchased after 12/21/15 must register as of 12/21/15 with no grace period til 2/19/16.
But it will take time for the app and the rest of the machinery to be put in place.
So if you plan on buying a drone and not registering do it now.
Who knows when the system will be operational?
NEVER Will not work, for many reasons.
and I think you put this out tongue in cheek? I know plenty who have, those are the real quiet guys in the club now. Especially if they have showed their drone pictures to everyone. What a bunch of bananas !
Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they?
all the persons' information who buys the drone
I doubt it it would be too much of a burden on the seller that's why they went with Registering Owner/Pilots In the first place.
There after I would imagine future purchases would correlate to that item and that person
This is what I predicted would happen
Can U imagine the complexity of keeping such a system up to date. Impossible. There were as of 2014 just 7523 registered air carrier panes in the US registry and 199,927 General aviation[SUP]b[/SUP] (active fleet) for a total of 207,450 Total US registered
aircraft (Excluding military). For the last 7 or so years the FAA at oklahoma city
have shut down the whole registration almost weekly just to keep up with the Updates.
Can U see the complexity of keeping track who owns What with a Million and a half R/C TOY air vehicles out there. Impossible to accomplish with the present system.
The FAA will take voluntary registration out of the loop
Consider the rule that says that drones purchased after 12/21/15 must register as of 12/21/15 with no grace period til 2/19/16.
But it will take time for the app and the rest of the machinery to be put in place.
So if you plan on buying a drone and not registering do it now.
Who knows when the system will be operational?
NEVER Will not work, for many reasons.
and I think you put this out tongue in cheek? I know plenty who have, those are the real quiet guys in the club now. Especially if they have showed their drone pictures to everyone. What a bunch of bananas !
Of course no self respecting AMA member would ever do anything not in accordance with the AMA's Safety code, Now Would they?
Jeffy U got one right ... It was sarcastic because U know no AMA member ever breaks the rules or the AMA safety code. LOL As an example I'll wager that less than half of all AMA members have their AMA info in all their R/C TOYs. What ya think U got all your TOYs marked with your AMA info? Y or N? will suffice. No Long explanation required.
01-07-2016, 08:01 AM
#764
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Well, they were in such a hurry to get the info out and avoid being lynched and
most importantly they didn't want to lose their expense accounts or jobs.
So, a little quality control was sacrificed , No big deal right?
Wrong
most importantly they didn't want to lose their expense accounts or jobs.
So, a little quality control was sacrificed , No big deal right?
Wrong
01-07-2016, 08:05 AM
#765
It's the same question if U fly anything purchased/obtained as Owner after 21 dec'15. and U have to fly it in order to be in conflict with the FAA registration. That's all I'm saying ... that said did U get a New R/C Toy for Xmas? If Yes conversation continues if NO end of disscusion.
Just tell tell em it was a gift given before the registration requirement. They won't be checking anyway.
01-07-2016, 08:35 AM
#766
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Bought and ARF Mustang on 12/21/15 at 11:13 am
when did the FAA first get the announcement out ?
Do you remember the date and time, we're talking seconds here, I could get in
under the requiremt
Like I really give a flying act of fornication?
when did the FAA first get the announcement out ?
Do you remember the date and time, we're talking seconds here, I could get in
under the requiremt
Like I really give a flying act of fornication?
01-08-2016, 08:04 AM
#767
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I say we ban together and let FAA know that they can't control everything. refuse the registration process !!
you can email FAA and voice your concerns. Let's plaster their mail server . !!! https://www.faa.gov/contact/safety_hotline/
you can email FAA and voice your concerns. Let's plaster their mail server . !!! https://www.faa.gov/contact/safety_hotline/
01-08-2016, 02:42 PM
#768
The 12/21 rule was just another insult on our intelligence that show how inept the FAA really is. How can they prove that you acquired an aircraft after 12/21???? THEY CAN'T! Or at least legally prove it. They are just playing with the emotions of newbie drone owners and as I said, adding insult to us who have been in the hobby for many years.
01-08-2016, 03:06 PM
#769
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I agree but registration is more insidious than most guys realize.
When an agency plans on large restrictions, they never lead with the
most objectionable one, they present the easiest one first, the restriction that would
potentially be viewed by many, as simple, easy to do , and innocent. If you have
read a few post you will see that several somnambulists chastise anyone
who would not register. I won't go into their possible motives or character flaws in these people.
I have spent sufficient time addressing that. Their suggestions place us in the worst bargaining position, possible.
I hope that my efforts have persuaded some, that have been confused or ill informed, at the very
least I hope that I have verbally beat the snot out of these guys and caused a diminishment, in their posting what I consider detrimental advice.
I offer the science experiment of the two frogs and the hot water.
Perhaps you know it, but I will present it.
Two pots of water, two flames under each, two frogs.
Pot #1 the water is room temperature frog placed in pot, flame gradually heats water to near boiling
Pot #2 the water is near boiling point when the frog is placed in it .
Results : Pot #1 frog #1 gradually acclimates to a gradually worsening environment and is boiled to death.
Results Pot #2 frog #2 frog #2 reflexively jumps out of the pot and survives.
How does this relate to us? We've got too many frog #1 types in this hobby and hopefully, enough frog #2 types to prevent degradation
to our flying environment.
but at least, in the experiment frog #1 didn't try to persuade frog #2 to get back in the pot, as some of our members have tried. ,
When an agency plans on large restrictions, they never lead with the
most objectionable one, they present the easiest one first, the restriction that would
potentially be viewed by many, as simple, easy to do , and innocent. If you have
read a few post you will see that several somnambulists chastise anyone
who would not register. I won't go into their possible motives or character flaws in these people.
I have spent sufficient time addressing that. Their suggestions place us in the worst bargaining position, possible.
I hope that my efforts have persuaded some, that have been confused or ill informed, at the very
least I hope that I have verbally beat the snot out of these guys and caused a diminishment, in their posting what I consider detrimental advice.
I offer the science experiment of the two frogs and the hot water.
Perhaps you know it, but I will present it.
Two pots of water, two flames under each, two frogs.
Pot #1 the water is room temperature frog placed in pot, flame gradually heats water to near boiling
Pot #2 the water is near boiling point when the frog is placed in it .
Results : Pot #1 frog #1 gradually acclimates to a gradually worsening environment and is boiled to death.
Results Pot #2 frog #2 frog #2 reflexively jumps out of the pot and survives.
How does this relate to us? We've got too many frog #1 types in this hobby and hopefully, enough frog #2 types to prevent degradation
to our flying environment.
but at least, in the experiment frog #1 didn't try to persuade frog #2 to get back in the pot, as some of our members have tried. ,
Last edited by jeffrey solomon; 01-08-2016 at 09:28 PM.
01-08-2016, 09:17 PM
#772
Count down Timer till mandatory FAA Registration
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160221T00&p0=853&msg=Mandatory+FAA+Registration&font=serif
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160221T00&p0=853&msg=Mandatory+FAA+Registration&font=serif
Last edited by HoundDog; 01-08-2016 at 09:19 PM.
01-20-2016, 09:55 PM
#773
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The biggest point that has been missed is your personal liability insurance provided by your homeowner's or renter's policy that provides you coverage while flying RC models. It only extendes your liability coverage to flying PROVIDING you are not violating any laws and are doing it with the property owner's permission. If you don't register you are violating a federal law and you will not have coverage from your's or the AMA's insurance policy. I learned this talking to underwriters when I was getting a written statement of coverage to provide to a land owner to fly my jets on his private airport. I would be concerned less with whether you flew above 400' and being "caught" then accidentally hurting someone or something and not having insurance. So for those that think not registering is just a matter of civil disobedience, you are betting you won't be involved in an accident. No thanks. This is a hobby and I am not betting my home and finances by flying without coverage.
01-20-2016, 11:08 PM
#774
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You may not know but, homeowners or renter's insurance for a large majority of carriers, will not cover you for accidents involving RC models.
Insurance companies deem model airplanes in the same category as full scale planes, guess they have taken the lead from the FAA.
So the information we have heard repeated for years and years, by the AMA and people who parrot what they are told with out investigating or
thinking just ain't so. So the AMA is the only policy to cover you.
Since the AMA has half-heartedly opposed the FAA yes that's right the AMA has been giving double talk, and streamlining the procedure.
They have never acted in a leadership role, they are equivocators and have played us for fools.
Like your statement
"
"this is a hobby and I am not betting my home and finances by flying without coverage." guess what ,if your field FAILS to pass AMA inspection
or the coverage is insufficient to mitigate damages, then you have and are betting you home and finances every time you fly you just were
asleep and didn't know, Check it out see if I am wrong.
We got a real bunch of fools in this hobby, they sound like they might have some brains but they are just arrogant.
How about when someone mentions legal action and the statement is made:
"YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO SUE A GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY"
No, tell me genius ,how much does it cost to sue a governmental agency?
Do you know,,...$10,000,,50,000,,150,000 $1Million
no figures just talk that's what you hear.
Have you looked at the lawsuit brought by AMA with the firm of Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP. on 8/22/14
Well here it is How much do you think the research and preparation really cost?
If the AMA was charged more than $10,000 for the brief and court time we got ripped off.
Here it is the site:
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/A...MApetition.pdf
case 14-1158 United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
I was told another action more recently was started by the AMA.
Where is it? Can't find the District Court Number for any case in 2015 or 2016 ?
6 pages that's it
It looks like the pressure to register is not coming the FAA but more immediately, from our own clubs who, since there is no direction from the AMA have decided to fend for themselves and require members to register to avoid prooooooblllleeemmms.
Well thank the AMA at least they got the registration process
STREAMLINED
YEAH !!!!!
Insurance companies deem model airplanes in the same category as full scale planes, guess they have taken the lead from the FAA.
So the information we have heard repeated for years and years, by the AMA and people who parrot what they are told with out investigating or
thinking just ain't so. So the AMA is the only policy to cover you.
Since the AMA has half-heartedly opposed the FAA yes that's right the AMA has been giving double talk, and streamlining the procedure.
They have never acted in a leadership role, they are equivocators and have played us for fools.
Like your statement
"
"this is a hobby and I am not betting my home and finances by flying without coverage." guess what ,if your field FAILS to pass AMA inspection
or the coverage is insufficient to mitigate damages, then you have and are betting you home and finances every time you fly you just were
asleep and didn't know, Check it out see if I am wrong.
We got a real bunch of fools in this hobby, they sound like they might have some brains but they are just arrogant.
How about when someone mentions legal action and the statement is made:
"YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO SUE A GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY"
No, tell me genius ,how much does it cost to sue a governmental agency?
Do you know,,...$10,000,,50,000,,150,000 $1Million
no figures just talk that's what you hear.
Have you looked at the lawsuit brought by AMA with the firm of Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP. on 8/22/14
Well here it is How much do you think the research and preparation really cost?
If the AMA was charged more than $10,000 for the brief and court time we got ripped off.
Here it is the site:
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/A...MApetition.pdf
case 14-1158 United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
I was told another action more recently was started by the AMA.
Where is it? Can't find the District Court Number for any case in 2015 or 2016 ?
6 pages that's it
It looks like the pressure to register is not coming the FAA but more immediately, from our own clubs who, since there is no direction from the AMA have decided to fend for themselves and require members to register to avoid prooooooblllleeemmms.
Well thank the AMA at least they got the registration process
STREAMLINED
YEAH !!!!!