AMA executive council accountability
12-27-2015, 05:08 PM
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AMA executive council accountability
I'm not going to go on and on, as a lot of you have already done an admirable job of making some very good points both logical and political concerning the registration fiasco. Most of us agree that the current Federal Administration has egregiously over reached in many areas with regulations and court rulings that have negatively impacted personal freedoms. The most recent and worst of them all is the prohibition of employers to exclude convicted felons from employment. Texas is currently suing the EEOC and the Obama administration to be allowed to exclude convicted felons from jobs as teachers and first responders. Where is it going to end?!?! Anyway, here's my 2 cents worth -
AMA should've never endorsed or supported FPV or Drones as they do not reflect the TYPE of flying that AMA and the membership have traditionally embraced. Just because a new technology is available, doesn't mean it fits with previously existing environments. For years there were many clubs that excluded helicopters at their fields because of the difference in the flight parameters - they didn't fit. That's why there's IRHCA. That's why there's IMAC. I think they (AMA EC) jumped on the drone bandwagon looking to cash in on a potential revenue stream instead of protecting the "modelers". They came up with a different class for the park fliers, if they wanted to bring them into the AMA fold they should've done the same for the drones. I don't know how many of the "new drone owners" from this holiday season are going to join AMA, but I bet the number is close to zero. Instead, what they accomplished, was to lump us all together and not just blur the line between models and drones, but completely erase it. Why would/should we (AMA members) spend a million dollars to protect a class of RCers that have no intention of embracing anything that we do or stand for???? The mess we're in now was completely avoidable. The AMA EC is to blame for making poor decisions in the beginning that led us down this road. Had we circled the wagons and clearly said that drones are not "model aircraft" the registration fiasco would more likely be focused where it belongs. If the EC has not figured out their error, we should identify those who are specifically responsible for making those decisions and make sure we replace them with modelers who protect OUR interests and not those who operate outside our organization.
AMA should've never endorsed or supported FPV or Drones as they do not reflect the TYPE of flying that AMA and the membership have traditionally embraced. Just because a new technology is available, doesn't mean it fits with previously existing environments. For years there were many clubs that excluded helicopters at their fields because of the difference in the flight parameters - they didn't fit. That's why there's IRHCA. That's why there's IMAC. I think they (AMA EC) jumped on the drone bandwagon looking to cash in on a potential revenue stream instead of protecting the "modelers". They came up with a different class for the park fliers, if they wanted to bring them into the AMA fold they should've done the same for the drones. I don't know how many of the "new drone owners" from this holiday season are going to join AMA, but I bet the number is close to zero. Instead, what they accomplished, was to lump us all together and not just blur the line between models and drones, but completely erase it. Why would/should we (AMA members) spend a million dollars to protect a class of RCers that have no intention of embracing anything that we do or stand for???? The mess we're in now was completely avoidable. The AMA EC is to blame for making poor decisions in the beginning that led us down this road. Had we circled the wagons and clearly said that drones are not "model aircraft" the registration fiasco would more likely be focused where it belongs. If the EC has not figured out their error, we should identify those who are specifically responsible for making those decisions and make sure we replace them with modelers who protect OUR interests and not those who operate outside our organization.
12-27-2015, 06:21 PM
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We we fail again if we allow them to continue down this path. I'm not calling for their resignation unless they deny their culpability.
12-27-2015, 10:05 PM
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I'm sure the first place the EC will go to is a thread here on RCU to deny culpability. Historically they do their business here?
I'll give you this, unlike most who just assign blame solely to the AMA, at least you have accepted some measure of responsibility as well. You're off base about them acting "alone" in making decision, what does that even mean? At the very least it's a group of people making decisions, not a single person. But let's not split hairs.
Others have and will complain about the past, just as you have done here. Why didn't they, they should have, etc etc. Interesting to see the complaints now, where have you personally been on this issue over the past say...3 years as it was unfolding. What specifically were you doing all this time. What exactly are you proposing now on a go forward basis, other than "not calling for their resignation". A letter writing campaign? A change.org sign up? Other than complain and blame, what exactly should they do to hopefully keep from being asked to resign? Don't say ban drones, won't make a difference. Don't say ban multi-rotors, won't make a difference. Finally how will you be involved going forward, will it entail being personally involved, running for some type of AMA office in order to make change, or will it just be comments on a thread in RCU. Not saying that doesn't count for something, but really, how will that effect specific change?
PS...did you vote in the last elections for your district ?
I'll give you this, unlike most who just assign blame solely to the AMA, at least you have accepted some measure of responsibility as well. You're off base about them acting "alone" in making decision, what does that even mean? At the very least it's a group of people making decisions, not a single person. But let's not split hairs.
Others have and will complain about the past, just as you have done here. Why didn't they, they should have, etc etc. Interesting to see the complaints now, where have you personally been on this issue over the past say...3 years as it was unfolding. What specifically were you doing all this time. What exactly are you proposing now on a go forward basis, other than "not calling for their resignation". A letter writing campaign? A change.org sign up? Other than complain and blame, what exactly should they do to hopefully keep from being asked to resign? Don't say ban drones, won't make a difference. Don't say ban multi-rotors, won't make a difference. Finally how will you be involved going forward, will it entail being personally involved, running for some type of AMA office in order to make change, or will it just be comments on a thread in RCU. Not saying that doesn't count for something, but really, how will that effect specific change?
PS...did you vote in the last elections for your district ?
12-28-2015, 01:12 AM
#5
Porcia, according to you most folks [like you] are too busy to build a model, so where do you propose the spare time comes from to take any of the useless actions that you just suggested....?
Do you REALLY think that the average guy who is not connected with the model industry in some way is going to quit his career [and pension program] so that he can take your advice...?
You can't be serious.
Do you REALLY think that the average guy who is not connected with the model industry in some way is going to quit his career [and pension program] so that he can take your advice...?
You can't be serious.
12-28-2015, 05:20 AM
#6
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Well, where to start. I guess it all starts with building eh? Gotta start there I guess, with some that's the holy grail of RC. That you derive such pleasure from it is really fantastic, I mean that. The hobby is so much more than that, I prefer to look at it this way, if someone is in the hobby and enjoying themselves that's good enough for me. Personal preference and all right? But I was spurred on by earlier discussions with you on this topic, so I bought a kit which I'll start someday soon. Also, I did an easier "build" and actually it's up on the front page now, First steps and all. Why don't you submit some of your own. Also, I'll be looking for some advice later today on how to modify my Telemaster, hope you might help if you can.
Useless actions, ya...there have been many of those suggested in the threads of late. Where you referring to the letter writing campaigns, or the Change.org petitions? Yes, I agree, almost completely useless in and of themselves. I could have swore though that you cheered on those folks when they did them. They have all pretty much petered out, the campaigns are pretty much over, but hey, at least those guys tried something rather than just complain on an RC site.
Now who is doing some spinning here, I never said anything about an average guy not connected with the hobby quitting anything. Who is this average guy you speak of. Surely someone complaining about the AMA Leadership on a RC modeling website isn't an average guy not connected with the hobby are they?
I get the OP's complaint and frustration, and you are in full agreement of course. I'm wondering though, what is a thread like this suppose to do? Whats the endgame? You welcome him to this thread and this "side", already drawing up an us versus them scenario. That is useful how? We are all actually on the same side here, we're mostly AMA members and hobbyists who don't like whats going on over the past few years with our hobby.
When I see someone complaining about holding another person or group accountable for something (and in this case something somewhat out of the AMA's control), I think it's natural to look for more than just a complaint about something that's happened in the past. The past is the past, nothing can change that. I see all these threads like this filled with complaints, but almost no suggestions on what to do going forward. No solutions. just angry empty rhetoric with no answers. If they are just rants, well that's fine and good. If they are calls to action, I think its fair to ask specifically what those actions are, and how the OP will go about implementing them.
Hope you enjoyed the holidays, there's one left coming up! Our first event of the year is 1-1, hopefully the weather holds out.
Useless actions, ya...there have been many of those suggested in the threads of late. Where you referring to the letter writing campaigns, or the Change.org petitions? Yes, I agree, almost completely useless in and of themselves. I could have swore though that you cheered on those folks when they did them. They have all pretty much petered out, the campaigns are pretty much over, but hey, at least those guys tried something rather than just complain on an RC site.
Now who is doing some spinning here, I never said anything about an average guy not connected with the hobby quitting anything. Who is this average guy you speak of. Surely someone complaining about the AMA Leadership on a RC modeling website isn't an average guy not connected with the hobby are they?
I get the OP's complaint and frustration, and you are in full agreement of course. I'm wondering though, what is a thread like this suppose to do? Whats the endgame? You welcome him to this thread and this "side", already drawing up an us versus them scenario. That is useful how? We are all actually on the same side here, we're mostly AMA members and hobbyists who don't like whats going on over the past few years with our hobby.
When I see someone complaining about holding another person or group accountable for something (and in this case something somewhat out of the AMA's control), I think it's natural to look for more than just a complaint about something that's happened in the past. The past is the past, nothing can change that. I see all these threads like this filled with complaints, but almost no suggestions on what to do going forward. No solutions. just angry empty rhetoric with no answers. If they are just rants, well that's fine and good. If they are calls to action, I think its fair to ask specifically what those actions are, and how the OP will go about implementing them.
Hope you enjoyed the holidays, there's one left coming up! Our first event of the year is 1-1, hopefully the weather holds out.
12-28-2015, 08:25 AM
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People in the SW will have a chance to vent face to face with AMA Leadership at the AMA Expo starting a week from Friday at the Ontario, CA Convention center. There is a general membership meeting and the entire EC will be at the show as well. Here is you chance to talk to them face to face rather than simply venting on the Interwebs.
12-28-2015, 12:02 PM
#9
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Exactly. Wish I could be there to see it live. I suspect most of the complaints will be those lodged here that will be based in the "ban this or that"....or " wish things were like the old days" category. Little in the way of helpful suggestions on how to manage this change going forward, but hey that might happen. Wonder if they are prepping for the questions like the candidates do before debates. I don't think this will be an easy expo for them.
12-28-2015, 01:03 PM
#11
People in the SW will have a chance to vent face to face with AMA Leadership at the AMA Expo starting a week from Friday at the Ontario, CA Convention center. There is a general membership meeting and the entire EC will be at the show as well. Here is you chance to talk to them face to face rather than simply venting on the Interwebs.
I think due to past (incorrect) actions, our course of action is now set, but we need different leadership moving forward.
With the coming lawsuits, there will be a lot of decisions that the AMA will need to make and I don't want the same people making them.
Accountability, in simpler words. I believe many AMA members share my feelings.
12-28-2015, 05:17 PM
#14
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When you double down and thrash about it's even funnier, but I do feel for you. You take the time to stalk me and count how much time I spend on here, and my posts, and try to editorialize them (all the while incorrect), and you want to preach about use of time? Guess the building is taking a back seat, congrats on the 19581 posting mark. Quite an achievement. It feel nothing but pity watching you get more consumed. But carry on as you see fit, if that's what drives you have at it. Avoid the issues, attack the messenger. Oh well.
12-28-2015, 05:23 PM
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I'm sure the first place the EC will go to is a thread here on RCU to deny culpability. Historically they do their business here?
I'll give you this, unlike most who just assign blame solely to the AMA, at least you have accepted some measure of responsibility as well. You're off base about them acting "alone" in making decision, what does that even mean? At the very least it's a group of people making decisions, not a single person. But let's not split hairs.
Others have and will complain about the past, just as you have done here. Why didn't they, they should have, etc etc. Interesting to see the complaints now, where have you personally been on this issue over the past say...3 years as it was unfolding. What specifically were you doing all this time. What exactly are you proposing now on a go forward basis, other than "not calling for their resignation". A letter writing campaign? A change.org sign up? Other than complain and blame, what exactly should they do to hopefully keep from being asked to resign? Don't say ban drones, won't make a difference. Don't say ban multi-rotors, won't make a difference. Finally how will you be involved going forward, will it entail being personally involved, running for some type of AMA office in order to make change, or will it just be comments on a thread in RCU. Not saying that doesn't count for something, but really, how will that effect specific change?
PS...did you vote in the last elections for your district ?
I'll give you this, unlike most who just assign blame solely to the AMA, at least you have accepted some measure of responsibility as well. You're off base about them acting "alone" in making decision, what does that even mean? At the very least it's a group of people making decisions, not a single person. But let's not split hairs.
Others have and will complain about the past, just as you have done here. Why didn't they, they should have, etc etc. Interesting to see the complaints now, where have you personally been on this issue over the past say...3 years as it was unfolding. What specifically were you doing all this time. What exactly are you proposing now on a go forward basis, other than "not calling for their resignation". A letter writing campaign? A change.org sign up? Other than complain and blame, what exactly should they do to hopefully keep from being asked to resign? Don't say ban drones, won't make a difference. Don't say ban multi-rotors, won't make a difference. Finally how will you be involved going forward, will it entail being personally involved, running for some type of AMA office in order to make change, or will it just be comments on a thread in RCU. Not saying that doesn't count for something, but really, how will that effect specific change?
PS...did you vote in the last elections for your district ?
12-28-2015, 05:38 PM
#17
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Yes sir, I did vote. I always vote. And I made my opinions known to our VP. I don't just sit back and say what should've been done. But, my opinions fell on deaf ears. what does acting alone mean? Really? It means they acted without seeking the opinions of those they represent. Going forward? I thought I made that abundantly clear. They either face up to the mistake of not seeking the membership's guidance and following the wishes of the majority or they should resign or be asked to resign by the membership. What will I do in the future?? I'm currently seeking to find out if mine is the majority opinion or the minority. If the majority agree with me, then I will be glad to lead the movement for change. And just so you'll know that your questions are coming from an uninformed, assumptive perspective, I also posted the exact same message on the AMA forum here, and I'm going to post it on the AMA website. I'm not afraid to voice my opinions, because I base them on what I see, or what I know. I'm also ready to admit when I'm wrong or when my opinions do not reflect the norm. If that's the case, then I do what I recommend to others that find themselves in a similar situation - keep my mouth shut and get along.
12-28-2015, 06:02 PM
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My take is the same as most of the guys on this forum,the AMA has let us down. They saw fit to embrace the Drones, only to try to make more money and it ended up hurting the ones of us that only fly for fun. My question to you porcia, do you ever fly planes or are you a drone jocky? You seem to spend a lot of time on the keyboard!
12-28-2015, 06:12 PM
#19
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My take is the same as most of the guys on this forum,the AMA has let us down. They saw fit to embrace the Drones, only to try to make more money and it ended up hurting the ones of us that only fly for fun. My question to you porcia, do you ever fly planes or are you a drone jocky? You seem to spend a lot of time on the keyboard!
Although you should know from following along with my posts, I don't do drones, or quads, or even helis. Don't care for them in the least. I'm fixed wing all the way baby...from ultra micro, to ADF, up to my giant scale stuff ( all electric). Howsbout you? Would I be wrong to guess you're into Warbirds and scale stuff like J-3 Cubs etc? Those are great too.
12-28-2015, 06:30 PM
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Yes you are wrong on Warbirds and scale, I fly 3D and Bi-Planes. The only reson I look on here is because I can't fly at night, but I fly everyday weather permiting, do you. I love this hobby but AMA is not helping us to keep it!
12-28-2015, 06:42 PM
#22
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Just to be sure, I'm joking...it's all good. I also firmly believe no matter what you fly, if you enjoy it and are safe, there is a place for that a club, no matter how big or small.