Never before have I ever seen anything like this
#76
#78
My Feedback: (2)
I'm a club officer for our club here, we've been discussing this quite a bit....Here is my current take on it...
- AMA says that clubs are not required to require FAA registration from there members
- FAA has not said that community based organizations are required to police their own. The onus/responsibility is on the operator and only the operator.
- Local PD and DOT's do not have the authority to enforce the federal regulations put forward. The only thing they can do is contact the FAA and request the FAA investigate using the FAA's resources...and even then, according to the rules.. see #2, its the responsibility of the pilot, not the club according to current FAA rules.
- The FAA proposed regulations are not set in stone and won't be here for several years.
To jump and modify club by-laws to try and hit a moving target where it has clearly been stated that as of now the clubs have no need to do so seems a bit irresponsible to me. The ball is still in the air, we don't know where it is going to land, yet while it is in the air we are going to make our members jump through hoops that likely are going to change in the coming months. Bye bye members...
at some point a by-law update may be needed, but things are going to change, and until the dust settles I don't think it is prudent to go whacking away at the rules....
- AMA says that clubs are not required to require FAA registration from there members
- FAA has not said that community based organizations are required to police their own. The onus/responsibility is on the operator and only the operator.
- Local PD and DOT's do not have the authority to enforce the federal regulations put forward. The only thing they can do is contact the FAA and request the FAA investigate using the FAA's resources...and even then, according to the rules.. see #2, its the responsibility of the pilot, not the club according to current FAA rules.
- The FAA proposed regulations are not set in stone and won't be here for several years.
To jump and modify club by-laws to try and hit a moving target where it has clearly been stated that as of now the clubs have no need to do so seems a bit irresponsible to me. The ball is still in the air, we don't know where it is going to land, yet while it is in the air we are going to make our members jump through hoops that likely are going to change in the coming months. Bye bye members...
at some point a by-law update may be needed, but things are going to change, and until the dust settles I don't think it is prudent to go whacking away at the rules....
#79
I'm a club officer for our club here, we've been discussing this quite a bit....Here is my current take on it...
- AMA says that clubs are not required to require FAA registration from there members
That doesn't mean they can't. I don't know about your club, but my club is incorporated in our state as a non-profit corporation making us a legal business entity. The primary role of the officers is to protect the assets of the corporation and to operate in the best interests of the corporation. It's important to understand that the AMA does not provide legal advice to clubs. In some cases, legal advice can vary by state. What the AMA has not told anyone is what happens to the corporation (i.e., club) if someone who is not registered causes an accident? Can the club be held accountable for knowingly letting that member fly unregistered or not verifying registration knowing it's a federal requirement? Is the AMA going to pickup the club's legal fees should such an event occur?
In the litigious society we live in it seems like a no brainer to make it a club requirement to protect the best interests of the club. If registration is no longer required at some point in the future (which I hope) just throw it out in the trash. In the meantime it's simple to collect each member's FAA registration number. Many clubs in my area have already made it a requirement.
- FAA has not said that community based organizations are required to police their own. The onus/responsibility is on the operator and only the operator.
- Local PD and DOT's do not have the authority to enforce the federal regulations put forward. The only thing they can do is contact the FAA and request the FAA investigate using the FAA's resources...and even then, according to the rules.. see #2, its the responsibility of the pilot, not the club according to current FAA rules.
- The FAA proposed regulations are not set in stone and won't be here for several years.
To jump and modify club by-laws to try and hit a moving target where it has clearly been stated that as of now the clubs have no need to do so seems a bit irresponsible to me. The ball is still in the air, we don't know where it is going to land, yet while it is in the air we are going to make our members jump through hoops that likely are going to change in the coming months. Bye bye members...
at some point a by-law update may be needed, but things are going to change, and until the dust settles I don't think it is prudent to go whacking away at the rules....
- AMA says that clubs are not required to require FAA registration from there members
That doesn't mean they can't. I don't know about your club, but my club is incorporated in our state as a non-profit corporation making us a legal business entity. The primary role of the officers is to protect the assets of the corporation and to operate in the best interests of the corporation. It's important to understand that the AMA does not provide legal advice to clubs. In some cases, legal advice can vary by state. What the AMA has not told anyone is what happens to the corporation (i.e., club) if someone who is not registered causes an accident? Can the club be held accountable for knowingly letting that member fly unregistered or not verifying registration knowing it's a federal requirement? Is the AMA going to pickup the club's legal fees should such an event occur?
In the litigious society we live in it seems like a no brainer to make it a club requirement to protect the best interests of the club. If registration is no longer required at some point in the future (which I hope) just throw it out in the trash. In the meantime it's simple to collect each member's FAA registration number. Many clubs in my area have already made it a requirement.
- FAA has not said that community based organizations are required to police their own. The onus/responsibility is on the operator and only the operator.
- Local PD and DOT's do not have the authority to enforce the federal regulations put forward. The only thing they can do is contact the FAA and request the FAA investigate using the FAA's resources...and even then, according to the rules.. see #2, its the responsibility of the pilot, not the club according to current FAA rules.
- The FAA proposed regulations are not set in stone and won't be here for several years.
To jump and modify club by-laws to try and hit a moving target where it has clearly been stated that as of now the clubs have no need to do so seems a bit irresponsible to me. The ball is still in the air, we don't know where it is going to land, yet while it is in the air we are going to make our members jump through hoops that likely are going to change in the coming months. Bye bye members...
at some point a by-law update may be needed, but things are going to change, and until the dust settles I don't think it is prudent to go whacking away at the rules....
#80
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: , CA
Posts: 129
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Using your own childish analogy, how safe is your SSN, credit card number, your driver's license, or your bank account number? Ever write a check? Ever eat out and hand your credit card to a waiter/waitress? How about a gas attendant? Ever put your SSN or driver's license number on a job application? Ever visit the doctor? Ever ordering anything over the phone or on the web? Do you get mail delivered to your residence?
#81
#82
So far, several have expressed that they have seen My point.
I saw your point, it didn't make any realistic sense. I asked several realistic questions, none of which you answered.
You're the only one who has expressed a problem with it. What does that tell You?
What do you think it tells you? Do you think everyone here has the same life experiences? Performs the same job duties? Has the same educational and professional experience?
I just try to add substance to the conversation. Food for thought. Many are still on the fence about registering for several reasons. Not hard to understand.
The choice is yours.
I saw your point, it didn't make any realistic sense. I asked several realistic questions, none of which you answered.
You're the only one who has expressed a problem with it. What does that tell You?
What do you think it tells you? Do you think everyone here has the same life experiences? Performs the same job duties? Has the same educational and professional experience?
I just try to add substance to the conversation. Food for thought. Many are still on the fence about registering for several reasons. Not hard to understand.
The choice is yours.
#83
#84
FWIW, I asked the AMA about this and got this answer (today):
Hi Bill,
We are confident members can continue flying over 400. This was confirmed by the FAA and their legal team.I anticipate we will receive documentation on the protections of 336 in the coming weeks. It may not appear on the website, but instead may be a written notice or letter direct from the FAA. Right now our legal counsel and their legal counsel are reviewing the language, which will probably take some time.Chad BudreauAcademy of Model Aeronautics
We are confident members can continue flying over 400. This was confirmed by the FAA and their legal team.I anticipate we will receive documentation on the protections of 336 in the coming weeks. It may not appear on the website, but instead may be a written notice or letter direct from the FAA. Right now our legal counsel and their legal counsel are reviewing the language, which will probably take some time.Chad BudreauAcademy of Model Aeronautics
#85
Using your own childish analogy, how safe is your SSN, credit card number, your driver's license, or your bank account number? Ever write a check? Ever eat out and hand your credit card to a waiter/waitress? How about a gas attendant? Ever put your SSN or driver's license number on a job application? Ever visit the doctor? Ever ordering anything over the phone or on the web? Do you get mail delivered to your residence?
#86
A data breach is a data breach. Ever file a tax return? Have a SSN? A passport? Do yo own a home? Have a computer at home connected to the Internet? How about a cell or tablet connected to the Internet? Ever use public WiFi? Your data is probably safer with the Chinese, North Koreans, Russians, and Iranians than it is with some of the domestic hackers or 12 year olds who a read a phone book.
#87
A data breach is a data breach. Ever file a tax return? Have a SSN? A passport? Do yo own a home? Have a computer at home connected to the Internet? How about a cell or tablet connected to the Internet? Ever use public WiFi? Your data is probably safer with the Chinese, North Koreans, Russians, and Iranians than it is with some of the domestic hackers or 12 year olds who a read a phone book.
#88
#89
#90
Of course they do. And you know the IRS is a lot more secure than the FAA because? How do you even know the FAA is actually storing your CC info. permanently?
#91
The issue is that anybody can access the database. With those only the police can access. With a mortgage, only banks, and other business can access. Property Tax depends on the local but generally that is restricted as well. With the FAA database, anybody can access at any time for free. Maybe not info for now, but I bet that information gets a lot deeper in the future. I will not register.
#92
The issue is that anybody can access the database. With those only the police can access. With a mortgage, only banks, and other business can access. Property Tax depends on the local but generally that is restricted as well. With the FAA database, anybody can access at any time for free. Maybe not info for now, but I bet that information gets a lot deeper in the future. I will not register.
http://www.cobbassessor.org/cobbga/s...spx?mode=owner
#96
#97
#99
I'm a club officer for our club here, we've been discussing this quite a bit....Here is my current take on it...
- AMA says that clubs are not required to require FAA registration from there members
- FAA has not said that community based organizations are required to police their own. The onus/responsibility is on the operator and only the operator.
- Local PD and DOT's do not have the authority to enforce the federal regulations put forward. The only thing they can do is contact the FAA and request the FAA investigate using the FAA's resources...and even then, according to the rules.. see #2, its the responsibility of the pilot, not the club according to current FAA rules.
- The FAA proposed regulations are not set in stone and won't be here for several years.
To jump and modify club by-laws to try and hit a moving target where it has clearly been stated that as of now the clubs have no need to do so seems a bit irresponsible to me. The ball is still in the air, we don't know where it is going to land, yet while it is in the air we are going to make our members jump through hoops that likely are going to change in the coming months. Bye bye members...
at some point a by-law update may be needed, but things are going to change, and until the dust settles I don't think it is prudent to go whacking away at the rules....
- AMA says that clubs are not required to require FAA registration from there members
- FAA has not said that community based organizations are required to police their own. The onus/responsibility is on the operator and only the operator.
- Local PD and DOT's do not have the authority to enforce the federal regulations put forward. The only thing they can do is contact the FAA and request the FAA investigate using the FAA's resources...and even then, according to the rules.. see #2, its the responsibility of the pilot, not the club according to current FAA rules.
- The FAA proposed regulations are not set in stone and won't be here for several years.
To jump and modify club by-laws to try and hit a moving target where it has clearly been stated that as of now the clubs have no need to do so seems a bit irresponsible to me. The ball is still in the air, we don't know where it is going to land, yet while it is in the air we are going to make our members jump through hoops that likely are going to change in the coming months. Bye bye members...
at some point a by-law update may be needed, but things are going to change, and until the dust settles I don't think it is prudent to go whacking away at the rules....
So it seems to me that modelers have a choice. Register and keep flying as you have been. Or, don't register and keep flying as you have been with the understanding that you may run into issues if you fly at other fields (in fun-flys/events for example) that require the FAA registration. I've seen one example of this where a multi-rotor racing league is requiring FAA registration to participate. So, you can "pay to play" or stay home. Either way, individuals have a choice.
Last edited by fly24-7; 02-04-2016 at 09:14 AM.
#100
Someone could just as easily do that with your license plate number or VIN was well.