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Should the AMA/Clubs continue to make donations to the Wounded Warrior Project?

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Old 03-30-2016, 11:03 AM
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porcia83
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Default Should the AMA/Clubs continue to make donations to the Wounded Warrior Project?

Since 2013 the AMA, via it's clubs, has maintained a relationship with the Wounded Warrior Project.

The WWP has been in the news the past few months given the controversy surrounding their leadership, their salaries, and their expenses over the past year or so. The scrutiny culminated in the president being removed from office recently. The issue seemed to die down, but just this week more questioned were raised.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charges-...rrior-project/

As with any story in the media, there are two sides, and then the truth.

Overhead costs seemed to be the sticking point, with figures being reported in the 40-50%, although nothing substantive to prove more than 35% or so was noted. Those figures are high for charities, however it was also correctly noted that the past president significantly increased the amount of donations to the WWP, more than doubling them, so a fair argument could be made that it takes money to make money.

Total donations (via Aviation Day donations) since 2013 are just under $270,000, last year just over $92,000 was raised via Model Aviation Day. Clubs of course are not required to make any donations to the WWP, and can chose to either not raise any money, or use money they have raised as they see fit.

I've been to a few club meetings lately where the issue was brought up, just wondered if it's something that's been discussed elsewhere.
Old 04-07-2016, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Since 2013 the AMA, via it's clubs, has maintained a relationship with the Wounded Warrior Project.

The WWP has been in the news the past few months given the controversy surrounding their leadership, their salaries, and their expenses over the past year or so. The scrutiny culminated in the president being removed from office recently. The issue seemed to die down, but just this week more questioned were raised.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charges-...rrior-project/

As with any story in the media, there are two sides, and then the truth.

Overhead costs seemed to be the sticking point, with figures being reported in the 40-50%, although nothing substantive to prove more than 35% or so was noted. Those figures are high for charities, however it was also correctly noted that the past president significantly increased the amount of donations to the WWP, more than doubling them, so a fair argument could be made that it takes money to make money.

Total donations (via Aviation Day donations) since 2013 are just under $270,000, last year just over $92,000 was raised via Model Aviation Day. Clubs of course are not required to make any donations to the WWP, and can chose to either not raise any money, or use money they have raised as they see fit.

I've been to a few club meetings lately where the issue was brought up, just wondered if it's something that's been discussed elsewhere.
Just a couple of weeks ago my best friend told me a story about his Co-Pilot. It seems that his child was born ill and would need constant attention for the rest of his life. This fellow became a Single Parent, only because his wife did not want to deal with the situation.

Thru, the years this fellow had to purchase equipment as in wheel chairs, lifts, etc., just to move his son around.

With his son's 12 th birthday approaching he decided to purchase a new lift for his son, which totaled out to the sum of $12,000.00 and he paid for it in full. But, before his son reached 12, the child died. Now this father was stuck with a paid for $12,000.00 lift. Knowing that he had no more use for it, he thought what can I do with it ? He thought about it for a while and decided to call " Wounded Warrior Project " in his area, of which I believe was the Jacksonville, FL area. He was sure that Wounded Warrior's could use the lift for our soldiers and offered it to them FREE as in absolutely no charges.

Do you know want to know how the Wounded Warrior Project replied to his offering. Well here it is from the mouth of the Wounded Warrior Project representative. QUOTE: WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT ONLY ACCEPTS MONETARY / CASH DONATIONS AND NO WE DO NOT WANT THE LIFT !

This fellow was stunned ! Could not believe the reply that he received ! He eventually called some local hospitals and they put him in touch with some rehab institutions and he offered one the lift, whom were overwhelmed and grateful to receive such a generous donation.

I can only say, that after I heard this story and now that you have read it, that all you folks out there will have to decide on your own and make up your own minds as for donations to Wounded Warriors Project.

Let me PERSONALLY say now that I am a VET ! I know many Vet's and have seen the horrors that wars have brought to our soldiers. I believe that as Wounded Soldiers they all deserve our respect and support. BUT !! Until the Wounded Warrior Project cleans up their act and proves that they have to the general public , that no more monies should be given to them.

Like I said, this is how this VET " Personally " feels and thinks.

Last edited by Granpooba; 04-07-2016 at 10:40 AM.
Old 04-07-2016, 05:46 AM
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I am not a fan of these organizations . I would rather a club find someone in need in their community and use the money raised to make sure they get assistance. Not just give them the money but if it's bills that need to be paid then pay the bills for them, if they need medical supplies then make arrangements to get them, etc...,etc...
Old 04-07-2016, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpooba
...........I believe that as Wounded Soldiers they all deserve our respect and support. BUT !! Until the Wounded Warrior Project cleans up their act and proves that they have to the general public , that no more monies should be given to them........

Very well stated Granpooba .

And , my condolences to your best friend's co-pilot on the loss of his Son .
Old 04-07-2016, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda
I am not a fan of these organizations . I would rather a club find someone in need in their community and use the money raised to make sure they get assistance. Not just give them the money but if it's bills that need to be paid then pay the bills for them, if they need medical supplies then make arrangements to get them, etc...,etc...
I do want to believe that charities like this do start out with the best intentions , and then they get big , and then big money does what it always does , it attracts big crooks , and the padding of the pockets becomes paramount with the charity being the one that gets hurt .

And yes , there is one thing certain about the form of "grass roots" charity you mention , the certainty that 100% of the money does exactly what it's intended to do , help the needy rather than help some CEOs book their next island vacation ....
Old 04-07-2016, 08:36 AM
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My suspicion is that you will see a different primary recipient this year for National Model Aviation Day
Old 04-07-2016, 11:03 AM
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Simple answer is NO! There are better Veterans organizations out there to donate to.
Old 04-07-2016, 04:04 PM
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We are going to do something with our local American Legion this year. We do an air show event and had been collecting for the WWP. But I don't want the negativity to reflect on us because we are soliciting donations. Also, we will let the American Legion come to the event and solicit themselves. This frees up our members to do other things like crowd control and flight line safety. In the future if WWP cleans up their act, we can always donate again.
Old 04-07-2016, 05:12 PM
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Two years ago our club did an AMA Model Aviation Day/Wounded Warrior air show that took in over $1500.00 which we dutifully sent to AMA. Never heard a thank you, kiss my rump, good job from them. Last year we connected with the Central California AmVets Chapter which keeps all donations local. Also the local Marine Corps. Cadet Troop handled parking, Colors Presentation and crowd assistance which earned them a hefty donation and free lunches. Again we dispersed almost $1500.00.

With the recent exposures Wounded Warriors Project will never again be on our list along with a number of other questionable veterans assistance organizations. Many of our veteran club members, myself included, can relate stories similar to Granpooba's post so now we only consider local chapters or organizations that account for and keep donations for local use.

Lastly the AMA just sent out an email announcing their partnership again with Wounded Warriors. Not surprising as I learned from a reliable but shall remain an unnamed source those partnerships earn commissions on the donations.

Check for local organizations, they are your best bet as you can see and account for their activities.

Last edited by Dick T.; 04-07-2016 at 05:14 PM.
Old 04-07-2016, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick T.
Two years ago our club did an AMA Model Aviation Day/Wounded Warrior air show that took in over $1500.00 which we dutifully sent to AMA. Never heard a thank you, kiss my rump, good job from them. Last year we connected with the Central California AmVets Chapter which keeps all donations local. Also the local Marine Corps. Cadet Troop handled parking, Colors Presentation and crowd assistance which earned them a hefty donation and free lunches. Again we dispersed almost $1500.00.

With the recent exposures Wounded Warriors Project will never again be on our list along with a number of other questionable veterans assistance organizations. Many of our veteran club members, myself included, can relate stories similar to Granpooba's post so now we only consider local chapters or organizations that account for and keep donations for local use.

Lastly the AMA just sent out an email announcing their partnership again with Wounded Warriors. Not surprising as I learned from a reliable but shall remain an unnamed source those partnerships earn commissions on the donations.

Check for local organizations, they are your best bet as you can see and account for their activities.
In all fairness, that's seems like a pretty big bomb to toss out there without any way to verify that, other than to basically say " a little birdie told me". Not to say it's not possible, but still...how does this work exactly? Is it alleged that the AMA gets a kickback on the donated amount? I don't buy that for a minute. That's something the WW would have to account for in their filings, I've seen nothing to indicate that. It would be nice to see something more substantive than a rumor.

As for a response from the AMA and WW, the AMA did sent out a thank you letter to the clubs, at least those in my area. Looked sort of like the awards the kids get in school now, pre-filled info except the name of the club. They also included 50 or so stickers from Model Aviation Day.

As for a response from the WW...well, I certainly heard from them. And by heard from them I mean telemarketing calls and mail solicitations (over 10 so far) asking for more money. I sent our clubs check to them with my name/address on the envelope so that's where they got my info. This is where I think any money from the WW would come into play, which is the WW paying the AMA for marketing leads, ie our info. Similar to what they do with other affinity marketing plans, the most notable one being the tie ins with Nationwide Insurance. Annoying to some degree, but a simple button click on the delete button or a polite response to them asking to be removed from their list will do the trick.

Love the idea of keeping donations and help local though. It can only help with the relationship between clubs and the folks from the local areas.
I
Old 04-07-2016, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda
I am not a fan of these organizations . I would rather a club find someone in need in their community and use the money raised to make sure they get assistance. Not just give them the money but if it's bills that need to be paid then pay the bills for them, if they need medical supplies then make arrangements to get them, etc...,etc...
Those are great ideas as well, it's not just money that some of these organizations need, although they certainly appreciate that. Our club does a Toys for Tots collection as well as donations to the town's food bank. A club I visited a while back had the public bring canned goods and food items as an "entrance fee" for a fun fly and collected a ton of food for their local charities. It's shocking and saddening to see how many people rely on these charities for something as simple as food...and even more so when it's military families too. You can see an immediate need fulfilled working at the local level, for sure.
Old 04-07-2016, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TimJ
Simple answer is NO! There are better Veterans organizations out there to donate to.
There are certainly a lot out there, and many that have lower operating costs. One of the best solutions of course is to contact a local Vets Home/Hospital. We have two in our area that are probably always in need of something, and at some point I'd like to work something out with them to have some of the occupants come to local fun fly/giant scale events, especially the warbird ones. One club I belong to is right behind a senior living complex ( a high end one at that) and sometimes they come down, or have friends visit and come down and see the warbirds of all types. They gravitate to those and at least a few times a month we here "I used to fly that plane", or something to that effect.
Old 04-07-2016, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bruceal
We are going to do something with our local American Legion this year. We do an air show event and had been collecting for the WWP. But I don't want the negativity to reflect on us because we are soliciting donations. Also, we will let the American Legion come to the event and solicit themselves. This frees up our members to do other things like crowd control and flight line safety. In the future if WWP cleans up their act, we can always donate again.
Although I know anything is possible, it's hard to believe you and your folks could be looked down for your club activities and involvement with the public. You and your club do it right, and you have the foot traffic/location to really make an impact. Love the idea of the American Legion coming in....I'll owe you a royalty of some type when I try that idea locally. Ribs and beer at Babes?
Old 04-07-2016, 07:17 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by Granpooba
Just a couple of weeks ago my best friend told me a story about his Co-Pilot. It seems that his child was born ill and would need constant attention for the rest of his life. This fellow became a Single Parent, only because his wife did not want to deal with the situation.

Thru, the years this fellow had to purchase equipment as in wheel chairs, lifts, etc., just to move his son around.

With his son's 12 th birthday approaching he decided to purchase a new lift for his son, which totaled out to the sum of $12,000.00 and he paid for it in full. But, before his son reached 12, the child died. Now this father was stuck with a paid for $12,000.00 lift. Knowing that he had no more use for it, he thought what can I do with it ? He thought about it for a while and decided to call " Wounded Warrior Project " in his area, of which I believe was the Jacksonville, FL area. He was sure that Wounded Warrior's could use the lift for our soldiers and offered it to them FREE as in absolutely no charges.

Do you know want to know how the Wounded Warrior Project replied to his offering. Well here it is from the mouth of the Wounded Warrior Project representative. QUOTE: WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT ONLY ACCEPTS MONETARY / CASH DONATIONS AND NO WE DO NOT WANT THE LIFT !

This fellow was stunned ! Could not believe the reply that he received ! He eventually called some local hospitals and they put him in touch with some rehab institutions and he offered one the lift, whom were overwhelmed and grateful to receive such a generous donation.

I can only say, that after I heard this story and now that you have read it, that all you folks out there will have to decide on your own and make up your own minds as for donations to Wounded Warriors Project.

Let me PERSONALLY say now that I am a VET ! I know many Vet's and have seen the horrors that wars have brought to our soldiers. I believe that as Wounded Soldiers they all deserve our respect and support. BUT !! Until the Wounded Warrior Project cleans up their act and proves that they have to the general public , that no more monies should be given to them.

Like I said, this is how this VET " Personally " feels and thinks.
To me this is about preparation and messaging.

I can actually understand why they would not want to take possession of an actual item, even more so one of this size. They aren't geared for this, nor set up for this at a national level. After my grandmother died we were shocked to see how many organizations would not take her $5,000 motorized wheelchair. Most said the same thing, they didn't have a way to get it, were afraid of the liability issues etc etc. Couldn't sell it as most people who needed it could have it for next to nothing through insurance. We ended up donating it to Goodwill.

Now given the WW's size and scope of operation, I can't imagine it would be difficult to set up some type of system to deal with these types of generous offers such as yours. They don't know all the agencies out there at local levels with these types of needs? Why take a potential donation (either now or the future) and say no, we want cash only, rather than say in a more polished and appreciative way...We want to thank you for this however we are not able to pick this up, however we have sent your information on to XXX Company who will be in touch, or "we can't take this, however here are 3 agencies in your local area that you can contact, they might be able to use this.

Perhaps the organization, with their prior leadership, became to focused on growing the donations rather than looking at other ways they could be helpful. The new leadership team has their work cut out for themselves.

Thanks for your thoughts/comments, and your service as well.
Old 04-08-2016, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dick T.
Two years ago our club did an AMA Model Aviation Day/Wounded Warrior air show that took in over $1500.00 which we dutifully sent to AMA. Never heard a thank you, kiss my rump, good job from them. Last year we connected with the Central California AmVets Chapter which keeps all donations local. Also the local Marine Corps. Cadet Troop handled parking, Colors Presentation and crowd assistance which earned them a hefty donation and free lunches. Again we dispersed almost $1500.00.

With the recent exposures Wounded Warriors Project will never again be on our list along with a number of other questionable veterans assistance organizations. Many of our veteran club members, myself included, can relate stories similar to Granpooba's post so now we only consider local chapters or organizations that account for and keep donations for local use.

Lastly the AMA just sent out an email announcing their partnership again with Wounded Warriors. Not surprising as I learned from a reliable but shall remain an unnamed source those partnerships earn commissions on the donations.

Check for local organizations, they are your best bet as you can see and account for their activities.
I haven't seen any email announcing the NMAD partnership yet from the AMA.
Old 04-08-2016, 05:55 AM
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Babes anytime! As a matter of fact the owner of Babes does so much for local charities. I'm sure that he'll donate for our raffle. And don't forget that you're free to come and visit anytime. You did a great job with the candy drop and we would love to have you and some other fine people from your neck of the woods come back.
Old 04-08-2016, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dick T.
Two years ago our club did an AMA Model Aviation Day/Wounded Warrior air show that took in over $1500.00 which we dutifully sent to AMA. Never heard a thank you, kiss my rump, good job from them. Last year we connected with the Central California AmVets Chapter which keeps all donations local. Also the local Marine Corps. Cadet Troop handled parking, Colors Presentation and crowd assistance which earned them a hefty donation and free lunches. Again we dispersed almost $1500.00.

With the recent exposures Wounded Warriors Project will never again be on our list along with a number of other questionable veterans assistance organizations. Many of our veteran club members, myself included, can relate stories similar to Granpooba's post so now we only consider local chapters or organizations that account for and keep donations for local use.

Lastly the AMA just sent out an email announcing their partnership again with Wounded Warriors. Not surprising as I learned from a reliable but shall remain an unnamed source those partnerships earn commissions on the donations.

Check for local organizations, they are your best bet as you can see and account for their activities.
I can say with about 99.99 percent certainty that those two statements are incorrect.

The AMA does NOT in fact receive any kickback, commission, or any other money from WWP.

Also, other than the announcement sent out months ago, there's been no announcement recently about their partnerships, though I suspect strongly one will be forthcoming sooner rather than later.
Old 04-08-2016, 10:46 AM
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I'm retired ! Living on savings, Social Security, US Savings bonds, Stocks, IRA, Pension funds, etc ., and I am a VET !

But I am open to any kick backs or donations. Anybody want my address ????? LOL

Last edited by Granpooba; 04-08-2016 at 02:17 PM.
Old 04-17-2016, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
I haven't seen any email announcing the NMAD partnership yet from the AMA.
This link if from an April 5, 2016 AMA email.

http://nationalmodelaviationday.org/

Registration form for NMAD 2016 has Wounded Warrior as default checked as well as other references to WWP donations.

Although AMA is taking a low key approach to WWP this year it is still their preferred venue for the donations. As to comments disagreeing with the "commissions" aspect, an individual lack of first hand knowledge does not mean it does not exist. My source voluntarily works with local and national charitable organizations overseeing donations, fundraising and distribution. He relays interesting insight as to dubious methods some well known organizations use to raise money.

There are numerous online sources that monitor and report fund raising costs, overhead and real program end dollar usage. Of interest is the organizations that do not respond to requests for information.

Do your own research to know where your club's donations are going.

Last edited by Dick T.; 04-17-2016 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Corrected email date from April 6 to April 5, 2016.
Old 04-17-2016, 01:31 PM
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Ok, let me be clear.

The AMA is not getting a kickback or commission for monies donated to WWP. That's not 3rd hand information, hearsay, or rumor, it's what I know to be a fact.

As to the main charity for 2016, we'll see what happens when the announcement comes out.
Old 04-17-2016, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick T.
This link if from an April 5, 2016 AMA email.

http://nationalmodelaviationday.org/

Registration form for NMAD 2016 has Wounded Warrior as default checked as well as other references to WWP donations.

Although AMA is taking a low key approach to WWP this year it is still their preferred venue for the donations. As to comments disagreeing with the "commissions" aspect, an individual lack of first hand knowledge does not mean it does not exist. My source voluntarily works with local and national charitable organizations overseeing donations, fundraising and distribution. He relays interesting insight as to dubious methods some well known organizations use to raise money.

There are numerous online sources that monitor and report fund raising costs, overhead and real program end dollar usage. Of interest is the organizations that do not respond to requests for information.

Do your own research to know where your club's donations are going.
With all due respect, the above in blue still sounds like a borderline libelous, or at a minimum, unfair statement to make. If either you or your source can come up with the specific way that the AMA is getting kickback, they should lay it out in the open. If the allegation can't be proven, it should be withdrawn. If your source knows of something improper going on and doesn't report it, they are just as complicit as far as I'm concerned.

I agree on doing the research though, as much as possible. Any organization holding that info back should raise immediate red flags. The ones using "first responder" status to pull at the heartstrings are some of the most disgusting groups out there. They call at least 2-3 times a month and when pushed to answer their actual overhead/program fees, they won't. I know people have to earn a living, but how can honestly do that?

Last edited by porcia83; 04-27-2016 at 12:46 PM.
Old 04-17-2016, 06:53 PM
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Glad to know as I would be sadly disappointed to learn if they did.

The announcement is in the April 5, 2016 email/AMA News Today.

"Calling all AMA clubs! We want you to help AMA promote the great hobby that we all love by participating in National Model Aviation Day on August 13, 2016....."


Old 04-27-2016, 08:31 AM
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i no long feel comfertble donate $ to wwp

bad peopel take all $ and just have big ptry spend r donetion bad bad
Old 04-30-2016, 06:22 AM
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Motion made and passed at the 4-16-2016 EC Meeting while the minutes are not up yet the Motions are. I have always believed and let them know that the local clubs should decide who to donate to.

MOTION II: Moved by L. Tougas (X) and seconded by L. Harville (VIII) if AMA can’t coordinate with the Disabled American Veteran’s (DAV) charity by April 21, the decision for the National Model Aviation Day (NMAD) charity should be selected and administered locally by the clubs.
MOTION passed unanimously.

Mike
Old 04-30-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Motion made and passed at the 4-16-2016 EC Meeting while the minutes are not up yet the Motions are. I have always believed and let them know that the local clubs should decide who to donate to.

MOTION II: Moved by L. Tougas (X) and seconded by L. Harville (VIII) if AMA can’t coordinate with the Disabled American Veteran’s (DAV) charity by April 21, the decision for the National Model Aviation Day (NMAD) charity should be selected and administered locally by the clubs.
MOTION passed unanimously.

Mike
AMA has never mandated or required that a club donate to the WW, the clubs have always been able to donate to any group.


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