init4fun

Well , considering he's now resorted to outright Lying , saying I was warned in a thread I wasn't , I guess that puts into perfect perspective his purpose for being here , he's here to bully the forum for kicks , just as he HAS admitted to doing in the past . I know he is under some delusion that as long as he's trolling pro AMA he won't be censured , but Ken himself has already said threads both pro AND anti AMA will be allowed , and what crispy don't know is that this is NOT a anti AMA thread , this is an open discussion of how our expense reporting compares to other organizations . Is that good ? is it bad ? who knows till it's looked into whether we provide adequate reporting to the members or not . Now , if we in the AMA forum can't have an open minded discussion of AMA finances without having to endure the never ending trolling then I DO plan to ask IB management why it is that a reasonable discussion can't be entertained on one of it's boards without each thread being derailed by a serial troll .....

init4fun

I have asked Ken to read your posts to this thread and to see if they are trolling or not . Sure seems that Myself and Combatpigg think your trolling here , and we'll see what Ken has to say .

Like I said , Taunting folks for the sake of stirring up enough crap to get a thread closed is over .

init4fun

Very good point Hydro , at under $10 it really would become daunting to list every penny , nickle and dime . This is exactly the kinds of input I'm looking for in this thread .

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

So you approve of posts # 2, 5, 10, and 22 being consistent with and contributing to the subject at hand?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

No taunting anyone, just asked you a simple direct question, which you have yet to answer.

GSXR1000

My Feedback: (7)

I want a monthly/yearly financial breakdown in excel format that is so detailed; that I would need to hire Ernst & Young or Pricewaterhouse Cooper to go over it..... J/K

Really anything like itemized 1099 K sort of statement for different expenditures and income would be fine...

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

What hasn't been mentioned yet is the work effort and cost associated with the reporting being requested. I'm sure you could get PWC, EY, etc. to inventory every paper clip, staple, and post it sheet on a hourly, daily, weekly, monthly or annual basis, but at what cost?

cj_rumley

Some folks need to peruse a source such as this website for info crispy is using to taunt them.

http://www.muridae.com/publicaccess/...described.html

Hydro Junkie

Why go that far, Chris? An accounting ledger will give you all the info needed, just use a four column to separate the various uses and you're good to go

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It's not a taunt, as anyone who clicks on that link or others will see it's an actual requirement. It also dispels the myth that one has to be a member of a club to get that information, so in fact it is someone's business if they chose to make it so. Everyone is entitled to the information (subject to limits) as the entity has sought a tax exempt status, and is required to abide by the regs.

The more transparency the better of course, but as noted that activity might actually come with an associated cost, and then that might get criticized as well. Also, as I've mentioned before, not every bit of information gathered is subject to disclosure, it just doesn't work that way for any entity like this.

Another issue, absent in this initial request/suggest/complaint is what has actually been done to date to get this information. Was it ever requested, formally I mean, not on an RC website. Where were the requests made, by whom and to whom. Did anyone ever ask their District VP for this information...I didn't see that indicated anywhere. If not, why not?

Finally, other than asking for the info, and possibly setting up a new line of complaints about disclosure etc, what does anyone seek to do with the information once they get it? Disagree with it, offer suggestions as to how it could be better spent, etc etc? It's an honest question because so far, I haven't seen a single suggestion on what to do once the information is gathered. Will follow up action be meaningful, and INVOLVED....or is the information being requested to pick over it and continue to find more "wrong" within the AMA?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

No website required as this is common knowledge. Not taunting, educating. For verification though, no need for third party sites, always best to go directly to the source. Perhaps some will reevaluate their answers and accusations once learning has completed. Just a just a thought....


[QUOTE=init4fun;12216958]Nice try , but in that thread , I WASN'T WARNED FOR A THING !

If you remember , >>> I

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

I was joking. It's impractical to track such trivial items.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

AMA members like Hoss have kept track of the financial reporting over the years and he would be able to say what has been customary.
Knowing what other 501 cees do is irrelevant.

Silent-AV8R

If you are really curious you can find the IRS Form 990 on the Net. It has lots of numbers in it.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I don't really think some people want the information, they just want to complain that it's not spoon-fed and easily accessible...although it is.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Actually it is relevant in terms of what the entities are required to, and in fact report. As for Hoss....seems to be he would have chimed in long ago.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Knowing what other comparable 501(c)(3) organizations do is most relevant. If you find one that offers the level of detail you're looking for have a valid example you could take to the AMA and request. Until then....

init4fun

But that's just it CJ, since Mike's club is not the topic of conversation (and even if it were) , why should Chris be allowed to taunt anybody ? If a non profit is required to make public their 990 well great ! that's a good source of information for my reading of the AMA's finances , since after all that's the topic here , the AMA's finances , and how much is too much or just right to be released . Now if he wants to go start a thread about local clubs who do or don't follow the law WRT 990 disclosure he's more than free to do that , rather than taunt the people here about it .

So I'm off to read a 990 .....

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Can you furnish some examples where you have done this and had positive results...?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Perhaps you can have the admins remove his club related post(s) then?

While you're at it, what are your thoughts on posts #2, 5, 10, and 22? I asked earlier, but didn't see your response.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

I'd be happy too, but it appears only my off topic posts are being reported to the moderators. Thus, I cannot enjoy the same (or any) off-topic latitude others embellish.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Perhaps you can alert him to this thread and see if he's able to contribute? I don't recall seeing a post from him in quite some time.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Your contention is that we should base our expectations for what the AMA should report to it's members not on what they have customarily done in years past, but on what other 501 organizations report.
If the AMA has traditionally disclosed MORE than the bare legal minimum to it's members, then what other 501's choose to do is meaningless.
If the AMA has traditionally disclosed only what they are required to by law, then what the other 501s do is meaningless in this case as well.
Either way, what the other 501s do is irrelevant.

cj_rumley

Init, I don't like what I perceive as crispy's attempts to create diversions from thread topics, as usually seems to be his purpose. That's why I rarely respond to him. IMHO, too many respectable folks here give him what he wants,and when he gets it he comes right back for more, repeating the cycle for as long as he can keep somebody on the hook and so further the disruption, burying the discussion in noise.
It isn't hard to ignore him......try it.
Oh yeah, in keeping with the desire to keep posts topical, do read a 990 and let us know if it answered any of your questions.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

No. My take from reading the on-topic posts in this thread is that folks are looking for more detailed reporting than the AMA is currently providing. Thus, I suggested that a few examples from other comparable organizations providing the level of detail that folks are looking for that the AMA is not presently providing today my bolster support for their cause to take to the AMA. Thus, what other 501s do could beneficial to those looking for more detailed reporting. However, a comparable organization with more detailed reporting hasn't been identified yet. I think some are looking though.