porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Earlier in the thread I posted a bunch of links to threads going back about 10 years. Those were just dealing with the "financial" to some degree, and some of them had discussions about the MA magazine. There were other threads about that too, but I didn't link to them.

Would it be surprising to anyone that the idea of a magazine was soundly rejected by a group of folks, albeit a small one. No needs for one they said, already done by others and done well. What does the AMA know about publishing a magazine? It will lose money, and more of our dues will be down the drain. The vitriol went into overtime when the mag didn't post profits while it got up and running. See, they told ya so, it was a loser idea. Oh, ironically there were complaints about how many ads and articles they started seeing about helis too...lol.

Fast forward to the present day and now we have a magazine that is operating as a profit center, generating ad revenue, you know...something most organizations and members would consider a positive, and yet that fact becomes fodder to further a conversation about unsupported allegations of illegal acts. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

As noted earlier, I took a look through the past decade plus AMA threads, a few things could certainly be called out as "trends".

Some folks have deep seeded beliefs, and hold true to them despite any evidence to the contrary. Some of the stuff is over the top Alex Jones level material, some of it just the garden variety gripes.

Another was all the money all of the folks on the EC made, crazy high salaries (for those volunteer positions). Bribes and kickbacks is a new one, can't see I saw that one pop up. As with most of the rumors, they were made without any basis in fact or reality.

Another trend, anything even remotely positive was very rarely noted. Forget even positive come to think of it. The more things change, the more they stay the same....fast forward to now.

The 990 of course won't have all the information everyone suddenly seems to want, which in and of itself is fodder for more rumors. The EC meeting notes from April have already been released, I guess most folks missed them while searching the 990s.

Much like the consternation and damnation the AMA got for rolling out the mag, it was once again foisted on them for partnering with Best Buy to educate consumers, and possibly you know, gain members (those folks some said would NEVER join the AMA. Guess 692 did after all:

"Best Buy Program: revenue generated through end of February was $62,092; the program has become profitable for us although not what we had hoped. Still working with them to make improvements.."

Based on the earlier comments about ad revenue, I guess the Best Buy program being "profitable" is a bad thing?

Some more financial news, for some reason not mentioned yet:

The audit by Brady Ware was moved to the second quarter; this saves about 4k in audit fees.

AMA’s bank for day-to-day operations: Sessions reported the current bank (JP Morgan Chase) requested AMA use some equipment for check cashing that does not work well and would increase our labor costs in the process. The comptroller and Sessions discussed this and explored other options. After considerable discussion between K. Sessions and V. Barkdull, AMA will move the banking relationship to a local institution, Mutual Bank. Sessions is confident AMA will save approximately 10k/year using Mutual Bank for day-to-day operations vs. JP Morgan Chase.

So this org, with an annual budget of 11 million makes a decision to change the bank used so they can save $10,000. I'll wait to see if there's an allegation of a bribe or kickback from Mutual Bank.

And finally....this:

New Open/Adult memberships up 4,478, renewals were down 2,102. Overall Open/Adult memberships up 2.7% to 70,678 year to date. Senior, Park Pilot, and Youth memberships were all up. Memberships are up 10,895 to 178,863 for a growth of almost 6.5% over this time last year.

So renewals are down, not a terribly big shocker, and probably not that much more than normal. With 180k in membership, and given the increasing age in membership, to be expected. So NEW members are 4478, and only 2102 didn't renew.

I don't need to see a financial form to know that 2376 NEW members hardly indicates the huge drop in membership predicted, nor the start of the end of the AMA, or the hobby as we know it. But I know it's early.....

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I appreciate the support you show me. I am very vocal of where I stand, and be assured that while I do support the AMA I also think that they should be held accountable when they screw up. There are members here that think the AMA can do no wrong, and that is definitely not the case. The AMA needs to learn from it's mistakes and move forward after making them. And I will the first one to stand out and tell them that they screw up.

Ken

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Sorry Ken, I've yet to see any members here that post that the AMA can do no wrong, nor is it clear how their thoughts on the AMA could be completely construed based on postings. It's that kind of generalization that sets up some of the divisive positions that folks take here, much like others labeling folks "haters" if they chronically complain about the AMA. It creates an all or nothing position, ie one is either for or against. The AMA threads are overwhelmingly negative, it's been that way as far back as posting history shows, so it's understandable that finding a more balanced or alternate view can be more difficult to note. I've certainly viewed lots of responses to posts that debunk and disprove the rumors and allegations made, so I guess that can be noted as a positive position on the AMA. That's not a knock on the site, or the mods, that just appears to be what it is based on the threads and comments noted, and people's feelings and opinions on the AMA. The issues of the past 3-4 years have certainly increased the complaints, noticeably regarding the MR issue.

I'll say that it's certainly easier to find posts from folks who have spent upwards of 8 plus years ranting and railing on the AMA, criticizing their absolute every move. And now we even see some insinuating illegal activity on their part, and the room goes silent on that. Come to think of it, I believe another member "Hoss" made a similar allegation years ago, and the response was almost identical. That's disappointing, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Any member that does have concerns should voice their opinion and concern, and many posts have been written on how to do that in the most constructive way possible...ie contact local AVPs, VP, and EC members, as well as using the AMA blogs. Actually getting involved in the AMA is also more likely to bring about some change rather than posting on the web that the AMA is taking bribes. Becoming a Leader Member (which allows one to vote on certain issues), becoming a regional AVP, then VP, and then higher office.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

You weren't here when Red Schoefeld was a member?? Well, before I had to finally ban him at least. He was one of those people that thought the AMA could absolutely could do no wrong.

Ken

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Yup, I sure was here when he was a member. I remember seeing a note from a mod saying he had voluntarily closed his account, but it does show "Banned" under is name. But he's been gone for years now if I'm not mistaken, so he isn't here commenting that the AMA can do no wrong.

I recall many of his discussions and comments, he brought a lot to the table, can't say I agreed with everything he said though. His message and advocacy was often times drowned out and attacked/obscured by some of the same folks that disagree with the AMA now. Like I said, the more things change, the more they say the same. People hold their beliefs close at heart.

I don't recall him every accusing people of taking bribes and kickbacks though.

Anyway, Happy Memorial Day. Hope the weather clears and some flying can get done.

franklin_m

Ever stop to wonder why they're so overwhelmingly negative? Could there be even a grain of truth in the issues raised? Could it reflect an underlying morale issue? Or perhaps a simmering dissatisfaction with the leadership? I'm interested in your sage thoughts.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

It could be that there's a small but loud vocal minority that like to do nothing better than get on here and gripe rather than step up and try to be part of the solution?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Ken is right, the AMA isn't perfect.

That said, I've been in EC meetings and I've hung out with these guys at events and had lunch and talked airplanes with them. I don't hear a lot of plotting to fleece the members of money or sell out modelers. I hear a lot of talk of guys that have been immersed in the hobby since they were kids and LOVE IT, really and truly love it and at the heart of it, want to do whats best for the hobby and the members.

Just like cops, firemen, air traffic controllers or whatever, these guys are human and we try to do our best with the information at hand.

Any personal agendas are diluted by the fact that any one person only has one vote on issues.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Here's my sagely thought on the issue. People love to whine and complain and criticize, and second guess too, all from a distance of course. People love to be in similar groups too, you know, birds of a feather. A conspiracy issue gets a good conversation going as well. Throw in some allegations of illegal activities and boom, we're off to the races. Worked out well for the last guy who predicated his candidacy on all of the above didn't it? Haven't heard much after that drubbing in the polls, but again...at least he tried.

As you know, anyone in a leadership role is going to get castigated no matter what they do. The complaint threads were there well before any of the recent MR issues, and they would still be here regardless. It's human nature to complain. They are going to be here well after we're both gone, because...well., we know why right?

But ya, take some time to go back and look at them, starting on page 145 I believe. Lot's and lot's of complaints, virtually NO action. No personal responsibility, no personal involvement, just complaints on a website. If the purpose of the threads are to vent, perfect. If they were to be used to affect change in either direction, well, that's definitely proven to be a complete failure. Lot's of complaints, lots of suggestions about what to do after the fact, lots of discussion about accountability...but virtually no action. One only has to look at the last slate of candidates to see who put their hand up...and even worse, the abysmal voting turn out. Does anyone wonder why the situation they feel is horrible hasn't changed?

And, the more things change, the more they stay the same. The discussion in most of these threads still don't show any specific suggestions about how to make things better, rather the focus is how bad things are. As close as it gets is that the AMA needs to communicate better. Great, fair enough, and yet a non specific rather generic complaint that can be made against any organization. (Gee, come to think of it I believe I was the one who said they could do a better job on communications, as well as their website...but let's move on).

Accountability is a great concept, it seems to be the buzzword now. Great...how is it applied? Specifically. Is the discussion about how to hold those in authority accountable now, for alleged malfeasance in the past, or what? Is it about how we hold them accountable for future decisions? Did I miss all the measures that have been suggested yet?

franklin_m

I obviously have nothing better to do than gripe. I guess paying my membership fee does not entitle me to ask questions about how my money is used, or question how decisions are made, or how my membership dues are spent. I guess I should just consider myself lucky that despite my status as one of the unwashed masses, there are far better individuals than me making better decisions for me than I could make for myself.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

I was being light hearted, sorry if you may have not taken it that way

hence the smiley face and the follow up post

franklin_m

Communicating better - Could start with more transparency into the number of memberships by category, the yearly trend in each category going back as far as they have data, or even from this point forward. Seems specific, measurable, appropriate, reasonable, and timely. Not only does it directly affect revenue, but it also is a leading indicator of the future health of the organization.

Communicating better - How about posting the MR survey results AMA promised they would post two years ago? Data might provide some insight into the vote to pursue MRs. Given that the board spit evenly on the decision, with the prez casting the tie breaking vote, would be useful for members to know if the general membership was strongly in favor, mildly in favor, neutral, mildly not in favor, or strongly not in favor of the direction leadership took. If there's miss-alignment, then accountability might come with the next election.

Communicating better - How about cleaning up the website, update the information with something more current (i.e. flying site success stories PDF hasn't been updated in two years), fixing broken links, etc.? A deliverable of any communication plan these days is a website, and call me crazy, but I think most people expect them to be current.

There's three quick examples.

franklin_m

As a "RCU Community Moderator" and "AMA Leader Member-Contest Director" and as I've recently learned also a member of the AMA leadership, I assume any post is official and thus you're always speaking for AMA and/or RCU.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Wow......how did you miss that Frankin? Wow.

3. I only speak for myself, not the EC, President, or Staff at HQ. If there's a question I know the answer to I'll be happy to answer it. If I don't know I'll try my best to find out or refer you to the proper person.

franklin_m

Because it wasn't in the post that followed my first one in this thread.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

And yet the notice about BH being involved in the AMA was...and that you read, well, at least part of it.

Completely transparent and disingenuous. Even more so since you've yet to retract the question now that the answer had been brought to your attention. Dishonorable and despicable way to go about things.

franklin_m

The signature is there always, and there's but a single post that has the disclaimer. So how are we to know is that a disclaimer for that post alone, that page, one, two, or three additional posts, or all posts on RCU?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Won't even quote that in a response it's in such poor taste.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

There might be some good suggestions buried in there, but is it heard by anyone other than the few folks who line up in lock step opposition to the AMA? I doubt it. There might have even been a time where good feedback could have been received, but who can hear anything against the onslaught of doom and gloom. Again, I look back to the lesson that Hossfly set, and the outcome of that. Chronic and constant AMA bashing with second guessing, rumor mongering, and non stop negativity. Always someone else to blame, always something the AMA was plotting against him. Then, the elections came and he got trounced. I guess his message was received loud and clear.

Maybe someone can take something from the message and move with it.

init4fun

"Lock step opposition to the AMA"..........Offset by........."Drinking the AMA Kool Aide"

"Onslaught of doom and gloom" ............Offset by.........."AMA Cheerleader"

"Chronic and constant AMA bashing with second guessing , rumor mongering , and non stop negativity" ........ Offset by ......... IS there really any counter to such inflammatory rhetoric ?

Is it really a discussion your looking to have here , or a contest of how far you can belittle someone's position without stepping over the line of personal attack ? Is this really the way reasonable adults are supposed to hold a conversation ?

After Ken blasted the board and I went away for the weekend , I was wondering what I'd find when I got back . Pretty much business as usual here I guess . You know , I always thought this was supposed to be a "discussion forum" . I never realized it's actually a "save the AMA's world with the best and most important posts" forum and that idle discussion for discussion's sake is somehow a bad thing . So every post has to be about how to make the AMA the next new hot IPO and there is now , and has never been , a single flaw in anything the AMA has ever done . Got it .

I did enough thinking while I was off visiting family , of how much time I waste here on folks who are here to do noting but belittle folks they don't agree with , that I intend to spend more of my free time actually accomplishing something in my workshop this week rather than read and respond to posts intended to provoke negative responses . I can see no good in the outcome of this discussion in it's present form and choose not to participate in something I know is going down in flames .

Good Luck , and Good Bye .......

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

LoL...it's always inflammatory rhetoric when it doesn't fit the chosen narrative. Funny, I didn't see any finger wagging about inflammatory rhetoric when Combat starting slinging around accusations of bribes and kickbacks, in fact I saw one person jump on that bandwagon and make a comment about ad revenues. Har Har, it was a great joke I guess, funny! Where is the indignation with Franklin's comments on BH's posting going forward? Are you in agreement with them, or just don't want to disagree with those folks in public? The whole glass house thing comes to mind here.

I would have thought the attempts at lecturing others would have stopped after last week. Nobody here gets to claim the high ground as the "conscience" of the thread, even the thread starter (well, I guess Ken does as the admin ) We are having a conversation here, before the attempt to derail it and make the poster the point of discussion, rather than the content of the message. I see the admin and a mod here in partaking in the conversation all weekend, and I don't see any comments from them about the content being objectionable. Ken noted previously, If someone can't handle the discussion or doesn't like the content, the option is place folks on ignore, or just don't comment, or just leave, simple as that. I've challenged others comments and supported my position with documentation, and evidence readily available to all. I welcome any discussion points that are opposite mine, Franklin and I have been going over pros and cons for almost two years now, his points are positions are open to debate and discussion just as mine are. I don't think either of us feel attacked by the other, in fact we've had pleasant discussions via PM as well.

To bad you're leaving the thread, you bring valid points to the discussion as well, and I'd like to hear your opinion on the bribe/kickback accusation made by CP.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Init4fun and Franklin......Is it already time to renew our vows...[LOL]....???

Maybe this time a small wager could be held in escrow......

franklin_m

The man asked for actionable suggestions. I provided three. Not one was addressed.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Really? Go back and look at post 120. Sure looks like a addressed them all, even said their might be some good ones in there and someone might run with them. But again, even the suggestions are wrapped up in criticisms, which is fine I guess....but are these really actionable. In other words...what are you going to do about them, other than post them here. That's my feeling on "action", and "accountability". Does a post here qualify as both of those, or is it just more words?

Did you want a breakdown/analysis of each comment before it triggers the "sufficiently responded to" flag?