TimJ

Our battles are not over!

Amazon is still pursuing drone delivery and has plans to start in the UK.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36887325 Follow the link to read more about it.

[h=1]New trials for delivering goods by drones[/h] By Richard Westcott Transport correspondent, BBC News

The government's getting together with the retail giant Amazon to start testing flying drones that can deliver parcels to your door.

Amazon's paying for the programme, which will look at the best way to allow hundreds of robotic aircraft to buzz around Britain's skies safely.
The company claims it'll eventually mean small parcels will arrive at your house within 30 minutes of ordering them online.
Ministers say they want to pave the way for all businesses to start using the technology in future, but they will still have to convince the public that having automated drones flying around is both safe and won't invade people's privacy.
[h=2]Three big problems[/h]The trials will look at cracking three big problems:

• How can you operate drones safely beyond "line of sight"? The current rules say a pilot has to be able to see the aircraft at all times
• How can you build a drone that won't bump into things? Much like autonomous cars it would need sensors to help it avoid objects
• How can you build a system where one pilot is responsible for many drones?

Sport_Pilot

Ford had it right. Quality is Job 1. However quality includes safety as it is not a quality product if not safe. Quality in other areas would in fact improve safety, so they work hand in hand.

Sport_Pilot

Not sure about the UK but the biggest problem in the US will probably be birdshot.

H5487

I see Amazon's quest as being more gimmicky than feasible; at least with today's technology and that in the foreseeable future. How can you send 300 parcels that vary between 1oz and 70lbs to 300 customers more cheaply than one brown truck and a driver?

Harvey

TimJ

It's not gimmicky. Amazon is serious in this pursuit. They plan to deliver up to 55lb packages with on type of craft.

Intel invested 60 million in Yuneec, a full size electric aircraft manufacture and Drone manufacture. With that investment money Yuneec have developed collision avoidance technology. Who know what else Yuneec has up their developers sleeves for the coming years.

I wouldn't discredit the amazon deal just yet. They are investing time and money into the effort. It's no longer a marketing scheme.

Sport_Pilot

People think that battery power is free or at least cheap. Not free and not as cheap as you may think. Especially when it is time to replace the batteries.

Sport_Pilot

It most certainly is. And will be till implemented.

Hydro Junkie

Harvey, I've replied in blue in your post.

TimJ

100 percent not. Amazon has invested time and money in the project. Their Prime Air program I think will start in the UK first. But there are still legal hoops to jump through.

H5487

I think solving the legal hoops will be the easy part. The practical barriers will be another matter. Things like avoiding other air traffic (both big and small), avoiding powerlines, avoiding sensitive areas, not hitting anybody, maneuvering close to the ground to deliver a parcel to a recipient's point of delivery (which may be anything from the front door of a house to inside the lobby of a high rise).

TimJ, with all due respect, it's a marketing gimmick, regardless of the amount of time and money that Amazon is investing. The proof is that (1) it's something new and exciting, (2) it was announced in a news release that was aimed to excite existing customers and attract new ones, (3) Amazon is hoping to get a jump on its competitors, and (4) it was announced LONG before any of the legal and practical barriers have been solved.

Harvey

Sport_Pilot

Come to think it will be a marketing tool even after it is implemented. Just as the brown vans are marketing tools for UPS as well as practical delivery vehicles. But that won't make drones a reliable deliver system. Just too many shotguns out there.

Sport_Pilot

Actually unless Amazon is bribing officials the legal part is the hard part. Not likely to bribe all of the FEDS, and State, and local officials. Too many people will be complaining about these large low flying vehicles. Feds presently are fighting Amazon over their 200 foot rule. I doubt they will make them quite enough to satisfy many people. A 1/4 ton drone will make too much noise for many.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It's marketing now, but I have no doubt they will try to implement something along these lines. They are looking to satisfy our need for instant gratification and shrinking delivery times from days to a day...and in some instances hours. they are partnering with Uber/Lyft to get that ball rolling. I doubt they will be able to saturate the market with drone deliveries as they are presenting, but i have no doubt they will move forward it. They just built a second HUGE warehouse in CT (not a big state) and my understanding is two more are coming as well. Just so we can get our books and toilet paper sooner!

H5487

I agree but with the following clarification...

Change:
They are looking to satisfy our need for instant gratification...

To:
They are looking to cash in on our inability to wait for something...

Harvey

PS... Please don't mention to Franklin that I agreed with you on something. He out-ranks me!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

No insult taken, I actually don't mind being disagreed with and I actually like the way you put the different positions up there. Evidence that we can have a discussion and disagree without losing it. LoL. My only comment albeit late, is that my comment needs to be taken at face value, and only that. It's not pro/con safety, it's merely a statement that confirms a limitation to what man can do. In no way does it promote acceptance of failure, or complacency. We are as far as we are as a human race because of learning from our mistakes, adapting, and marching forward.
No insult taken, I actually appre

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It will be our dirty filthy little secret, I swear!

( and yes, I plead guilty to being impatient as well. I ordered two new 6 cells packs for one of my planes yesterday and I've already checked tracking twice).

rcmiket

With enough money behind it any hurdle or legal hoop can be overcome.

Mike

Sport_Pilot

They could pour billions into this and they will still have an issue with public acceptance, and birdshot.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Apologize for not responding sooner, not sure how I missed this one. So, perhaps the reason you can't or won't accept a factual comment is because you're too emotionally involved. That's not a slight on you, others have responded the same way, and it's not a slight on them either. They are looking at it through a different lens. Trying to take a factual statement and argue emotion, and wrap in a bunch of other non related stuff to support their emotional position. And I'm not disagreeing necessarily with their premise (more can be done, learn from past mistakes etc etc). The fact that they say more can be done by learning from our past mistakes is to me another way of saying, we can only do so much.

You can get emotional and call my statement tired and utterly utterly weak, yet you fail to show a perfect solution to the problem, just as Franklin has. Other than not flying, there is no solution. There is only so much that can be done. Your story about lost family members is a touching one, and obviously things have changed safety wise since the 70's. Airbags, crumple zones, lighter and stronger components etc. We have learned form past mistakes and/or design deficiencies.

By your own logic I guess we've solved the problems with auto collisions and fatalities? I think the families of the million plus people who die in car accidents each year (about 3200 per day) would disagree. I won't call your logic tired or utterly weak, I'll just say it appears to be faulty.

It looks like there's only so much the auto industry can do to prevent fatal and injury sustaining accidents. Short of not driving, there is no perfect solution.

When you or Franklin provide a 100% foolproof plan to ensure a 100% safety record, post it here or sent it to the AMA.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

The birdshot issue is a read herring, it's just not going to be a real factor.

Hate to be cynical, but the public is going to be absolutely a o/k with drone delivery if they get their stuff cheaper, and faster! In fact, Amazon has already done the hard work. No, not lobbying and building infrastructure and paying for the drones. No, they have already done massive amount of intelligence gathering via their customers. They've become the worlds best at predictive modeling for consumers wants, needs, and buying practices. There is nobody even close to them (Walmart is second best, but can't peel the onion back as far as Amazon can).

They aren't going into this on a lark, or just for marketing PR to say oh look at us and how innovative we are. They are doing it because their customers are asking for it.

H5487

I'm not so sure about that because I don't think the customers were asking for drone delivery until Amazon put the idea into their heads. I still think it's more gimmicky (or call it futuristic) than practical at this point due to the legal and practical issues that must be overcome first. As an example, self-driving cars are just now becoming a possibility but they're still a long ways off before they'll be reliable enough to be turned loose on the streets. And cars only operate in two dimensions. Adding a third (altitude) and the complication factor is increased by a whole lot more than just 50%.

I will admit that drone delivery may eventually become a reality but will it be easier and cheaper than a big brown truck and driver? Probably not for many years. In the meantime, Amazon has excited the masses with its proposal and that has brought positive attention to the company. I think THAT may be more to Amazon's stockholders benefit than actually putting drones in the air. At least for right now.

The unfortunate reality of implementing a new idea is that closing your eyes and dreaming it up was the easy part.

Harvey

Sport_Pilot

Have you seen anybody extoll how much they want this? I haven't. But I suppose many customers do want this, but they may also have many neighbours with shotguns who do not. Now I suppose the shotgun is not a problem in your area, but it most certainly is in the rural south, I was not kidding about that.

Sport_Pilot

It's exponential. If complication is C then complication for drone VS car is C^(3/2).

H5487

Show off!