init4fun

[QUOTE=HoundDog;12244581][FONT=comic sans ms][B]It's still 7 airports and 4 R/C clubs. Ask these guys. Surly someone from the TFR area is here on RCU

Ok HoundDog , you appear to have missed my point here . Yes , 4 RC clubs are affected . Now , move that pin from Martha's Vineyard and put it in Worcester , Ma. instead and tell me how many clubs would be affected , FAR more than with the Vineyard vacation , don't ya think , since now all of the 20 mile circle would cover land rather than water ?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Prob rcu based issue...systems been real wonky the past two days.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

The TFR's are only issued for VIPs.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

TFR's come out for a number of reasons, VIP movement, major events like the national conventions, Super Bowl, air shows, etc.

TimJ

there are also temporary flight restrictions over forest fire areas.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Sorry, my post was a joke....

init4fun

Good post HD and I agree 100%

franklin_m

Look, you're on the board, and this is an important safety of flight issue. I'm going to offer a couple suggestions:

(1) AMA does not list TFRs on with web page unless they contain the words "model aircraft" (per discussion w/ I.M. on this subject). I think this is dangerously wrong approach. AMA is not listing any number of TFRs at locations and altitudes where "model aircraft" may operate.

(2) A TFR that applies to "all aircraft" applies to "model aircraft," whether or not those words are specifically used. See FAA Interpretation of the Special Rule on Model Aircraft, the section where they discuss definitions and that a "model aircraft" is indeed an aircraft - as it is clearly "invented, used, or designed" to fly in the air (49 USC 40102 definition of an 'aircraft'). (bottom of page 5 to top of page 6). See also attached email from UAS Integration Office where they confirm.

(3) If TFRs posted on the AMA web page or are sent in emails happen after they've already gone into effect, then they're of little value. Its the responsibility of operators to know what does and does not affect the flight BEFORE flying.

Strong recommendation - get AMA out of the copying TFRs, deciding what is and is not important, and then posting them or sending them in emails days after they're already in effect. Merely steer users to the FAA site and be done with it.

init4fun

Well Franklin , since you determined that the best source for TFR information is the FAA , Can I ask if there is a specific web page you'd recommend of the FAA's that lists TFRs by area ? I would add that page right next to my weather report page to be checked before planning a trip to the field .
Well Franklin , since you determined that the best source for TFR information is the FAA , Can I ask if there is a specific web page you'd recommend of the FAA's that lists TFRs by area ? I would add that page right next to my weather report page to be checked before planning a trip to the field .

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.html

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Not being argumentative and yes U are correct if he vacationed for 3 weeks near U he would shut down many more R/C and GA airports. Goto the AMA find a field and enter 85034 and 50 miles and see the R/C fields
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

I got ya but I was talking about what is really happening for a 3 week period. Anyway when OB DOBY comes to PHX he stops 16 R/c Fields and 8 or more GA airports Including 4 flight schools that I know of. It's A Real economic hard ship for the area with just the flight schools. And yes there were not any TFR's issued for VIP travel until around August 20. 2010.
This is when the authority for TFR's was published. check page 2 of TFR Authority ready reference, it states the types of TFR's and their associated FAR's.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/1...RAuthority.pdf

init4fun

Hound Dog my Friend I'm right with ya that the three weeks in the middle of prime flying season would be a bad thing for anyone , 4 fields or 40 . I was really only praising the fact that Martha's Vineyard is surrounded by so much water because the impact to clubs could have been far worse had the vacation happened elsewhere .

But , the biggest slap in the face of it all is ;

If some jerk terrorist was gonna try to hurt the first family or any other person for whom a TFR is issued , I highly doubt the mission would originate from an established RC club model flying field ! I'm sure at your fields , and at the field I fly at as well , if some stranger began setting up to fly without being known to the club you bet he's gonna get confronted . I truly do not see the reason already known established club fields should be under such restriction , as if the club that has operated for in most cases decades should suddenly be seen as some kind of threat ?

TimJ

lol

TimJ

The FAA is also working on an AP for that.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Finally, someone who gets it....

init4fun

Thank You Tim , I appreciate that info . Did they mention approximately when the AP would be ready ?

franklin_m

I only use *.faa.gov sites for this information

TFRs: http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.html

NOTAMS: https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/


Also note: per the UAS Integration Office email posted just above, anything that applies to "all aircraft" also applies to model aircraft, whether or not they're specifically listed.

franklin_m

They also exist around NFL, MLB, and (I think) all Division 1 NCAA football games. Probably others. Those are not listed on AMA site either, and I don't seem to recall them coming in emails (I live close to Big 10 stadium).

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

The AMA sends out Email to all members and Club Secretaries that are affected by VIP FAR's and other TFR's too I would imagian. It's the Flying Public (Non AMA members) that might run into trouble when flying from some soccer field, school yard, or Park.
I agree with Init that no self (LOL) respecting JOKE here Bacon, would attempt to use a R/C device to attack a VIP or what ever from an established AMA field or flyng site.

On another note out in PHX when the Supper Bowl was played in Glendale AZ. I checked the flight of several planes and there were 3 at different altitudes flying around the Stadium and out as far as 36 miles. I still have the Screen shots. So the Feds are out there checking when there is a TFR that might be some significant threat to something like a supper bowl.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

All stadiums or any gathering that exceeds of 33,000 or more has an automatic 3 mile radius to 3000' AGL 1 hour before to 1 hour after the seclude event. This goes for all Necular Power plants always.

init4fun

Guys , SUPER Thank You for the links !

I've never claimed to be the most computer savvy guy around , and have to admit to being kinda lazy for mastering the art of the search . These links will be most helpful when planning trips to the field . The very last thing I would ever want to do would be to end up as the guy in the news being prosecuted for flying against a TFR . In fact , speaking of news , this afternoon's news is reporting that a pilot of a flight from Chicago encountered a drone flying at the wrong altitude on it's approach to Boston's Logan airport . I would think by now the message of "safe dronning" surely must have been heard by anyone flying a drone any bigger than a parkflyer sized one ? (I guess the pilot reported it was "large" )

franklin_m

I won't say they're the easiest to read or follow, but at least you know where to look.

As for the sporting event one, here's the link:


http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_3621.html
4/3621

"SPECIAL3NMR UP TO AND INCLUDING 3000FT AGLOF ANY STADIUM HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 30,000 OR MORE PEOPLE WHERE EITHER A REGULAR OR POST SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE, OR NCAA DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL GAME IS OCCURRING. THIS NOTAM ALSO APPLIES TO NASCAR SPRINT CUP, INDY CAR, AND CHAMP SERIES RACES EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS. [emphasis added]"

I'm not aware that AMA includes these in their programming (emails or site postings). I live within 3nm of Div 1 NCAA stadium (Penn State - ~100K seats) and I can't think that I've ever received an emails on them.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

It's really easy, but like all learning in all stages of life one most keep an open mind and be willing to roll up their sleeves and invest a little time and effort. Like many things in life you get out of it what you put into it.

Knowledge is power.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

U wouldn't receive any Emails because they are peppermint TFR's. Do U fl in your front yard that's with in 3 miles of the stadium? On most computerized Flight Planing programs after U plan a flight they will come up with warnings if U are going thru any type of restricted areas. Like Nuke Plants Stadiums TFR's MOA's and Prohibited areas and the like.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Peppermint? The ones that have affected us are more like under cooked brussel sprouts

Init, I doubt unless you landed on the Whitehouse lawn you'd be "prosecuted", more likely some fine gentleman or lady with a car or truck with a flashy light bar would ask you to cease operations and be on your way. Spout off about your rights and or they come back 10 minutes later and you're flying again, then you might find yourself in more trouble but most modelers are blissfully unaware of TFR's and NOTAMS. Which is why the AMA emails members within a certain radius when a TFR is issued that affects their local area.