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Old 07-19-2016, 12:30 PM
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http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...s-federal-law/
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:54 PM
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Thanks for posting that. While perusing it, I took notice of the gummit affairs guy's blog. Much back and forth on subject of Sec 336 being for the benefit of AMA members only, as brought up in this forum by Silent. Concurs with what he related. Insanity. Can't believe FAA will buy into the scheme.......probably won't know until well beyond the FAA funding extension period through Sept '17, then passage and FAA's interpretation of the new bill and AMA's next round of protesting it's provisions, yada, yada. Ultimately we'll need to take a lawyer to the field with us to have a flying session.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:19 PM
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Yep so other than FAA registration, things are basically same ole same ole for the next 14 months at least... and i printed a copy of the letter from Barracuda if Leo's or Faa people come to our field to harrass us about our flying...
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Thanks for posting that. While perusing it, I took notice of the gummit affairs guy's blog. Much back and forth on subject of Sec 336 being for the benefit of AMA members only, as brought up in this forum by Silent. Concurs with what he related. Insanity. Can't believe FAA will buy into the scheme.......probably won't know until well beyond the FAA funding extension period through Sept '17, then passage and FAA's interpretation of the new bill and AMA's next round of protesting it's provisions, yada, yada. Ultimately we'll need to take a lawyer to the field with us to have a flying session.
The only insanity I see is from those that cannot fathom that the national organization that they belong to has their best interests at heart. I get that the world will always be filled with critics and folks that see things through a perpetually negative lens, but man.. the anti AMA conspiracies and downright hatred would be comical if it weren't coming from such a pathological place. Even good news is greeted as horrible news. The whole thing just ends up being sad.

The good news, or great news rather, is that the vast majority of those that whine and bitterly complain from the sidelines rarely if ever affect any change. Their sole contribution is to complain, and second guess, and sometimes even look to the past as a way to solve all the problems of the future. They don't get involved at all, many times they aren't even in a club, or in some instances don't even belong to the AMA. So it makes perfect sense that they would know what to do, lol.

Lest anyone get their britches in a bunch, this isn't directed at anyone person, either here or elsewhere, just a commentary in general.

Thank god we do have people though who have volunteered their time and effort and energy and experience and vision and skills to run the AMA and guide it through these difficult times. They are not perfect, but it's doubtful the hobby would be at the place it is now without them. Ya Ya, I know, they embraced drones and brought this all on themselves. A remarkably naive and ignorant statement, but then again, everything the AMA has done has been bad. A disaster. That's why soo many people are getting involved and running for office.

There will be no need to take an attorney to the field, nor for that matter does it seem that the letter from the DOT ever make it's way into an officials hand at a field, but it's nice to have nonetheless.

So to sum up, we spent 5 minutes registering for free (and gave up our life liberty and the pursuit of happiness), and other than that....there is no change to how 99.99% of us will fly, where we can fly, when we can fly, with whom we can fly. I guess we'll never know how much better shape the hobby would be in had all those folks with all of the answers, lot's of self described "traditional" folks longing for the past, gotten involved, been elected to office, and made new history.

My guess is we'd be exactly where we are, same situation, same complaints, same ability to fly.

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Old 07-19-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
Yep so other than FAA registration, things are basically same ole same ole for the next 14 months at least... and i printed a copy of the letter from Barracuda if Leo's or Faa people come to our field to harrass us about our flying...
Exactly, but again, unless you're doing something (or the club) to call attention to yourselves, the chances of LE or the FAA visiting your field is extremely remote. So fly and have fun. If the po po shows up, put 'em on a buddy box and give the a cup of coffee.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Thanks for posting that. While perusing it, I took notice of the gummit affairs guy's blog. Much back and forth on subject of Sec 336 being for the benefit of AMA members only, as brought up in this forum by Silent. Concurs with what he related. Insanity. Can't believe FAA will buy into the scheme.......probably won't know until well beyond the FAA funding extension period through Sept '17, then passage and FAA's interpretation of the new bill and AMA's next round of protesting it's provisions, yada, yada. Ultimately we'll need to take a lawyer to the field with us to have a flying session.
I don’t think the FAA has bought into anything and I don’t think we have heard the last of the 400 ft issue either. IMO it was congress that drink the AMA koolaid and I think if there ever is a incident
where two flyers are caught in the same violation but the FAA tries to only go after the none AMA member I think we will see some changes in the law.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
I donít think the FAA has bought into anything and I donít think we have heard the last of the 400 ft issue either. IMO it was congress that drink the AMA koolaid and I think if there ever is a incident
where two flyers are caught in the same violation but the FAA tries to only go after the none AMA member I think we will see some changes in the law.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...4&d=1468851966
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
I don’t think the FAA has bought into anything and I don’t think we have heard the last of the 400 ft issue either. IMO it was congress that drink the AMA koolaid and I think if there ever is a incident
where two flyers are caught in the same violation but the FAA tries to only go after the none AMA member I think we will see some changes in the law.
Right on, Ira. That's exactly my criteria for reluctantly admitting that AMA's empire-building scheme to privatize the right/privilege of flying model airplanes by grant to them of an exclusive concession by the fed if it comes to that. I am however optimistic about the odds of an epic failure in AMAs endeavor to that end.

As for the 400' issue, what FAA said is the CBO is free to set their own limits. What limits have even been considered by AMA? What will FAA do if the CBO sets no limits, as is their current posture? Rhetorical Qs only, I doubt that you or anyone else that might be impacted has the answers. Just trust that the CBO is doing what is good for you. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Right on, Ira. That's exactly my criteria for reluctantly admitting that AMA's empire-building scheme to privatize the right/privilege of flying model airplanes by grant to them of an exclusive concession by the fed if it comes to that. I am however optimistic about the odds of an epic failure in AMAs endeavor to that end.

If that happens will the AMA still be able to maintain their IRS 501c3 status? Do you think they'll go public so we can buy shares in the AMA. I'm surprised the venture capitalists aren't hot on this "exclusive concession", any idea why?

As for the 400' issue, what FAA said is the CBO is free to set their own limits. What limits have even been considered by AMA? What will FAA do if the CBO sets no limits, as is their current posture? Rhetorical Qs only, I doubt that you or anyone else that might be impacted has the answers. Just trust that the CBO is doing what is good for you. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
..
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon View Post
I noticed in the letter to the AMA the FAA did not say it was mandatory to join the AMA in order to fly over 400 ft and I hope this is the case, as far as I am concerned until the FAA demands
AMA membership or tries make a distinction between AMA and none AMA modelers all is good. I think congress just went with what the AMA told them for now but that could change at the
next go around. In the end it will be the FAA that will be the ones to to make a distinction between AMA and none AMA if they choose to do so.
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Right on, Ira. That's exactly my criteria for reluctantly admitting that AMA's empire-building scheme to privatize the right/privilege of flying model airplanes by grant to them of an exclusive concession by the fed if it comes to that. I am however optimistic about the odds of an epic failure in AMAs endeavor to that end.

As for the 400' issue, what FAA said is the CBO is free to set their own limits. What limits have even been considered by AMA? What will FAA do if the CBO sets no limits, as is their current posture? Rhetorical Qs only, I doubt that you or anyone else that might be impacted has the answers. Just trust that the CBO is doing what is good for you. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Yes we have to wait and see how this plays out but I do wish the AMA would not have opted to try to make special deals with the gov for AMA members only instead of deals for RC aviation in general.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
Yes we have to wait and see how this plays out but I do wish the AMA would not have opted to try to make special deals with the gov for AMA members only instead of deals for RC aviation in general.
Yes yes the 'ol reilable wait and see, wait and see. Worse things might be around the corner. And it makes perfect sense that an organization the collects dues from it's membership would be working hard to benefit those outside of the organization right? Because now they are a public charity? Boy, I can imagine the outcry from the ardent anti-AMA folks now, who does the AMA think they are working for, it's members, or the general public??? Just more of the same damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality here. No matter what they do, it's either too much, or too little.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
I noticed in the letter to the AMA the FAA did not say it was mandatory to join the AMA in order to fly over 400 ft and I hope this is the case, as far as I am concerned until the FAA demands AMA membership or tries make a distinction between AMA and none AMA modelers all is good. I think congress just went with what the AMA told them for now but that could change at the next go around. In the end it will be the FAA that will be the ones to to make a distinction between AMA and none AMA if they choose to do so.
Right, the FAA didn't name a specific CBO, and it's doubtful they ever will, even after drinking the evil empires Kool Aide. They have however made distinctions between those that fly under a CBOs safety rules versus those who don't, and that's a good thing. I wonder who fought for that distinction? The FAA and LE will be going after a pilot when they do something stupid, AMA member or not. What might make a difference is their registration status however. The chances that an AMA member will be caught doing something wrong or engaged in some inappropriate activity however is extremely remote, since we follow our rules and regs. Our safety record is second to none. Some might call it exemplary, but one safety focused member here challenges that routinely with one off instances here and there over 80 years. So from now on I'm going to use the term "stellar". Why stellar? Well, that's the term that the 14 signatories to the purported Declaration of Drone Independence used back when they wrote that rambling, horribly written manifesto from November of last year.

Don't remember that document? It was a doozy. Reminded me of similar manifestos written by high-schoolers who complain to the school when chicken nuggets are pulled from the cafeteria. We have right, hear us loud and clear! LoL. You might recall that these 14 folks who ostensibly represented "traditional" modeling couldn't even manage to spell Rich Hanson's name right. Can you imagine? And the first signatory was Frank Tiano, and this guy wants to be the president of the AMA? Sorry, if you can't get something so simple as a person's name right.....jeez. They went on to tell the AMA how "drones" should be defined, as if that would make a difference to the FAA. It was amateur hour at it's most embarrassing.

14 guys, all with a vested interest in keeping the status quo and protecting their "traditional" modeling turf. That debacle of a letter went nowhere of course, they couldn't even scare up support outside of a few hundred signatures by going around from one fly in to the next. What sad wasted efforts!

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Old 07-20-2016, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Right on, Ira. That's exactly my criteria for reluctantly admitting that AMA's empire-building scheme to privatize the right/privilege of flying model airplanes by grant to them of an exclusive concession by the fed if it comes to that. I am however optimistic about the odds of an epic failure in AMAs endeavor to that end.

As for the 400' issue, what FAA said is the CBO is free to set their own limits. What limits have even been considered by AMA? What will FAA do if the CBO sets no limits, as is their current posture? Rhetorical Qs only, I doubt that you or anyone else that might be impacted has the answers. Just trust that the CBO is doing what is good for you. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
LoL...this is a new one for sure. "Deep within one the rage deep is running..." said Yoda. All this talk of Evil Empire reminded me of Darth Vader. Yes, what treachery the AMA propagates on behalf of it's membership.

I've seen some hard core anti AMA sentiment over the past 4 years, but not many have had the temerity to actually come out and say they were optimistic about a fail on the AMA's part...well, not just a fail but an epic fail on the AMA's part. Like a limbo game, the bar keeps being lowered.

If you don't like what the AMA is doing, why not get more involved? Rhetorical question of course, it's clear for the most part nobody wants to do that because it requires more than just posting on the internet.
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Old 07-20-2016, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
I noticed in the letter to the AMA the FAA did not say it was mandatory to join the AMA in order to fly over 400 ft and I hope this is the case, as far as I am concerned until the FAA demands
AMA membership or tries make a distinction between AMA and none AMA modelers all is good. I think congress just went with what the AMA told them for now but that could change at the
next go around.

Somehow I don't see congress taking direction from the AMA. It's not like the AMA has millions of members or donates millions of dollars like other organizations do. It's not like congress has never dealt with similar legislation before either.

In the end it will be the FAA that will be the ones to to make a distinction between AMA and none AMA if they choose to do so.
..
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Old 07-20-2016, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Yes yes the 'ol reilable wait and see, wait and see. Worse things might be around the corner. And it makes perfect sense that an organization the collects dues from it's membership would be working hard to benefit those outside of the organization right? Because now they are a public charity? Boy, I can imagine the outcry from the ardent anti-AMA folks now, who does the AMA think they are working for, it's members, or the general public??? Just more of the same damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality here. No matter what they do, it's either too much, or too little.
Two years, two years.
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Old 07-20-2016, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
LoL...this is a new one for sure. "Deep within one the rage deep is running..." said Yoda. All this talk of Evil Empire reminded me of Darth Vader. Yes, what treachery the AMA propagates on behalf of it's membership.

I've seen some hard core anti AMA sentiment over the past 4 years, but not many have had the temerity to actually come out and say they were optimistic about a fail on the AMA's part...well, not just a fail but an epic fail on the AMA's part. Like a limbo game, the bar keeps being lowered.

If you don't like what the AMA is doing, why not get more involved? Rhetorical question of course, it's clear for the most part nobody wants to do that because it requires more than just posting on the internet.
What do you mean? It's all part of making America great again. We're going to drive AMA cars, live in AMA houses, travel on AMA airliners, bank at AMA banks. No end in sight to that empire building scheme.
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Old 07-20-2016, 04:15 AM
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And in other news....THE SKY IS FALLING....
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Old 07-20-2016, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
And in other news....THE SKY IS FALLING....
Just like yesterday.
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
If you don't like what the AMA is doing, why not get more involved? Rhetorical question of course, it's clear for the most part nobody wants to do that because it requires more than just posting on the internet.
That seem to be your boilerplate response to anyone with gripe about AMA. The loo in the local public house reeks...... I should volunteer to do the janitor's job.
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
That seem to be your boilerplate response to anyone with gripe about AMA. The loo in the local public house reeks...... I should volunteer to do the janitor's job.
Well yeah, if you don't like what is happening, go fix it. In other words get off your ass and do something instead of sitting around *****ing for the sake of *****ing.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
That seem to be your boilerplate response to anyone with gripe about AMA. The loo in the local public house reeks...... I should volunteer to do the janitor's job.
One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting to get a different result.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:27 AM
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Lol, with all this back and forth; let's see if yall can follow..

"1st rule of fight club"
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
And in other news....THE SKY IS FALLING....
It will be falling tomorrow too.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
Well yeah, if you don't like what is happening, go fix it. In other words get off your ass and do something instead of sitting around *****ing for the sake of *****ing.
Yes sir! I'll join a posse to round up them there renegade flyers and bring them back to the AMA commune to be programmed. Will there be shiny badges? Guns?
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