rcmiket

Yep. The FAA isn't really and has never been a fan of FPV and I think this is going to be a issue for them. I don't believe FPV even falls with in Sec 336.

Mike

Sport_Pilot

I believe the sticking point is spotters. The article was not accurate, it did not point out part 101 for example. They and the FAA said nothing about FPV with spotters. When does the new part 101 take effect?

rcmiket

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx#107

This is the last mention of 107 on the AMA site. Nothing mentioned about FPV. Now being this is a 624 page document I have no clue if anyone has read this thing. I would imagine ( but don't really know) that "lawyer" quoted in the article should be more up to speed on this than us mere mortals.

Mike

porcia83

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Right, as usual the articles give part of the picture. The same topic can be discussed by two different news sources and the stories look different. There won't be any big change or problems with FPV/MR racing, and you're right again, spotters are the key.

porcia83

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Interesting. Wonder if Rupprecht's firm will weigh in on this? I suspect we'll have clarification (or rather a confirmation of previous messaging) from the AMA shortly.

porcia83

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Ya, as suspected, it's the same author that has done some pretty poor "reporting" in the past, John Goglia. I like that the Forbes site makes it clear it's the authors opinion, ie he's not a reporter from Forbes who is held to the same standards as real reporters, he's a "contributor", a fancy term for blogger. He's done similar articles like this in the past, real click bait alarmist sort of stuff. It sounds familiar. Odd that he never asked the FAA questions about spotters.

I liked this part though....it sort of parroted what the AMA had said earlier

Q: Has any organization other than the AMA been determined to qualify as a community based organization for the purposes of Part 101?
A: The FAA’s interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, which was published in the Federal Register on June 25, 2014, noted that the AMA qualified as a community-based organization to provide an example of what types of organizations would qualify. The FAA does not intend to maintain a list of organizations that would qualify as a CBO under the Special Rule for Model Aircraft.

Q: Also, will model aircraft pilots who do not belong to the AMA have to get a remote pilot certificate under Part 107 after August 29?
A: The FAA does not mandate membership in any particular community-based organization.

franklin_m

Concur. FPV does and should scare FAA. There's nothing in 336 that says anything about FPV, so the FAA took it out of AMA's hands.

rcmiket

If memory serves the LOS deal ( AMA doc. 550) was added to the AMA Safety Code after the FAA starting looking at all this..
Bottom line the FAA not the AMA will have the final say lawyers can lawyer all they want but whatever the FAA decides on this is what will stick.
Seems like this changes everyday anyway, Wasn't it just last month our Muncie guys were "celebrating " their great victory over the FAA?

Mike

franklin_m

It was added to the AMA's "code," but I think this is the FAA saying that self regulation / CBO guidelines are insufficient for safety of the National Airspace System.

I agree with you about the lawyers. Until FAA is overturned in court or an injunction issued, the rule interpretation stands.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Hard to keep track of all the celebrating, but ya, that was probably one instance. I don't think anyone, including the AMA even thought they would have the final say in anything though. That sentiment is really only found here. Did the AMA ever say they would have the final say in anything? Source? Link? Citation?

Me thinks the reason they have liaisons and point people like Chad, and of course our advocates signify that they are working with regulators to craft decisions that are in our best interests. When we grow to the size of the NRA, I'm sure we'll be more effective.

Silent-AV8R

You might want to take a look at this:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/AFSCREPORT101.pdf

AMA first wrote up their FPV rules in 2008, which predates any concerns from the FAA that I recall. It certainly predates P.L. 112.95/Section 336 by 4 years and the FAA's Interpretation os the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (where they spelled out their interpretation of FPV uses) by 6 full years.

rcmiket

Thanks. I was just going by the documents themselves which were not dated.

Mike

Sport_Pilot

That would of course mean that the FAA cannot issue a regulation on this. But of course the FAA does not agree per the "endanger the NAS" clause. Then the definition of NAS comes to play.

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

But of course the FAA was well aware and concerned about use of Advanced Flight Systems technology well before the AMA took action. After all we're talking about military technology that his since trickled down into the hands of civilian operators. I don't understand how anyone can convince themselves into believing that a CBO could be allowed to govern such advanced model aircraft? The FAA has been watching the hobby industry advancement and has finally determined it's time to step in. Left alone it was sure to turn into an out of control situation.

porcia83

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As always, there will be some folks are just going to convince themselves of what they want, no matter what fact or logic can be shown contrary. Conspiracy theories involving the FAA or any other govt entities are nothing new, the same with AMA ones. The logic is flawed, the same logic that says if people keep asking questions, something must be wrong!!! The FAA will always have the ultimate say when dealing with safety, and the national airspace. To think that some group like the AMA could do that is just silly. Now, once we grow to the size of the NRA or an organization like that, well maybe we'll have more of a say in terms of what happens. Time will tell!

TimJ

FPV Flying falls under the programming of the AMA.........Come on people. Document 550 and 560.

rcmiket

I believe the same was said about registration. "the FAA won't bother with us". All the FAA needs to do is play the "safety" card and it's done. They do have that ability and believe they have the authority.to do so. They have said so on may occasions.

Mike

franklin_m

How's that argument working our so far? Say on registration?

Scissors paper rock ... FAA wins.

porcia83

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I believe the specific discussion surrounded the requirement to register each plane, which of course was something that was noted by some to be "just around the corner", another rumor put out there that came to be just that, a rumor. Oh I know it " could" happen in the future, but as if now, not so much.

franklin_m

I don't think it's size as much as it is failure of self regulation. One only needs to look at the EC minutes from July to see there's problems with the whole CBO self regulation methodology.

If AMA is having compliance problems in arguably their highest risk operations (ones you'd think would be closely watched), then why in the world would FAA think they'd be even better at FPV rule compliance?

franklin_m

No, I believe the AMA's position was that it's members already "register" by being required to use AMA number in/on aircraft. FAA resoundingly rejected that argument.

porcia83

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The five minute registration that was free? Worked out good so far, certainly better than the rumor that we were going to have to register every plane we owned. How did that work out again?

The FAA will always get the final say... nobody here has said otherwise, nor did the AMA indicate this.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

And how about the doom and gloom that I mentioned earlier about registering every plane we had. I remember that being another tempest in a teapot that never came to be.

Kudos for the argument the AMA went into discussions with, better to have gone in with nothing? Are we back to second guessing them after the fact, again? Did any other group get everything they were asking for. Does the NRA?

Sport_Pilot

Is the jury still out on the lawsuits. I know that one of them was thrown out due to lack of standing. AMA may still have theirs in the system. Takes a long time.

Sport_Pilot

What failure. Was there a mid-air between a model and full scale aircraft that I am not aware of?