AMA Insider calls for CHANGE. VP running for President supports TRADITIONAL MODELLERS
08-15-2016, 04:16 PM
#101
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Right, so it does appear to be some kind of personal grudge thing, figured as much. I never said anything about Tiano needing to wear a Scarlet Letter for the fact that he was an AVP and is no longer , I'm really questioning why that is the case. Oh and for the record he actually brought that up in his campaign statement. sounds like it may be a sensitive issue though. And again he is the candidate running and unless I'm mistaken the two other parties you reference are not running for the position so why would that be any matter for discussion in this thread.
08-15-2016, 04:43 PM
#102
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Right, so it does appear to be some kind of personal grudge thing, figured as much. I never said anything about Tiano needing to wear a Scarlet Letter for the fact that he was an AVP and is no longer , I'm really questioning why that is the case. Oh and for the record he actually brought that up in his campaign statement. sounds like it may be a sensitive issue though. And again he is the candidate running and unless I'm mistaken the two other parties you reference are not running for the position so why would that be any matter for discussion in this thread.
Why did you bring Frank Tiano and the questioning of his former AVP status up in this thread about another candidate?
08-15-2016, 04:48 PM
#103
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The question was asked what will happen if "we" separate from "them." The answer is the death of the AMA. There are already several community organizations for MR flying. None have gained the critical mass yet to become a national representative yet, but they are on their way. If the AMA pushes away the MR crowd, their organisations will grow. Then they'll become a real player in government negotiations and grow more. If they are smart, they'll incorporate benefits for the park flyer crowd who are probably also flying MR vehicles. That will give them the two fastest growing segments of the RC hobby while the AMA continues to age. Eventually dues won't be able to support AMA services and promotion, so it will cease to exist. That will take a while, but a decision to be traditionalist now will make it a certainty. Then when the AMA goes, so will most clubs' insurance. Some might find other coverage, but many won't be able to and will have to close. As an organization, we need the funds and the energy of young people. If that means embracing newfangled gadgets that they like, so be it. But the truth is that most have already been turned away by selfish jerks who only want to be around glow powered balsa planes. Such people have already doomed their clubs to death once their generation is gone. If we let them, they will do the same to the AMA.
Adapt to change, or die a slow but assured death. Thank god the AMA has been so accepting of ALL types of models, disciplines, and technologies. I bet it would be swell to still fly 72!
08-15-2016, 04:58 PM
#104
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So why again did you want to bring in two posters here that aren't running for office and talk about prior positions that might have held when it had nothing to do with running for office? I've asked three times now with no answer, although I suspect I know the answer.
08-15-2016, 05:10 PM
#105
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posts 4,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,16,17,18,20,22,25,26,27,29,30 ,36,37,38,40,41,42,45,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,5 9,60,62,63,64,66,67...i stopped there after discussions about people being banned, sock puppets, high horses, leader members, e-mails to AMA, etc etc etc. You were there all along the way, and didn't seem to have any issues with those discussions. I get that Tougas is now your preferred choice, all fine and well, but discussions regarding him and other candidates are going to happen in many of the threads. Let's not let this one degenerate into something not even remotely related to the campaigns, deal?
08-15-2016, 05:14 PM
#106
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LoL, good stuff. We're going to go that route eh? Please take some time and go back to post # 1, and focus in on all the comments from the rest of the folks that have absolutely nothing to do with this specific persons elections, including yours. If you want to preach about thread topic purity, walk the walk as well. You actively participate in many threads in the AMA forums that have much to do with all things AMA, and this is certainly one of them. Once they candidates launch their statements, it's fair game to question them and their past actions, as well as what they plan to do specifically to run this organization. So ya, if Tiano wants to highlight the fact that he was an AVP for 5 years, but won't explain why he stopped being one, I think that's a fair question. Just as it's fair to look at Tougas's campaign promises as VP, and then see what if any of those promises were kept.
So why again did you want to bring in two posters here that aren't running for office and talk about prior positions that might have held when it had nothing to do with running for office? I've asked three times now with no answer, although I suspect I know the answer.
So why again did you want to bring in two posters here that aren't running for office and talk about prior positions that might have held when it had nothing to do with running for office? I've asked three times now with no answer, although I suspect I know the answer.
I brought up other AVPs that are now retired from the AVP position, because of your insensitivity that others are present in the same position while you are inferring that it was questionable as to character, etc. as a faux pas that I found amusing.
Over and Out
08-15-2016, 05:29 PM
#108
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I think you just did......Horrace McCain? If not, don't know off the top of my head. I'm sure stranger things have happened, and again, if a candidate is running it might be a point to question them on. If Tougas made promises to do things and didn't deliver, I would ask why. If McCain ran for an office that he previously had and quit, I'd ask why. If Tiano had a higher AMA position and then didn't, I think it's a fair question. obviously, not everyone will share that position.
08-15-2016, 05:33 PM
#109
Banned
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You seemed to be more interested in making his background "questionable" that you are about getting an answer. You know how to get to his web site, so why don't you ask him?
I brought up other AVPs that are now retired from the AVP position, because of your insensitivity that others are present in the same position while you are inferring that it was questionable as to character, etc. as a faux pas that I found amusing.
Over and Out
I brought up other AVPs that are now retired from the AVP position, because of your insensitivity that others are present in the same position while you are inferring that it was questionable as to character, etc. as a faux pas that I found amusing.
Over and Out
08-15-2016, 05:42 PM
#110
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The question was asked what will happen if "we" separate from "them." The answer is the death of the AMA. There are already several community organizations for MR flying. None have gained the critical mass yet to become a national representative yet, but they are on their way. If the AMA pushes away the MR crowd, their organisations will grow. Then they'll become a real player in government negotiations and grow more. If they are smart, they'll incorporate benefits for the park flyer crowd who are probably also flying MR vehicles. That will give them the two fastest growing segments of the RC hobby while the AMA continues to age. Eventually dues won't be able to support AMA services and promotion, so it will cease to exist. That will take a while, but a decision to be traditionalist now will make it a certainty. Then when the AMA goes, so will most clubs' insurance. Some might find other coverage, but many won't be able to and will have to close. As an organization, we need the funds and the energy of young people. If that means embracing newfangled gadgets that they like, so be it. But the truth is that most have already been turned away by selfish jerks who only want to be around glow powered balsa planes. Such people have already doomed their clubs to death once their generation is gone. If we let them, they will do the same to the AMA.
Mike
08-15-2016, 05:50 PM
#111
Banned
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Is that the same candidate who is running on a platform of "traditional modeling" and is about as anti-MR as can be? Boy, if I asked if someone was lying I'd never hear the end of it, lol. Lying seems like a strong word. Perhaps he's just ignorant of the facts? Did he not get the same information we all did about how successful the Best Buy marketing program was, what was that new member sign in number, 7, 8, or 900 brand new members? How could he miss that information, those were absolute numbers based on new purchases. If he did, well, that's on him as a member of the EC (assuming it's Tougas). If he did get them, but misrepresent them, well then, that's a whole different story.
08-15-2016, 06:54 PM
#112
There have been many posts here and elsewhere from "traditional" members bemoaning everything from ARF's to Foamies, wishing and wanting to go back to the days of scratchbuilding and dope.
They lament the "kids" getting into the hobby and all the technology that allows them to fly without going through the hurdles they had to.
And finally some of the feel that they themselves built the AMA into what it is today, not having a clue in the world that it was actually the AMA EC, and the collective membership who did so.
I bet it would be swell to still fly 72!
Porcia, For all of the preaching you do here for others to stay on topic and keep the discussions positive, you sure make it hard to do so. You really should take a step back once in a while, read what you post and ask yourself if it fits within the "rules" you would like others to adhere to. This would be a much friendlier place. Come on, be the bigger man and start a new, "positive and friendly" trend. Take Mom's advice, if you don't have something positive to say, keep it to yourself. Just because you believe Tiano and Tougas are evil, you don't have to sing it from the mountaintop day in and day out.
Regards,
Astro
08-15-2016, 07:10 PM
#113
Banned
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I think you are wrong.
Way to paraphrase to shed a negative light on the "traditionalists". I have been involved in every thread here about "traditional" modeling. It has been explained to you tirelessly. Admittedly, there were some widely varied opinions on what "traditional" modeling is, there was NEVER once anyone that believed that it meant the hobby was about scratch-building and dope. If there was, I beg you to post it here, otherwise, we can just write your comments off to wild exaggerations and drama.
Again, one of your wild exaggerations. I don't recall anyone saying that, rather, that they resented that anyone could open a box from Walmart and cause the problems they have in the NAS without a second thought or any "skin" in the game, WITHOUT regard for the AMA.
Somebody SAID that? Or is that just another of your exaggerations and twisted interpretations, "as Porcia sees it"?
Actually, we wouldn't be under scrutiny like we are now if we still flew 72!!!!
Porcia, For all of the preaching you do here for others to stay on topic and keep the discussions positive, you sure make it hard to do so. You really should take a step back once in a while, read what you post and ask yourself if it fits within the "rules" you would like others to adhere to. This would be a much friendlier place. Come on, be the bigger man and start a new, "positive and friendly" trend. Take Mom's advice, if you don't have something positive to say, keep it to yourself. Just because you believe Tiano and Tougas are evil, you don't have to sing it from the mountaintop day in and day out.
Regards,
Astro
Way to paraphrase to shed a negative light on the "traditionalists". I have been involved in every thread here about "traditional" modeling. It has been explained to you tirelessly. Admittedly, there were some widely varied opinions on what "traditional" modeling is, there was NEVER once anyone that believed that it meant the hobby was about scratch-building and dope. If there was, I beg you to post it here, otherwise, we can just write your comments off to wild exaggerations and drama.
Again, one of your wild exaggerations. I don't recall anyone saying that, rather, that they resented that anyone could open a box from Walmart and cause the problems they have in the NAS without a second thought or any "skin" in the game, WITHOUT regard for the AMA.
Somebody SAID that? Or is that just another of your exaggerations and twisted interpretations, "as Porcia sees it"?
Actually, we wouldn't be under scrutiny like we are now if we still flew 72!!!!
Porcia, For all of the preaching you do here for others to stay on topic and keep the discussions positive, you sure make it hard to do so. You really should take a step back once in a while, read what you post and ask yourself if it fits within the "rules" you would like others to adhere to. This would be a much friendlier place. Come on, be the bigger man and start a new, "positive and friendly" trend. Take Mom's advice, if you don't have something positive to say, keep it to yourself. Just because you believe Tiano and Tougas are evil, you don't have to sing it from the mountaintop day in and day out.
Regards,
Astro
08-15-2016, 07:27 PM
#114
I thought the petty antics and intolerance were on the way out with the long goodbye and deleted posts, I guess not. It would be fun and a rather simple exercise to respond to each comment, but I'm going to pass going forward (as I indicated previously). I'll go ahead and keep posting my thoughts and opinions and you keep posting yours, and we'll agree to disagree as needed, mmkay? Let's leave mother's out of the equation too.
As long as you continue to put bias and spin into your posts, I will continue to point it out and ask that you quantify your statements. If I get labeled or banned for doing that, so be it. I would not want to be part of a community that allows a member to make statements unchecked.
Oh, and by the way, you almost ALWAYS "pass" when it comes to the difficult questions, why is that?
Regards,
Astro
08-15-2016, 07:31 PM
#115
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...statement.html
Regards,
Astro
08-15-2016, 07:38 PM
#116
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I thought the petty antics and intolerance were on the way out with the long goodbye and deleted posts, I guess not. It would be fun and a rather simple exercise to respond to each comment, but I'm going to pass going forward (as I indicated previously). I'll go ahead and keep posting my thoughts and opinions and you keep posting yours, and we'll agree to disagree as needed, mmkay? Let's leave mother's out of the equation too.
08-15-2016, 08:06 PM
#117
Moderator
Myself, I think the AMA has already been too slow to incorporate MR, FPV, and autonomous aircraft into the hobby. There are so many really neat competitive things that can be done with them, which is very much in the AMA's wheelhouse. And honestly that would probably be the best way to get MR pilots interested in the AMA. The AMA could also be hub for information about commercial licensing and MR safety, bringing back its TRADITIONAL focus of education. But the AMA has made no attempt at either. There may still be time to establish some competitive events and a club sponsor system for MR focused activities, but the door is closing. That mistake probably won't cost me the chance to participate in this hobby in my lifetime, but the consequences for the next generation will be far reaching.
08-16-2016, 01:38 AM
#119
I think you just did......Horrace McCain? If not, don't know off the top of my head. I'm sure stranger things have happened, and again, if a candidate is running it might be a point to question them on. If Tougas made promises to do things and didn't deliver, I would ask why. If McCain ran for an office that he previously had and quit, I'd ask why. If Tiano had a higher AMA position and then didn't, I think it's a fair question. obviously, not everyone will share that position.
and, do we know if tiano quit his DVP position, was voted out, or just did not run for re election?
08-16-2016, 02:46 AM
#120
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No, he isn't lying at all. I would say that the AMA has not reached out effectively to the MR crowd. I am a "traditional" aeromodeler, at least as traditional as you can be with ARFs and 2.4ghz radios. I also own a quadcopter with a camera and autonomous flight controller that I fly some. I am very appreciative of the AMA for its advocating on behalf of hobby RC flight of all kinds. But I wouldn't join the AMA if I was only a quad pilot and not an airplane pilot too who is a member of an RC club. Why? Because the AMA has not built value into being a member for MR pilots. The insurance doesn't really do much for them when flying the way MR craft are normally flown. The magazine has little to say about MR craft, so I wouldn't find that valuable. And the hostility of so many current AMA members and some of its leadership toward the MR crowd would push me away for sure. Definitely, the AMA will take money from the MR crowd if they are apt to send it in and has advertised to them that they really should do so. But the MR crowd doesn't really get anything for it, and at some times the AMA actively works against them.
Myself, I think the AMA has already been too slow to incorporate MR, FPV, and autonomous aircraft into the hobby. There are so many really neat competitive things that can be done with them, which is very much in the AMA's wheelhouse. And honestly that would probably be the best way to get MR pilots interested in the AMA. The AMA could also be hub for information about commercial licensing and MR safety, bringing back its TRADITIONAL focus of education. But the AMA has made no attempt at either. There may still be time to establish some competitive events and a club sponsor system for MR focused activities, but the door is closing. That mistake probably won't cost me the chance to participate in this hobby in my lifetime, but the consequences for the next generation will be far reaching.
Myself, I think the AMA has already been too slow to incorporate MR, FPV, and autonomous aircraft into the hobby. There are so many really neat competitive things that can be done with them, which is very much in the AMA's wheelhouse. And honestly that would probably be the best way to get MR pilots interested in the AMA. The AMA could also be hub for information about commercial licensing and MR safety, bringing back its TRADITIONAL focus of education. But the AMA has made no attempt at either. There may still be time to establish some competitive events and a club sponsor system for MR focused activities, but the door is closing. That mistake probably won't cost me the chance to participate in this hobby in my lifetime, but the consequences for the next generation will be far reaching.
From the Jan EC minutes.
"• Best Buy Program: the program is underperforming, not meeting expectations by a wide margin. Reasons might be that the program was launched late and during the holiday season sales were softer than expected; the ED felt Best Buy did not promote the program and it was not launched in as many stores as it could have been. Mathewson has a call scheduled next week with Luke Thornburg their Product Development Manager to try and get this program back on track. Only 903 cards activated for redemption in Best Buy stores and of those, only 285 have been activated with AMA. "
Now from the April minutes.
"• Best Buy Program: revenue generated through end of February was $62,092; the program has become profitable for us although not what we had hoped. Still working with them to make improvements. "
So which is it is it working or not? Regardless if we took in money or not FREE to the end user is just that FREE. When the time comes to pony up $75 bucks will they?
Now if we can't get them to redeem FREE membership offers just what can we do to get them to join? Then how do we get them to turn FREE into paying members?.
You suggest the AMA to become the " hub for information about commercial licensing" that's not what were about .
They are a "Self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity."
You also mention "MR safety" I believe they also have that covered in the safety code along with" Know before you fly" ( which they are listed as one of the founders.)
Now the only group of MR users I see actually "flocking" ( which ain't happening according to a individual on the EC council running for president) to the AMA is the racing crowd as MulitGP the sanctioning body requires AMA to race and we still don't know just how many were members before joining MutliGP and are actually new AMA members. Just how many will remain paying members after the newness of racing wears off.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 08-16-2016 at 06:04 AM. Reason: Added Content
08-16-2016, 03:43 AM
#122
Well, a handful of thoughts:
- Well, if people are following "the code" and the "programming" as well as the organization is saying they do, then it shouldn't be easy to find documentation of planes going into crowds, people being injured, or examples of people touching planes under power (something I note is specifically prohibited by "the code."). So why worry?
- As for questioning how the money is spent, last time I checked that's one of the ideas behind making 501c3's post their tax information. Everyone's got their own opinion, and I do not agree with how the organization is spending my money.
- On issues of importance to me, like discounts for E5 and below, it's no different than someone wanting to hand out free memberships to 19 and under. Except that AMA decided to one and not the other. I'll keep bringing it up and we'll just see what happens. And they can (and likely will) keep denying it. Heck, they won't even put it to a vote!
- On some of the unprofessional staff work, it goes to how the money is being spent and the type of performance I see for that money. As a paying member I'm entitled to my opinion. Even as a non-paying member, but a taxpayer, I'm entitled to my opinion. Unfortunately, that opinion, more often than not supported by source documents, is met with mockery and sarcasm.
- And your favorite topic of late, a comment I made in frustration, for which I said I regretted. It must be nice to have never done such a thing yourself, here or anywhere else. So I guess that gives you the right to throw stones. Since I'll clearly never get there, I'd ask how is the view from on high?
I'm not sure what you mean by alliances being risked. I can only note that you're the first Leader Member I've ever met. I think I can fairly say that as an ambassador for the hobby and as an ambassador for all that is good, welcoming and open about the AMA, here in these forums, there is no equal.
- Well, if people are following "the code" and the "programming" as well as the organization is saying they do, then it shouldn't be easy to find documentation of planes going into crowds, people being injured, or examples of people touching planes under power (something I note is specifically prohibited by "the code."). So why worry?
- As for questioning how the money is spent, last time I checked that's one of the ideas behind making 501c3's post their tax information. Everyone's got their own opinion, and I do not agree with how the organization is spending my money.
- On issues of importance to me, like discounts for E5 and below, it's no different than someone wanting to hand out free memberships to 19 and under. Except that AMA decided to one and not the other. I'll keep bringing it up and we'll just see what happens. And they can (and likely will) keep denying it. Heck, they won't even put it to a vote!
- On some of the unprofessional staff work, it goes to how the money is being spent and the type of performance I see for that money. As a paying member I'm entitled to my opinion. Even as a non-paying member, but a taxpayer, I'm entitled to my opinion. Unfortunately, that opinion, more often than not supported by source documents, is met with mockery and sarcasm.
- And your favorite topic of late, a comment I made in frustration, for which I said I regretted. It must be nice to have never done such a thing yourself, here or anywhere else. So I guess that gives you the right to throw stones. Since I'll clearly never get there, I'd ask how is the view from on high?
I'm not sure what you mean by alliances being risked. I can only note that you're the first Leader Member I've ever met. I think I can fairly say that as an ambassador for the hobby and as an ambassador for all that is good, welcoming and open about the AMA, here in these forums, there is no equal.
08-16-2016, 03:59 AM
#124
I think the time is here and now, Init. The drones aka flying cameras are a different breed, but that's not to invalidate them as a worthwhile hobby pursuit. They deserve to have organization, representation and advocacy just as much as model aircraft enthusiasts do.......but not by the same organization.
08-16-2016, 04:05 AM
#125
Banned
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actually, i had overlooked hoss. was thinking about the guy, D-8, who was a DVP then president then dropped out for a bit as just a modeler, and then was some position again, then ended as the DVP. ran a hobby shop in dallas through all this. all this happened in the 60s-early80s. can not remember his name.
and, do we know if tiano quit his DVP position, was voted out, or just did not run for re election?
and, do we know if tiano quit his DVP position, was voted out, or just did not run for re election?