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AMA Insider calls for CHANGE. VP running for President supports TRADITIONAL MODELLERS

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AMA Insider calls for CHANGE. VP running for President supports TRADITIONAL MODELLERS

Old 08-16-2016, 04:07 AM
  #126  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
So what happens when LOS radio control becomes as old fashioned as rubber powered free flight is now? Will we still be arguing that the AMA is not promoting the hobby? What happens to the fields when 95% are flying FPV? Do we lose our fields and have to drive hundreds of miles as many free-flighter's do now?
That's a great point, and interesting perspective for sure. Don't know the answer, but I'm sure folks then will still be complaining about the AMA.
Old 08-16-2016, 04:38 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
That certainly is a good question but one that Astro and more recently CJ seem to have a huge problem with.
Porcia,

Please refrain from twisting what I have posted and portraying it into something it is not. I could care less why Tiano left his position, nor have I ever alluded that I care. You have posed the question numerous times in this thread knowing you won't get an answer, yet you will not pose the question to the man himself (even though there is now a forum provided for that now). You have browbeat several members on this forum for doing the exact thing and the double-standard thing gets old.

Astro
Old 08-16-2016, 04:45 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
The AMA reached out to them with FREE memberships thru Best Buy that by their own admission didn't do well but did net about 900 new FREE members. Now just how many FREE offers we given out and how many were redeemed I don't have off hand. Now if we can't get them to redeem FREE membership offers just what can we do to get them to join? Then how do we get them to turn FREE into paying members?.
You suggest the AMA to become the " hub for information about commercial licensing" that's not what were about .

They are a "Self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity."

You also mention "MR safety" I believe they also have that covered in the safety code along with" Know before you fly" ( which they are listed as one of the founders.)
Now the only group of MR users I see actually flocking to the AMA is the racing crowd as MulitGP the sanctioning body requires AMA to race and we still don't know just how many were members before joining MutliGP and are actually new AMA members. Just how many will remain paying members after the newness of racing wears off.
Mike
Revisionist history at it's best, and outright lie or distortion at worst. Folks really need to get their facts straight before spewing out this misinformation. Either they don't know what they don't know and want to pass it off as fact, or they know the facts and want to avoid the obvious.

The AMA never said the program wasn't successful or didn't do well. In fact they said the exact opposite. It was successful, just not as successful as they would have liked.

As for the FREE membership....you are again, mistaken.

The only think you got remotely right is that there are MR racers flocking to the AMA, I'm glad you've changed your previously help opinion that NOBODY with quads or drones were joining the AMA>.
Old 08-16-2016, 08:33 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Now all you have to do is convince the MR crowd to join the AMA. The AMA has reached out to them have they not? One of the candidates in this election says it ain't happening. Is he lying?
Mike
Remember when you pulled this quote out from Tougas's webpage?

Interesting, this is from Tougas's FB page (a re post from Tim J. I'm posting it due to the fact that I along with others have been saying just this since we ( the AMA) started chasing the "droners" thinking we would get a influx of new members. According to him it ain't happening.
Now is it fact or just BS to get the "traditional modeler" vote?

"Since an MRM pilot doesn’t need flight instruction and they can be flown from a small area there is no incentive to join a local club or the AMA. This is reflected in our membership numbers. Less than 10% of our members list MRM or First Person View (FPV) as their interest. Most of the current MRM and FPV pilots that are AMA members are traditional modelers who have expanded into these areas not new recruits to our fold. So if we are not seeing a large increase in membership in these areas then why is the AMA chasing people who have clearly spoken that the AMA is not for them? Like most important questions it’s a complex issue. The original decision to market to MRM and FPV modelers was made with the best intentions. The thought was the AMA would have a new stream of members to fund all of our membership programs such as flying site assistance grants, education scholarships, political outreach, etc. Now we have a much better understanding of the market and it shows that it is time to reassess our plan. Elect me and I will conduct a review of our plan and work with the Executive Council to make the needed changes."

Mike


So we know we have about 900 new members from the Best Buy Program, and Tougas himself is confirming that under 10% (not totally helpful there, 1% is less than 10, so is 9.9) are MR/Drone focused. So, lets do the math again. 180k members. 10% of that...18,000...lets knock of 3k just to be nice...and level off at 15,000 people.

So ya, I think when you talk about someone lying about there being no members associated with MR....someone is probably lying (or completely ignorant of fact). Good point to have brought up.
Old 08-16-2016, 08:52 AM
  #130  
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Here is an interesting ENDORSEMENT for AMA President. -Click the link!
Old 08-16-2016, 10:00 AM
  #131  
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A nice find, well written (regardless of who he wants to vote for).
Old 08-16-2016, 04:17 PM
  #132  
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i keep hearing and seeing this 900 number for new pilots from some promotion.
now what i see when i read the AMA minutes is:
" Only 903 cards activated for redemption in Best Buy stores and of those, only 285 have been activated with AMA."
now that seems to say, that of 903 eligible for free membership cards given out, only 285 have actually redeemed them for a membership.
so, does someone have a more current statement from the AMA as to how many more have been redeemed since the council meeting where the above was presented?
just having the opportunity for a free membership does not actually make one a member before doing the required paperwork and such.
Old 08-16-2016, 04:21 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by mongo
i keep hearing and seeing this 900 number for new pilots from some promotion.
now what i see when i read the AMA minutes is:
" Only 903 cards activated for redemption in Best Buy stores and of those, only 285 have been activated with AMA."
now that seems to say, that of 903 eligible for free membership cards given out, only 285 have actually redeemed them for a membership.
so, does someone have a more current statement from the AMA as to how many more have been redeemed since the council meeting where the above was presented?
just having the opportunity for a free membership does not actually make one a member before doing the required paperwork and such.
oh mongo, there you go with your "fact and logic" again.
Old 08-16-2016, 04:24 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by mr_matt
oh mongo, there you go with your "fact and logic" again.
More factual than logical, but A for effort! So who is your man? Tinao?
Old 08-16-2016, 04:30 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by mongo
i keep hearing and seeing this 900 number for new pilots from some promotion.
now what i see when i read the AMA minutes is:
" Only 903 cards activated for redemption in Best Buy stores and of those, only 285 have been activated with AMA."
now that seems to say, that of 903 eligible for free membership cards given out, only 285 have actually redeemed them for a membership.
so, does someone have a more current statement from the AMA as to how many more have been redeemed since the council meeting where the above was presented?
just having the opportunity for a free membership does not actually make one a member before doing the required paperwork and such.
That sounds like the right set of numbers, the last ones I recall were right from the EC meeting notes, in Jan or Feb? So about a third redeemed. That could be why the folks at the AMA felt it wasn't as successful as they had hoped for. Looking forward to seeing what they might be up to at this point.
Old 08-16-2016, 05:13 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by mongo
i keep hearing and seeing this 900 number for new pilots from some promotion.
now what i see when i read the AMA minutes is:
" Only 903 cards activated for redemption in Best Buy stores and of those, only 285 have been activated with AMA."
now that seems to say, that of 903 eligible for free membership cards given out, only 285 have actually redeemed them for a membership.
so, does someone have a more current statement from the AMA as to how many more have been redeemed since the council meeting where the above was presented?
just having the opportunity for a free membership does not actually make one a member before doing the required paperwork and such.
No if they told you they would have to kill you. Wonder if we ever had to give FREE memberships ( although not really FREE) to "new" technology in the past to get them to become members? Oh yea that would be a NO.
Lets see what they come up with for this Christmas anyone care to guess?

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 08-16-2016 at 05:15 PM.
Old 08-16-2016, 05:29 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
No if they told you they would have to kill you. Wonder if we ever had to give FREE memberships ( although not really FREE) to "new" technology in the past to get them to become members? Oh yea that would be a NO.
Lets see what they come up with for this Christmas anyone care to guess?

Mike
Do you have some new information the rest of us don't, you keep talking about this "free" membership as if the AMA gave it away. Are you just making this up?
Old 08-16-2016, 06:22 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by mr_matt
oh mongo, there you go with your "fact and logic" again.
Good think I went back and rechecked those numbers, something seemed off. EC meeting notes

Best Buy accounts for 692 new members since December and 821 overall with renewals; revenue from Best Buy program $62,092. New members from the following sites: 21-AMAGOV, 54-Facebook/Facebook CTA; 146-MA print; 70-Flitetest; 2,521 from Google advertising (cost of acquisition is around $6/member). The program Nance developed to allow renewing members to opt in, keeping the dues the same had a very positive impact in retaining our members.
Old 08-16-2016, 06:32 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
No if they told you they would have to kill you. Wonder if we ever had to give FREE memberships ( although not really FREE) to "new" technology in the past to get them to become members? Oh yea that would be a NO.
Lets see what they come up with for this Christmas anyone care to guess?

Mike
Perhaps someone will quote this so you can help us understand how so called FREE memberships as you call them generate $62,092.00 in revenue for the AMA? Where does this blatantly wrong information keep coming from?

FREE means 0
$62,092.00 doesn't sound so free.

More interesting info...fun fact: That "rag" magazine some call Model Aviation brought in 146 members...to the tune of about $11,000.
Old 08-16-2016, 07:44 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
That could be why the folks at the AMA felt it wasn't as successful as they had hoped for.
Or MAYBE they were hoping that they might get 30% of the one million drones that were supposed to be sold over the holidays.

Astro
Old 08-16-2016, 07:48 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by porcia83

More interesting info...fun fact: That "rag" magazine some call Model Aviation brought in 146 members...to the tune of about $11,000.
So the magazine loses a million, but generates $11,000.00 in new member dues........I'm no rocket scientist and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it would seem that it still leaves a lot of red in the books....

Astro
Old 08-16-2016, 08:22 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by astrohog
Or MAYBE they were hoping that they might get 30% of the one million drones that were supposed to be sold over the holidays.

Astro
Sure, that seems like a good number, perhaps a lofty goal. Is that a problem though? I can't understand why looking for additional members is so stigmatized here. Isn't that a good thing? Of course we don't know what the true number of drone sales were, or if all of them would be subject to registration or the need/want for an AMA membership.

But again, why is it wrong to seek new membership? They also used Facebook, as well as Google advertising (at cost of 6.00 per new membership), Seems like the are casting a wide net for all types of new members, is this bad?
Old 08-16-2016, 08:38 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by astrohog
So the magazine loses a million, but generates $11,000.00 in new member dues........I'm no rocket scientist and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it would seem that it still leaves a lot of red in the books....

Astro
So no comment on the "FREE" memberships that seemed to generate over $62,000 in dues?

Like I've said already, I'll wait to hear from the IRS audit, and our EC, and actual folks who are qualified to comment on the solvency of the magazine, like say, the CFO rather than a poster or two who think they've stumbled onto a smoking gun figure.

Have you really bought into the latest hot button issue hook line and sinker? You've reviewed the document in it's entirety and are able to apply all applicable accounting principles to arrive at the correct conclusion?
Old 08-16-2016, 09:50 PM
  #144  
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free to the new member.
the selling company paid an amount to the AMA to be able to offer the "free" memberships to their buyers.
still to be seen how many of that 812 will actually pay to renew when their "free" year runs out.
what was the date of the meeting minutes you found those numbers in?
Old 08-16-2016, 10:21 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by mongo
free to the new member.
the selling company paid an amount to the AMA to be able to offer the "free" memberships to their buyers.
still to be seen how many of that 812 will actually pay to renew when their "free" year runs out.
what was the date of the meeting minutes you found those numbers in?
Yes, free to the new members, but not without costs to someone.

Mike's comments were clearly made with the assumption that the AMA "gave" these memberships away for free, something that was just patently false. Sure, it' remains to be seen how many of them stay on. The figures however absolutely debunk the lies and/or misinformation that nobody with MR or Drones have joined the AMA. Chances are the numbers are even higher now, not only because of the BB program, but also just from new MR pilots. Either way, still a smaller percentage than the AMA was probably hoping for.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecminutes.aspx

Here is a link to the meeting notes.
Old 08-16-2016, 10:25 PM
  #146  
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never mind on the date for your quote. found it finally.
also found this, which might help whoever it was that was wanting to know some membership breakdown stats.
yesterday is 15 apr 16 at the time these minutes were recorded.

Membership as of yesterday – New Open/Adult memberships up 4,478, renewals were down 2,102. Overall Open/Adult memberships up 2.7% to 70,678 year to date. Senior, Park Pilot, and Youth memberships were all up. Memberships are up 10,895 to 178,863 for a growth of almost 6.5% over this time last year.

appears that less than 71,000 members are paying full price for membership, and the remaining 100,000 thousand are reduced cost for seniors and parkies and with about 50,000 free youth.
kinda wondering if that 71,000 includes the life memberships that are actually no revenue memberships.
Old 08-16-2016, 10:31 PM
  #147  
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even if you set the figure of non toy grade drone/mr users at 100,000, to get only 900 or so of them to join up with the AMA, can be seen as damned close to none. and just from my personal experience, 100,000 is a way low number to try and believe.
Old 08-16-2016, 10:55 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by mongo
even if you set the figure of non toy grade drone/mr users at 100,000, to get only 900 or so of them to join up with the AMA, can be seen as damned close to none. and just from my personal experience, 100,000 is a way low number to try and believe.
Didn't I warn you about that "fact and logic" already?
Old 08-16-2016, 11:36 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by mr_matt
Didn't I warn you about that "fact and logic" already?
there is a reason why most folk call me mongo...
Old 08-17-2016, 02:55 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by mongo
never mind on the date for your quote. found it finally.
also found this, which might help whoever it was that was wanting to know some membership breakdown stats.
yesterday is 15 apr 16 at the time these minutes were recorded.

Membership as of yesterday – New Open/Adult memberships up 4,478, renewals were down 2,102. Overall Open/Adult memberships up 2.7% to 70,678 year to date. Senior, Park Pilot, and Youth memberships were all up. Memberships are up 10,895 to 178,863 for a growth of almost 6.5% over this time last year.

appears that less than 71,000 members are paying full price for membership, and the remaining 100,000 thousand are reduced cost for seniors and parkies and with about 50,000 free youth.
kinda wondering if that 71,000 includes the life memberships that are actually no revenue memberships.
Originally Posted by mongo
even if you set the figure of non toy grade drone/mr users at 100,000, to get only 900 or so of them to join up with the AMA, can be seen as damned close to none. and just from my personal experience, 100,000 is a way low number to try and believe.
Right, so go with 10,000, or perhaps 5.000 as a number, it sounds even worse right? LoL. Even when we get "facts and logic" that the membership numbers are on an upswing, folks will "believe" what they want. Heck, there's even members here that think because they build turbines worth six figures (I think they include the comma in that) they have far more credibility and "skin" in the game than those that fly foamies. I think it might have even been the guy enamored with facts and logic who said he wishes he could just show up at a field and fly those foamies, alas, tis not to be. Perhaps those elite of the elite, the big jet jocks are really the ones propping up the AMA?

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