astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

WAIT.....the 2014 final report is not in yet????

Sport_Pilot

I don't think that the revenue for subscriptions for the magazine is something you can put up against the cost. The amount is less than $1 per member. So it looks like a loss. I believe that is likely extra magazines sold to newsstands or extra copies ordered by members. Maybe clubs order one to keep in the club lodge er lounge. If you think about it the cost is a little over 10 bucks a member, and in line with most newsstand prices these days, many are $15 and more for modeling mags.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Yup, it very much might be a loss, but I'd rather have a full explanation given to me by an expert or a group of experts rather than one or two people online who have discovered something that was available for years, and want to use one piece of data to manufacture yet another in a long line of outrages. Losses happen, membership goes up and down, etc etc. If I read another comment earlier, the loss is further evidence that the leadership at the AMA needs to CHANGE! Except it already is LOL....if I'm not mistaken there are 4 people who are running for the CHANGE agent's position. Wonder if Tiano or Tougas would be held to these amazingly exacting standards. We're already seeing one person ask questions of a candidate and not really getting any specific answers. I guess everything will be o/k when they take over (lol, they won't) . CHANGE!

Sport_Pilot

Exactly how do you show a profit for the magazine when it is given to each member at no additional cost? The financial statements only show revenue, expenditures, assets, and liabilities. There is no revenue for the magazine, that which is shown is likely for additional subscription over and above what each member gets. So the rest is expenditures with no revenue.

A more accurate depiction would be how the magazine did against its budget. Budgets are not shown on the financial reports.

rcmiket

I'm inclined to believe that the magazine does indeed lose money. This argument has been going on for years maybe it's time for a change to reduce any loses. Changes can and should be made.now
Here's a very important reason to look at this issue. From the CFO of the AMA.

"'.Sessions noted economic indicators report the chances of a recession in 2017/2018 are increased dramatically. AMA is a discretionary hobby and our dues will be impacted by a recession"'

Mike

rcmiket

Give me a break the cost of the magazine is factored into amount charged to members as dues. Nobody "gives" anything to anyone. Everything from the membership cards to the stickers they include are factored in the overall membership cost.

Mike.

Sport_Pilot

How much of our dues is for the magazine. MAN is $25 a year. For 150,000 members that would be $3,750,000. So if they simply said that $25 of our dues was for the mag so that would mean it makes more than 100% profit. Instead it is free so it is shown at a loss of about $11 per member.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

CHANGE !!!

Harville was an agent of change wasn't he? What's changed under his watch? Isn't he aware of what's going on at the AMA? Should he be out now? How about the other DVPs.

If it's change you want...that's what you're getting with the upcoming election.

CHANGE is such a naïve battlecry sometimes.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

What were you saying earlier about good news being bad, bad news good? Everything they say is disbelieved, mocked, and second guessed but suddenly their economic projections are "the word". Lol. I missed the part where the others weighed in on the AMAs membership projections....crickets.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Ever stop to think the loss might have been structured intentionally, to say take advantage of say....taxes?

franklin_m

As I dig into the lobbying issue, specifically what must be counted as an expenditure, it is appearing to me there's a number of things the AMA has been doing that would be considered "Direct Lobbying," and thus salaries, overhead, travel costs, admin time, etc. in support of these efforts would need to be included in the lobbying money reported to the IRS. That would include efforts at Federal, State, and Local levels by anyone not acting as an individual.

On the topic of whether someone is acting as an individual or agent of the organization, the NonProfitQuarterly.org article (below) has a good section describing how things as subtle as using the organizations' name, logo, or letterhead and how that can affect whether someone is acting as an individual or as an agent of the organization (even unpaid).

Give that the IRS action for violation of this rule could include revocation of tax exempt status, one hopes that the HQ has their "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed with respect to record keeping and reporting.


IRS Rules & Form Completion Instructions: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/lobbying

Detailed Article on 501c3 Lobbying w/ Definitions: https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2000/...FU5bhgodNAoEog

Calculating Lobbying Expenses (example): http://conservationtools.org/guides/...-organizations

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Yes...I'm sure most of us "hope that's the case".

franklin_m

My district VP indicated the difference between the $1,000,000 they've told us they've spent vs. the $258K they've told the IRS "doesn’t include staff travel, staff salaries and other legal expense incurred as a result of our advocacy efforts."

My read of the above posted links leads me to believe much of these should have been included. Furthermore, many efforts at the district level should have been included, as I have to believe they were adorned in AMA logo'd shirts, or used AMA in their letters....none of those would be considered acting as individuals (at least based on the NonProfitQuarterly.org article).

Sport_Pilot

Cost is very low due to most of the work being done by unpaid volunteers. They may have been paid for travel though.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Don't forget the adorned shirts! Woven with gold thread no doubt. Those midsized car rentals and fancy dinners at chili's too. And lapel pins. #swag #graft

franklin_m

I think you're right that unpaid volunteers don't incur costs beyond travel, but eight years of that type of action at federal, state, and local levels could add up to a nice sum. Add to that HQ staff salaries (all or in part based on logs of time spent), plus travel, expenses, allocated overhead, etc. and you could have a nice sum of money that was under reported - for years.

Like I said, given this could mean loss of tax exempt status, let's hope they have good records and have dotted their "i's" and crossed their "t's".

franklin_m

You can joke all you like. But that doesn't diminish the potential impact of what is appearing to me like under-reporting of lobbying expenditures.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Lots of "could be might be I think it looks like it's not good for the past 8 years IRS issues underreporting or over reporting millions in losses adorned shirts" supposition there. You have your view, I have mine that says this is just more of the samo samo.

The good news though is that CHANGE has been called for and is on the way. As your questions are being answered though have you noticed how little actual power the president has, or is perceived to have. So well have a new president this year, but if something really is going on who else needs to go? The whole EC? Clean slate?

franklin_m

Then you surely won't mind if I pursue the issue through channels?


I for one could welcome a bit of a shakeup at the top. From time to time, it's good to dump even a little chlorine in the gene pool.

rcmiket

It's good for any organization. You don't have to look to far to see that many quit local clubs due to the same kinda stuff at the top.

Mike

TimJ

Not when the Chlorine will mistakenly kill the whole pool.

Without the AMA pushing what they did, we wouldn't be allowed to fly model aircraft at all anymore. Think before you act and have 180,000 plus members knocking at your door asking W.T.F.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Was there ever any doubt you were already doing so? Just as you previously indicated you we're going to use your contacts and political connections to make life difficult for the AMA, and that you would be working to collect injury and loss information to feed to personal injury attorney ( something nobody other than a few thought odd), I have not a single doubt that you would take the time, effort, and energy to question spending on lapel pins, depreciation on copy machines, and the cost of printing a magazine. Moral support provided by the few, no doubt this endeavor is wrapped up in a sense of duty, and an obligation to get to the bottom of it. It's your time, you get to choose how it's spent.

But go forward as you see fit, it's completely within your right as a citizen and a member of the AMA. Kudos to you if you uncover fraud waste or abuse. I have to guess however that these efforts will have the same results as all of the others, and your previous ones have had.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

This sounds oddly like a blame game. Should the dvp and avps in district 8 be let go because they didn't know and/or promote model aviation day in the district? Whatever happened to personal responsibility. People join and then quit clubs for a number of reasons one of which is the way they're treated by fellow members

franklin_m

That sure sounds like a personal threat.

franklin_m

"The IRS lobbying restrictions, on the other hand, arose out of Congress' concern that since 501(c)(3) public charities are in effect receiving a public subsidy through their tax exemption and their ability to offer tax-deductible contributions, they should have limits on their political activities, including lobbying [emphasis added]." - https://apps.americanbar.org/buslaw/...04/mehta.shtml

The EC member admitted that the number reported to the IRS "doesn’t include staff travel, staff salaries and other legal expense incurred as a result of our advocacy efforts."

Everything I've read indicates that many of these (and more) should have been included.

Rather than lament a rank and file member from noting this possible problem, I'd think a Leader Member would be championing any effort to ensure full and complete compliance with law.