astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

All this talk about $$. I thought it was about a hobby? I thought we were a non-profit? Having happy, active members who want to renew every year is paramount to the AMA's growth and success as an organization. It means the members see value in their membership. PAYING to attract members for the sake of dues? That will only end in an apathetic membership (kinda what our organization is experiencing right now). Further evidence that what we really need is change!

As a long-time, active, dues-paying member, it is disappointing to know that I pay full dues, while the AMA essentially subsidizes joe droners' dues to the tune of 6$ a pop because he was recruited through Google and social media. Was the recent dues increase REALLY so the AMA could go out and PAY for more members?

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Talk of money, lol. Have we already forgotten the tidal wave of angst the teeth gnashing and outright moral outrage at the small dues increase the AMA took after 13 years of keeping the same dues? Some people in this hobby are absolutely obsessed with the money they spend on stuff, well, dues at least, and what the AMA spends on stuff. Of course if they pop $300.00 for the new plane, their 24th or so, then it's o/k.

Paying to attract members for the sake of dues, and that leads to apathetic membership? I guess thousands of years of marketing have been wrong all along. McDonalds no longer needs to let us know how MMM MMM MMM, we're loving it. And Chevy no longer needs to advertise to prior, current, or potential future customers. And that local gym in your hometown, guess they can save money on advertising too. None of those places want apathetic customers right?

AMA has been advertising for membership for how long now? You want to focus on the apathetic nature of the membership now, and tie that in somehow to advertising? The only change we need is an end to that kind of logic.

It's also disappointing to me that someone who has been an longtime, dues paying members of the AMA would make such an erroneous and perhaps intentional generalization that the $6.00 "pop" goes to subsidize "joe droner" joining the AMA. Normally I'd be at a loss to explain where that sort of comment would come from, but it comes from the same place that the other anti-drone comments come from, a lack of knowledge.

Facts, not fiction:

Google advertising continues to lead the way with a total of 10,463 members at an acquisition cost of $6.37/each.

Must have missed the part where it said "Joe Droner", or any droner, or any multi rotor pilot. It said member. That could be a future kit builder, or scale guy, or even a six figure turbine builder who has more invested in the hobby than those foamy guys.

More facts: $10,463 new members "cost" 6.37, so cost equal $66,649.31. Membership dues (let's just round of to $50.00 each). So 10,463 members at 50 per, equals $523,150.00.

Ever here the term it takes money to make money? Do you, or any of the current slate of candidates have a better, cheaper, and proven plan to get $10,463 members next year? Or even 1,046 members?

Have you ever been involved in marketing? Sales? Advertising? Membership drives at a national, or heck, even local level, like say at a club? Are you aware of the power of Google and Social Media? Some of the "traditional" folks in this hobby seem to be missing the big picture in this regard, but should really get up to speed on it. An extremely powerful tool.

Incidentally, I've yet to see specific plans to bring in new membership, or even keep it's current membership numbers from Tougas or Tiano....are they not aware that this is a potential problem, or do they just not have a plan to deal it?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You might be right regarding the need for some change, here's some further evidence of that from the notes:

"...In a brief discussion of a recent incident involving a jet, it was revealed that individuals were not willing to step up to address the concerns. As an AMA SIG, JPO is the watchdog for this community. AMA is dependent upon members to police each other and the community should be willing to step up and demand pilots at these events fly safely. Contest Directors need to ensure that pilots hold the proper credentials to fly. This goes for all disciplines across the board..."

Still intrigued by that note. Obviously more to it, perhaps some more specifics would have been nice. "individuals were not willing to step up to concerns", " members to police each other and the community should be willing to step up and demand pilots at these events fly safely"...and finally,..."..Contest Directors need to ensure that pilots hold the proper credentials to fly..."

The only jet crash I recall being discussed recently, that would rise to the level of needing to be discussed might be one where the pilot lost control of his jet, crashed into his safety barrier and the jet started "spewing jet fuel like a blowtorch" I believe was the quote. Two folks with second degree burns? Could be another event too though, would be interesting to know what that was all about, all of it. Perhaps a change in safety and attitudes about safety are needed, at least at those type of giant scale/turbine events.

Sport_Pilot

That makes no sense. We are at 99% and the year is not over. How can revenues be down?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Since you added that after the fact, I believe the answer to be no. Again, some basic understanding of marketing and economics, as well as reading the EC meeting notes that are posted within minutes of being released by the AMA would assist in coming up with an answer. Or at least the best possible answer.

Has your salary stayed the same for 13 years? Gas prices? Taxes? Cost of living? Cost of anything really? College costs increased at all in 13 years? Insurance rates? Real estate? Good Humor's Toasted Almond?

If the answer is yet to any of those, one might be able to make the connection that the increase in dues might have been needed after not being touched for 13 years. Just a guess.

Sport_Pilot

Then again how many free memberships paid by BB this coming Christmass? Even if small amount renew then that is a plus, especially if a number take up the offer each year. Keep spitting in the wind!.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

New math, common core math, or what I think is a new trend, AMA math. No such thing as good numbers.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Or perhaps we should let the proper people that have first-hand knowledge of these events handle it, lest the uninformed armchair quarterbacks start gathering the lynch mob?

Or perhaps the CD of that event should lose his CD status as he wasn't able to run the event according to its sanction? Pretty sure it is the CD's responsibility to assure that proper rules and protocol are followed. Probably not a flaw in the rules that have proven to be very effective for decades!

Let's not use fuzzy logic to jump to conclusions (especially without any details!!) that lead to knee-jerk reactions.

Astro

Sport_Pilot

BB paid for the membership. But so what, how about paying for ads to get new members, like most corporations do and make profits on that!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Nope, the uninformed armchair quarterbacks are busy in a huddle trying to explain how 700 new members are $70,000 to the AMA is a bad thing, and was somehow "free". I'm at a loss on that one but.....

You do bring up a good point on the CD though. Keep that in in the forefront of your mind as you think about prior events involving CD's and promoters that have come back after the fact to deny any responsibility for accidents. I'm pretty sure that has happened, here even. Several times. As someone else has often said, that's a trend. A pattern and practice if you will.

It would be nice of course to have specifics. Not available at this time, but there are enough references to understand they are talking about a specific event, a specific situation, and specific people involved. I'd wager a bet that the EC decided to deal with the issue this way publicly, as if to send a message to those involved as well as others.....to shape up.

Are you a CD by any chance? I've said in the past that there is only so much a CD can do to prevent accidents from happening. I didn't think the CD should immediately, or knee jerkey like, be held responsible for everything that goes down. BUT...if it's a repeated opportunity, or the opportunity was there ahead of time and they refuse to accept any responsibility, well that's a different story right?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I do believe folks think the AMA "gave" those memberships away to attract the joe droners, not much you can say will dissuade them from that, as will be the case for advertising for new customers. That appears to result in apathy when those folks voluntarily pay money to become members.

Sport_Pilot

I thought that they would not step up? If they don't step up perhaps no AMA sanctioned jet events?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Fitch reported on membership numbers as of July 11, 2016. Overall open/adult membership are up to 76,450, of which 15,974 are new members. Seniors are up 471 members to 49,890; Park Pilot members are up 495 to 2,326; Youth members up 6,876 to 54,668 (35-40% of youth memberships are attributed to our relationship with EAA). Overall memberships are up 9,089 to 188,862 or 5% over this time last year. Best Buy program accounts for 987 new members since December. New members from trackable print and digital media advertising are 5,900; Google advertising continues to lead the way with a total of 10,463 members at an acquisition cost of $6.37/each.

Membership numbers – Renewal rate is running about 99% of last year which is significant since there was a dues increase. New memberships are trending up about 20%; overall paid memberships are up about 2% for the year

If I'm not mistaken every one of those positive trends were noted as negatives by a select few. The potential looming 2017/2018 economic times were highlighted though, but no other suggestions from anyone on how they would do anything different. Just complaints about increases in membership renewal rates, increases in income, increases in overall membership numbers. Not sure what could ever be considered positive results anymore.

Sport_Pilot

I think maybe these people think we could get more members if we became a secret organization. Maybe build lodges at our flying sites and have secret initiations. It would make so many curious enough to join.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

yuuup...that's exactly what they said, they just chose to leaves names out of it.

JPO Presentation

Bob Klenke, JPO President and Jim McEwen, JPO Executive VP were introduced. They reported to the Executive Council what they have been doing, what the JPO is about and their future plans. It was noted that for the past couple of years JPO had been relatively inactive but they are getting revamped and working to increase membership and participation.

Interesting to note this SIG has been inactive for the past couple of years. But hey, they are working on increasing membership. I can't wait to see how they do that, I sure hope they don't plan on using BB or god forbid Google or the interwebs to do that. That's not good!

More interesting info:

Discussion included the changes to the turbine thrust rules; updating the web site; their ability of electronic membership; and working with I. Maine to send out a survey via Survey Monkey (of the 1,400 people that received the email they received just over 200 responses). They reviewed the JPO mission, topics for their publication Contrails and the activity of the community. Future plans are to build their membership; maintain the turbine rules, update LTMA (Large Turbine Model Aircraft) rules and rules compliance by turbine and LTMA holders working with AMA. As an AMA SIG (Special Interest Group) they will work closer with SIG chairman R. Cameron.

Sure seems like an extremely low response rate from members of this type of highly specialized and expensive aircraft. Only about 200 responded?

But the rest of it:

In a brief discussion of a recent incident involving a jet, it was revealed that individuals were not willing to step up to address the concerns. As an AMA SIG, JPO is the watchdog for this community. AMA is dependent upon members to police each other and the community should be willing to step up and demand pilots at these events fly safely. Contest Directors need to ensure that pilots hold the proper credentials to fly. This goes for all disciplines across the board. Mathewson noted that in 2008/2009 AMA was engaged with the FAA when large model aircraft and turbines were on the cutting block. Due to R. Hanson’s efforts and our Turbine Waiver Program we were able to convince the FAA that those models could be flown safely and responsibly in the airspace. He feels we are literally one major incident away from losing that privilege. Klenke reported he knows there is a problem and they want to be part of the solution but they need to address it without driving away members. McEwen stated they need to communicate and educate members more effectively. AMA is willing to help JPO but there must be communication between the two organizations. Klenke stated they will work on the rules compliance issue. The President thanked Klenke and McEwen for their update.

My emphasis added. So continued problems, folks not stepping up to the plate to deal with the issues, not taking responsibility, and it sure sounds like folks were flying without proper waivers. Something the CD is responsible for I would imagine. But "they will work on the rules compliance issue". So there is an issue. Nothing knee jerk about that.

The more I read that the more the issues jump out at me. And even more amazing, that piece of the EC report wasn't discussed here as an issue, amazing!

Did I read that right...Hanson was instrumental in convincing the FAA these aircraft were safe to fly....but feels we are one incident away from losing that. The president of this SIG knows there is a problem and wants to deal with it, but doesn't want to lose members.

My god, the irony with this one is rich and thick. Are these not "traditional" aircraft were talking about here. But this SIG knows they have some safety and compliance issues and are going to try to deal with it. Why hasn't anyone else who is normally concerned with safety brought this up as a HUGE issue. Now I'm beginning to wonder.

Perhaps this is the group of folks the AMA needs to take a strong stand on and craft very specific and stringent rules to separate US, from THEM?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Wait, how did you find out about our club's private lodge? Can't access without special handshake, so there.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Yup. People not following the rules. No reason to change the rules, just take appropriate action on the folks who choose not to follow them. Seems pretty simple.

I'm still not clear (due to lack of details) WHO wasn't willing to step up. Was it the person who crashed, or the CD of the event? Doesn't really matter I guess. If it was the operator that did not follow the rules, remove his turbine waiver, problem solved. If it was the CD, remove his CD status, problem solved.

There is a reason the FAA recognizes the AMA as a CBO. The AMA has a very effective set of rules and guidelines in place that have been very effective for decades.

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Really? By my math that is a 14% response rate, more than DOUBLE the percentage of AMA members who vote in AMA elections.

Or is that what you call, "new" math and "common core math"?

Astro

Sport_Pilot

But you looked silly with that strange lodge hat with propeller, wings, and tail!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

That example reminds me of the attempt to bring a slavery comparison into a discussion. Horribly tone deaf and missing the mark.

This is a SIG with the highest echelon of membership isn't it?. I believe a member here said these folks are the best of the best, the ones with the most skin in the game because of how expensive their planes are, rather than us mere folks who fly foamies. All the time spent building them and paying for them, and they take the time to join a SIG but don't respond to surveys? Reminds me of the folks that bitterly complain about a certain organization that rhymes with A OKAY but do nothing to get involved.

Speaking of math, I notice you haven't commented on Mike's continued reference to the "Free" memberships. Do you agree with his demonstrably false conclusion? Do you think it was a good think that the AMA get 700 new members and 70,000 in revenue at no cost to them? That's something for the "win" column right?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

And that dance...don't forget the dance.

Ugh..first rule of secret lodge club......we don't talk about secret lodge club!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Agree overall. But as folks are fond of saying here though, perhaps it's time to look at the those rules. If the rules at present don't have enough teeth in them to deal with behavioral/operational issues, perhaps something more aggressive could be done. I think the report was intentionally vague on names, and I'm pretty sure I know the reason why. But ya, if someone keeps doing something they should be doing, and has been advised of that already, buh bye!

rcmiket

I keep hearing about all this growth but I find it interesting that with all these "new members" just were are they? Take a look around your club field you see any?

Mike.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

So I guess the premise here is that since you can't see new members, there must not be any? Are you saying you doubt the honesty of these numbers? If so, it looks like you're the only one.

That's an interesting observation. I guess you're not seeing anyone new around your club? Perhaps if the club held a membership drive while also celebrating Model Aviation Day you would have increased membership. That's just one way of increasing membership, there are lot's of other ways to increase membership. At my club, we've gone from 125 members to 214 in 4 years. I'd call that growth. If you want suggestions on how to grow your membership drop me a PM, I'll be happy to give you some.

Sport_Pilot

Ok, that will be easy. Too embarrassing!