porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I guess an argument could be made that's the case, but more details would be needed to make that determination. First, are the pilots being paid, or is there association being paid for the rights to broadcast. If the pilots get no financial benefit, I don't see how it could be. If the AMA was suddenly paid by a network to broadcast the NATS, I doubt the participants would find themselves categorized as engaging in commercial activities.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I think there is more involved than just money that draws the attention of the FAA, but they will certainly weigh in on the issue, but I doubt it's anytime soon. I think they have more pressing issues on their plate at this point. It might even take someone like Pirker to raise the issue so that it gets clarified. In the instant case though, I doubt the national organization getting money for viewing rights (if money was even exchanged for the rights) would qualify. For all we know they may have given away the rights for nothing, if for no other reason than to generate interest and "buzz" for the events. Not a terribly bad marketing strategy.

rcmiket

. I was reading a recap of Joe Nall 2016 in Fly RC. 1723 registered pilots and over 14000 people made their way thru the gates this year and it wasn't covered by ESPN guess they missed the bus on that one.

Mike.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

What a coincidence, I think someone else mentioned Joe Nall in this thread, lol.

Ya....with crows that big at Nall...ya gotta wonder, why wasn't ESPN all over that? ESPN contracts out with a drone group that now admittedly holds events, just ones with no spectators, but misses out on arguably one of the most attended RC events in the world. Peculiar to say the least. Perhaps "traditional" events aren't as exiting or relevant as they once were? Might be one reason.

Thankfully FlyRC was there to get the scoop!

GSXR1000

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah, I think having 2 billionaire sport owners make a $12 million dollar investment had something to do with espn deuce signing up. Those owners must be thinking they have the next UFC, WSOP etc... on their hands... the ufc owners bought if for 200k and sold it for over 4 billion over the summer.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

LOL. Your fuzzy logic completely escapes reality!! 14,000 attendees, yet it is irrelevant? How? Because ESPN didn't televise it? There's some logic!!

Yep, right along with the 14,000 that actually attended and participated

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

UMMM......cash prizes=paid pilots. You think they are doing it for free?

Astro

rcmiket

No their doing it for "the love of the hobby".

Mike

rcmiket

Yet nobody got a cash prize for being there. Traditional model aviation is dying....................................
Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I think they are doing it because they enjoy doing it, the cash prizes is just a bonus. Why aren't you addressing the Clover Creek or Tuscon events, are those pilots commercial pilots. You and Mike won't answer that one.
Yes, I would agree. Nobody is making a living flying in competitions, that's for sure. Well....not in traditional modeling. That kid who won $250k in Dubai...well that's another story!


Well my question was a hypothetical one...but it certainly begs the question that you two don't want to address, probably because it would involved a disagreement. Nall is certainly the biggest, if not one of the biggest RC events in the world. It's been going on for how long? How long has competitive MR racing been going on, two or three? ESPN decided to broadcast those events.....not Nall, or the NATS, or Clover Creek, or Red Flag, etc etc.

I wouldn't take such a dim view on the traditional model aviation. It's still very solid. There is no doubt there's been a slow down there...lots of indicators of that. Who's still making kits again? Gosh, I can think of two! Big run on silk span and dope lately? Hows that control line popularity going? Even Tiano himself has noted a slow down in this area of flying, as a matter of fact he said it years ago. It's not uncommon for that to happen, stuff ebbs and flows. The same will happen with MR. But ya, the interest and involvement of MR is growing, and will continue to, spectators and all. No amount of abject denial will stop it. Meanwhile, I'll keep the DVR at the ready for the ESPN coverage of NALL. I do actually think they are missing the boat on that event. They would do well to at least do a story on that, as well as some of the major events, including the Jet ones.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

That is a good question. I do not have the answer (did you read my question above?) You are the one trying to divide the fixed-wing and MR events where this thread is concerned. Per the "new" UAS definition, there is no distinction between fixed and MR. What we are trying to establish is if sponsored pilots and pilots flying for prize $$ are now considered commercial or not. Do you know?

Nobody said anything about making a living at it, and is irrelevant. If one wins prize money at a contest, are they now, "professional"?


WRONG AGAIN! ESPN did not simply "decide" to broadcast those events, they were PAID to broadcast them. BIG difference.

Once again, I'll take the high road and not comment on the other meaningless babble you posted.

I am disappointed......I really believed you were going to make an effort to knock off your BS.

Astro

rcmiket

I caught that question about those events when you quoted "whats his name". Events ( such as the TOC) are invitational. Drone racing events for cash are not. That's the difference.
There are a bunch of other "traditional" events out there were pilots show for the hobby not the cash. The two he pointed out are the exception and not the norm.
I'd be happy to provide links on how to get "invited" and not just anyone can "play" if anyone would like.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

At least you acknowledge the two "exceptions". There are more of course, but you get the point. You're trying to split hairs about who shows up "for the hobby" versus who "shows up for cash". That's an impossible standard you're talking about there. Money is the trigger, not intent. Is there something wrong with showing up "for the hobby", and getting cash too?

The fact that one event might be "invitational", and one offers prize money and is not invitational is irrelevant. The trigger there is the money, that's all.."exceptions" or not, "invite" or not.

I doubt the FAA is going to get into a tizzy about it either way, more important fish to fry. Perhaps someone will make an issue of it and force their hand, sort of like what Pirker did. We can check in 4 or 5 years down the road and see where it's landed, pending appeal from either side.

rcmiket

What they ought to do is start a CBO for them. Let them fight with the government.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

They will have a CBO soon enough, I've mentioned it several times before, even last year when you could see my posts. They have done more in 2 years that those 14 signatories of the open letter to the AMA have done. Google "Drone Users Group", and take some time to read up on them. Knowledge is power. The NY chapter is pretty big, and very active. So ya, that day is coming, just a question of when.

But I have to ask, so what? What do you think will happen if they get their own CBO? Do you think that we'll go back in time and suddenly something will change? Out of sight, out of mind? Will the FAA suddenly do away with registration? Will the public no longer group "us with them". Will the AMA be all it was before? Nothing of substance is going to change, that ship set sail and is out of port.

TimJ

If discovery can figure out how to make a drama around people on fishing boats and get millions to watch, then the same could be done for r/c aviation. No one has taken the time to do it.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

LoL, ain't that the truth. All the worlds a stage. Who would have thought little kids at a dance school would be a drama scene either?

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

It would certainly be easier to distinguish the differences to the public if there were a separate CBO for separate activities, no? Not saying it would necessarily change public ignorance, that is a tall order!

I think the vast majority (and the facts) agree that nothing of any real substance HAS changed......YET. I don't have a crystal ball (or a magic 8 ball), so I cannot say if there will be any changes or not, but I do know that a committee has been assembled to discuss these things, so one can assume that there is a very real possibility and potential that we MAY see substantive change in the future. It is irresponsible to think that because nothing substantive HAS changed, that nothing WILL change.

Regards,

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Don't forget, RC robots had their chance on network TV. How did that end up? Where are they now? Just because a show is announced, does not assure it will be a big hit. I am thinking that us dorky, toy airplane-types just do not create the drama that the viewing public wants to see. I guess we will have to wait until this project comes to fruition to see if drone racing will draw the viewership, ratings and sponsorship $$ it needs to support itself. I personally don't see it. It is one of the reasons I believe our hobby doesn't ever seem to grow or decline by any significant numbers; the relatively small manufacturers that make a relatively small living from the relatively small modeling community are the ones who spend the advertising $$ to support the events in order to continue to see the spend from those they support, kinda grassroots and kinda like our local clubs, supported by those who use them, but not by any other real outside source due to there not being any kind of ROI that is needed for a large enterprise.

Regards,

astro

rcmiket

Unless they catch fire or explode this will be about much fun as watching paint dry.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Don't disagree to some point, yet there remains this strong desire by some folks--most of which claim to have "nothing against drones"- for some type of clear separation, as if that in and of itself will do anything positive for the hobby. I have yet to see any reasonable or probably outcome for that change to show some benefit to us. In my opinion they don't know what the outcome would be, they just want drones out. Many of these same folks don't even know the difference between a GPS guided drone, and a scratch built MR racer.

You are right in that none of us can predict with certainty what might happen in the future, but there doesn't seem to be any full explanation from anyone as to how separating or segmenting off one part of this hobby will benefit anyone. It's postured as if doing so will take us back to another time, or relieve us of Federal oversight, etc etc. Nobody has yet to explain how that will happen. Technology and the ability to fly BLOS has brought this issue to a head, and it's not all MR/Drone fault. Yes, there are fixed wing aircraft that are doing the same thing as MR/Drones, and have been for some time. My two cents.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

fwiw that first season or two of that show was fantastic. It was more about the building and operation and the teams, and then of course the battles. It was brought back recently and clearly has been tweaked by writers and producers (who needs a writer for that kind of show). Now I think there are 2-3 fights per episode, and more about trumped up rivalries. The ruined it the second time around. Thank god for DVRs.

GSXR1000

My Feedback: (7)

that little snipit preview they ran showing the obstacle course mr racing did look alright and it showed people reactions when there was a crash... So, it may be like watching boring nascar waiting for the big chain reaction crash were one mr/drone takes out another one etc.., like what happens at the start of Supercross race to the holeshot turn. usually one bike will go down and cause a chain reaction crash that takes out other riders...

flyinwalenda

My Feedback: (5)

I don't know what club(s) you frequent but with the ones in my area there are at least one or two with enough draaaaama to fill a weekly hour-long tv show! Plus they would be on par or better than the crap shows they have on now.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Reminds me of pylon racing events. Never want to have a crash, or miss one!