Serial Numbers on AMA Ballots ????
09-16-2016, 12:12 PM
#29
MY STATEMENT WAS THAT "ONE COULD" SAY,
not that i think that this is what they think..
now, sitting on the boards of, well more than 1, NFP, i can say, that we always have numerical ID on every ballot, it is actually very common. in the case of the ones i am involved with, that id is not attached to a name, just the card. the id is read by machine before anyone looks at the ballot to insure that it was a card sent out and not a good imitation. i do not know if this is how AMA handles their ballots. i do believe that this was the method used buy the out of house firm that handled our election stuff for years.
i well remember the election hoss won by write in, the ballots were sent to hq and counted in house. it was announced that someone else had won the spot, some days later a box of ballots was found that had not been counted and, guess what, the results were radicaly changed and they had to re announce for HC.
that election is the one that caused the out of house counting that lasted until a couple of years ago.
not that i think that this is what they think..
now, sitting on the boards of, well more than 1, NFP, i can say, that we always have numerical ID on every ballot, it is actually very common. in the case of the ones i am involved with, that id is not attached to a name, just the card. the id is read by machine before anyone looks at the ballot to insure that it was a card sent out and not a good imitation. i do not know if this is how AMA handles their ballots. i do believe that this was the method used buy the out of house firm that handled our election stuff for years.
i well remember the election hoss won by write in, the ballots were sent to hq and counted in house. it was announced that someone else had won the spot, some days later a box of ballots was found that had not been counted and, guess what, the results were radicaly changed and they had to re announce for HC.
that election is the one that caused the out of house counting that lasted until a couple of years ago.
And to answer Porcia's bet request , If I had to bet it is my belief that Rich Hanson will be elected . If you noticed my picture in post #1 I still hadn't voted yet , my two choices in the split decision being either Rich or a write in vote for Frank . And of course that's not a knock at the other two gents either , I really DO feel that any one of the four would make a fine AMA president and I really do wish we had such great candidates running for the US presidency . At times , the "take the bull by the horns" impression I get of Frank makes me want to vote for him . And then at other times I think that the "been there , done that , got the T shirt" experience of Rich in his FAA dealings makes him the best fit . And I go back & fourth (depending on mood) and so the ballot waits .......
09-18-2016, 05:43 AM
#30
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I could care less about them knowing who I voted for. Now if they would "select" ballots to be counted is another story. Ballots should not be counted in house and we piss away money on pins and such so it seems like a election would be worthy of a few bucks to keep it "clean".
Mike
Mike
So back to that whole sublet out the counting process to the professional thing again...any idea Mike how much that would cost? How long would it take the AMA to "recoup" that investment? How much would it cost to have the votes votes counted and ensure that the process was handled appropriately? What if only 10% of the members vote, that's upwards of 16,000 pieces of paper to handle right? I suspect you don't know what time would be involved in that, or the type of accounting firm who would specialize in that would cost, but it's significant. Think in the $10,000 range. Do you think that's a cost effective and appropriate use of our dues? I don't, but they didn't ask, but that's fine with me, they were elected to do a job and make decisions, not check in with the membership on every decision. Odd that this didn't seem to be an issue for you when the regional VP ballots were tallied up and the decisions made. Not a peep out of anyone for that matter. So the AMA decides to take another cost cutting measure, and get vilified for it. Seems customary.
A final thought, why again would there be this conspiracy to rig an election for a voluntary position that pays.....nothing?
09-18-2016, 06:06 AM
#31
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Thank You Mongo for this post , If the serial number is as normal as you say then I have no problem taking your word for it . I too remember the Hoss election debacle , and now knowing that they are counted in house and if you notice the tear off part that don't get sent in does have our name & AMA number on it , it would seem all too easy to have the computer that generated the ballots keep track of which person's ballot came back voting for which candidate . I do like your anti counterfeiting theory better than my "they are watching" theory , but I'll bet the temptation of looking into the computer to see who voted for who must be huge !
And to answer Porcia's bet request , If I had to bet it is my belief that Rich Hanson will be elected . If you noticed my picture in post #1 I still hadn't voted yet , my two choices in the split decision being either Rich or a write in vote for Frank . And of course that's not a knock at the other two gents either , I really DO feel that any one of the four would make a fine AMA president and I really do wish we had such great candidates running for the US presidency . At times , the "take the bull by the horns" impression I get of Frank makes me want to vote for him . And then at other times I think that the "been there , done that , got the T shirt" experience of Rich in his FAA dealings makes him the best fit . And I go back & fourth (depending on mood) and so the ballot waits .......
And to answer Porcia's bet request , If I had to bet it is my belief that Rich Hanson will be elected . If you noticed my picture in post #1 I still hadn't voted yet , my two choices in the split decision being either Rich or a write in vote for Frank . And of course that's not a knock at the other two gents either , I really DO feel that any one of the four would make a fine AMA president and I really do wish we had such great candidates running for the US presidency . At times , the "take the bull by the horns" impression I get of Frank makes me want to vote for him . And then at other times I think that the "been there , done that , got the T shirt" experience of Rich in his FAA dealings makes him the best fit . And I go back & fourth (depending on mood) and so the ballot waits .......
Still don't get the "they are watching" theory. Who is they, and why are they watching? For what purpose? To see who votes a guy into a position that pays nothing? Fame, power?
As for the bull by the horn comment, I cannot fathom how any reasonable person could read the most recent responses from Tiano is his thread and think this is a person who is capable of representing the interests of modelers. Outright threats, intimidation, name calling, and libel. Ive already seen the blind allegiance and ends justifies the means mentality based on some of his prior responses (not that he really answered most of the questions), but my god...if these last responses don't give us an idea of the person we are dealing with....wow...just wow.
09-18-2016, 08:46 AM
#32
Ok so I put up mine , I do believe Rich Hanson will be the AMA's next President . You called the bet , let's see your side , who do you think is gonna win ? As for the bull by the horn comment, I cannot fathom how any reasonable person could read the most recent responses from Tiano is his thread and think this is a person who is capable of representing the interests of modelers. Outright threats, intimidation, name calling, and libel. Ive already seen the blind allegiance and ends justifies the means mentality based on some of his prior responses (not that he really answered most of the questions), but my god...if these last responses don't give us an idea of the person we are dealing with....wow...just wow.
"In a world where Political Correctness run amok has caused any other than a smiley faced response to be considered modern blasphemy , I do not subscribe to the notion of judging Humans on being , Human ! Sure the guy told an off color joke and maybe he did growl at someone who pissed him off , who hasn't ? Really , I ask that in seriousness , WHO among us has never once let our temper get the better of us ? Now , what I judge is things like this ; I see a guy who you've called unfit over and over , a guy you've brought out every negative thing you could throw at him , and yet still he hasn't attacked YOU in the way you've attacked him . Look even at your response to me where you insinuate that I'm unreasonable because I think the gent's Moxie makes him a good candidate , I have not and will not cast any such negativity to you for whoever you choose so why would you feel the need to do so to me ? Especially when I have not yet declared Frank my choice over Rich ? The fact that Frank hasn't lashed out against your attacks on him in any of these threads is all the proof I need that he is capable of representing the AMA just fine , and just as I also said earlier I truly believe any one of the four gents would be a fine fit , each in their own way."
Last edited by init4fun; 09-18-2016 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Typos , of course .....
09-18-2016, 09:10 AM
#33
Analytically (not as an EC member, just a voting AMA member) I see a lot and I mean A LOT of social media saturation for Eric Williams and Frank Tiano.
As for Rich and LT they both have name recognition and LT comes from a big district and gets around quite a bit. It will be interesting to post analyze the results, what works better in an AMA election cycle, name recognition from the older, more traditional and less social media oriented members (my guess that these folks are likely to vote) or the more middle aged but more social media engaged crowd.
It should be fascinating. I have an idea in my head but I'd rather keep that to myself for now.
As for Rich and LT they both have name recognition and LT comes from a big district and gets around quite a bit. It will be interesting to post analyze the results, what works better in an AMA election cycle, name recognition from the older, more traditional and less social media oriented members (my guess that these folks are likely to vote) or the more middle aged but more social media engaged crowd.
It should be fascinating. I have an idea in my head but I'd rather keep that to myself for now.
09-18-2016, 10:33 AM
#34
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Analytically (not as an EC member, just a voting AMA member) I see a lot and I mean A LOT of social media saturation for Eric Williams and Frank Tiano.
As for Rich and LT they both have name recognition and LT comes from a big district and gets around quite a bit. It will be interesting to post analyze the results, what works better in an AMA election cycle, name recognition from the older, more traditional and less social media oriented members (my guess that these folks are likely to vote) or the more middle aged but more social media engaged crowd.
It should be fascinating. I have an idea in my head but I'd rather keep that to myself for now.
As for Rich and LT they both have name recognition and LT comes from a big district and gets around quite a bit. It will be interesting to post analyze the results, what works better in an AMA election cycle, name recognition from the older, more traditional and less social media oriented members (my guess that these folks are likely to vote) or the more middle aged but more social media engaged crowd.
It should be fascinating. I have an idea in my head but I'd rather keep that to myself for now.
Tiano certainly had some buzz going for a while, but it seems to have petered out (FG,GSN,and the two FB sites) from what I've seen. Personally, I wouldn't have really pushed the promotion issue that much, his constituents are going to vote for him no matter what, I doubt he has gained any votes from any social media or his time here that he didn't already have,, but that's just me. I think you're right on LT, he already has some name recognition and certainly has some huge territory under his district, the question is how far can he travel to hit all the clubs. The few comments I've seen here and elsewhere haven't been that positive from folks in his district. I would have thought that Eric and LT would capture their districts, but who knows, I doubt we'll see a breakdown of where the votes came from, just the total cast.
I did see Eric this weekend and mentioned I hadn't really seen anything social media wise about him, he did mention a FB page, not sure if I can see that without being an active member. He was pressing the flesh with 1000 or so folks at the NEAT fair, had some nice signs posted and also business cards being handed out. Was also surprising to see Bob Brown show up along with Rich Hanson and Dave Mathewson as well.
09-18-2016, 04:23 PM
#35
A kinda funny thing here is , if it weren't for Frank's past indiscretions being used as a battering ram against him , and to be able to see his well reasoned responses to the attacks , I may never have known he has the kind of strong willed spirit he has . But since he was attacked , and handled it with poise , I'd say Frank survived his "trial by fire" just fine , and even came out looking all the better for it . And so what was meant to pull him down has actually had the reverse effect , and has built him up instead , gotta love results like those
09-18-2016, 04:37 PM
#36
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Gee I guess I musta scared him away , Oh well , I think we all know how that bet would have turned out anyway .
A kinda funny thing here is , if it weren't for Frank's past indiscretions being used as a battering ram against him , and to be able to see his well reasoned responses to the attacks , I may never have known he has the kind of strong willed spirit he has . But since he was attacked , and handled it with poise , I'd say Frank survived his "trial by fire" just fine , and even came out looking all the better for it . And so what was meant to pull him down has actually had the reverse effect , and has built him up instead , gotta love results like those
A kinda funny thing here is , if it weren't for Frank's past indiscretions being used as a battering ram against him , and to be able to see his well reasoned responses to the attacks , I may never have known he has the kind of strong willed spirit he has . But since he was attacked , and handled it with poise , I'd say Frank survived his "trial by fire" just fine , and even came out looking all the better for it . And so what was meant to pull him down has actually had the reverse effect , and has built him up instead , gotta love results like those
09-18-2016, 06:12 PM
#39
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Gee I guess I musta scared him away , Oh well , I think we all know how that bet would have turned out anyway .
A kinda funny thing here is , if it weren't for Frank's past indiscretions being used as a battering ram against him , and to be able to see his well reasoned responses to the attacks , I may never have known he has the kind of strong willed spirit he has . But since he was attacked , and handled it with poise , I'd say Frank survived his "trial by fire" just fine , and even came out looking all the better for it . And so what was meant to pull him down has actually had the reverse effect , and has built him up instead , gotta love results like those
A kinda funny thing here is , if it weren't for Frank's past indiscretions being used as a battering ram against him , and to be able to see his well reasoned responses to the attacks , I may never have known he has the kind of strong willed spirit he has . But since he was attacked , and handled it with poise , I'd say Frank survived his "trial by fire" just fine , and even came out looking all the better for it . And so what was meant to pull him down has actually had the reverse effect , and has built him up instead , gotta love results like those
The winner bet is an easy one, lets make it interesting...let's do the results from first to last...1 through 4.
Now, as for Frank....well as Astro said recently, we must be looking at different things. I guess Frank is your man here, and you're providing a vigorous defense on his part, and spinning what is clearly a horrible outcome as a "good thing". Reminds me of all the Trump surrogates and how they spin one disaster after another. Alls fair in a political race I guess. I must have missed all the clear answers he gave, I saw one or two. I don't think he responded to Franklin's question on the magazine the way Franklin had expected. I saw a lot of vague answers and non answers (I don't know about this, it wouldn't be prudent to answer on that, and my favorite, I have two ways for the AMA to make money but won't tell. Again, reminds me of someone else running for election but won't reveal specific plans. But forget my questions, most of which he didn't answer and/or deny. I knew those would be attacked the second they were written, because they were honest ones that needed to be asked. Par for the course, I expected nothing less. But I see others who have dealt one on one with him asking questions too. Not just here either.
Perhaps we look at "poise" differently. If this is your idea of poise....well, I won't judge, I'll just say I look at things a bit differently:
"...I know exactly WHO you are and if you continue, I will post something about you..."
"...But You, keep up your crap, and you'll be one sorry dude!..."
"...One last question for you; Exactly how long have you been such a Loser? ..."
"...Someone who has no other goals in life perhaps? Unfortunately, the word "Loser" does comes to mind. ..."
Yes, those are remarkable results, for sure. A fantastic example for all of the youth members in the AMA? Perhaps you were just making a joke when you said you love those results. Or not.
So you still up for a bet? You can shoot me a PM or we can do it here.
09-18-2016, 06:29 PM
#41
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Ok so I put up mine , I do believe Rich Hanson will be the AMA's next President . You called the bet , let's see your side , who do you think is gonna win ? No "wow" needed at all here , we all make our judgements on folks based on criteria set by ourselves . Your judgement of Frank is well documented throughout these threads and your most certainly entitled to your opinion , for real . Now , since the criteria by which you , me , and several other thousands of voters will tend to vary from person to person , here's my reasoning , for all that's worth ;
"In a world where Political Correctness run amok has caused any other than a smiley faced response to be considered modern blasphemy , I do not subscribe to the notion of judging Humans on being , Human ! Sure the guy told an off color joke and maybe he did growl at someone who pissed him off , who hasn't ? Really , I ask that in seriousness , WHO among us has never once let our temper get the better of us ? Now , what I judge is things like this ; I see a guy who you've called unfit over and over , a guy you've brought out every negative thing you could throw at him , and yet still he hasn't attacked YOU in the way you've attacked him . Look even at your response to me where you insinuate that I'm unreasonable because I think the gent's Moxie makes him a good candidate , I have not and will not cast any such negativity to you for whoever you choose so why would you feel the need to do so to me ? Especially when I have not yet declared Frank my choice over Rich ? The fact that Frank hasn't lashed out against your attacks on him in any of these threads is all the proof I need that he is capable of representing the AMA just fine , and just as I also said earlier I truly believe any one of the four gents would be a fine fit , each in their own way."
Typos? It's a whole new post, completely changed and edited after the fact. Did you say you do not subscribe to the notion of judging humans on being humans? You deleted many many posts over the past two months.......c'mon now, let's be honest. I seem to recall a few thrown my way, and Chris's as well that were certainly judgemental. But neither you nor I nor Chris are running for the president. Obviously we've all done things in the past we wish we could change, or not to have done at all. For me, the issue isn't so much that those things happened in the past, it's the response to being asked about them that brings out the real character issues. You can say I attacked him all you want, I did no such thing. I asked him questions, and he had a chance to clear the air. The only thing he denied were the e-mails I posted. He didn't deny sending them, just said they were not all his words. Now, he said he found those e-mails some 7 years later...amazing....but wouldn't post them or clarify what was written. I doubt it's the truth based on the way he responded to the last questions, but took him at his word. It's amazing how you and others find a tough question as "attacking" him. I see it as trying to justify his abhorrent behavior, or as you call it, Moxie. As for not lashing out at me...suffice it to say I didn't post his e-mails (or his friends e-mails)to me. It would just cloud the issues all the more.
09-19-2016, 08:05 AM
#42
Yep , edited for typos only , there was nothing changed about the content of that post , there were misspellings corrected only . I don't know what you think I changed , but I truly changed nothing . Now about my deleted posts , yes sir I agreed 100% with Ken that lots of my past posts were way too confrontational and rather than try to sort through them all I went and mass deleted them so as to have no future problems with folks "post mining" my posts to turn in and try to get me censored with . It's called owning up to one's misdeeds and correcting them . As to Frank , I will not say my part of this again , just about every living person has one time or another lashed out in anger , right on up to and even including Jesus . Remember how in a fit of rage he overturned the money lender's tables in the Temple ? Yep , classic behaviour that you would deem unfit . Now , you will note here that I have not attacked you in the least , and yet you still seem to have some animosity in your posts to me , bringing up the whole Chris thing again ? Now , since I have explained all I intend to to you I will now post my list of how I think the results will pan out . No , this is not any kinds of bet because I do not wager on RCU as it is a violation of the site rules , so this is for grins and giggles only ;
#1 Rich Hanson
#2 Frank Tiano
#3 Lawrence Tougas
#4 Eric Williams
That's my picks in order how I think it will end up . Now , and I'm truly serious with this , I really DO think any one of the four will make a great AMA President and I hope that the ones that don't win continue to be the assets to the AMA that they have been all these years and hopefully help whomever the new President ends up being with each of their unique skills and viewpoints . To me there will be no "losers" in this election , just one guy with more votes and three other guys who are all equally deserving in their own ways .
#1 Rich Hanson
#2 Frank Tiano
#3 Lawrence Tougas
#4 Eric Williams
That's my picks in order how I think it will end up . Now , and I'm truly serious with this , I really DO think any one of the four will make a great AMA President and I hope that the ones that don't win continue to be the assets to the AMA that they have been all these years and hopefully help whomever the new President ends up being with each of their unique skills and viewpoints . To me there will be no "losers" in this election , just one guy with more votes and three other guys who are all equally deserving in their own ways .
09-19-2016, 09:29 AM
#43
One small correction is in order here , I have already stated in this thread that I am still undecided between Rich & Frank as to who I will ultimately vote for , and yet this is at least the second if not third time in various other threads you've suggested I will be voting for Frank . I believe if you reread post #29 to this thread it will spell it out plainly for you , that when I used the word "undecided" I meant just that . You mention Trump , negatively , a LOT . If I follow your example of assigning beliefs and positions to folks based on what you post I'd have to guess Hillary is your choice , huh ? How bout this , hows about we stop assigning positions to folks we really know nothing about and if you want to know how I see something , ASK ! I'll be more than happy to tell you that I'm undecided still about the AMA election and that I do think Mr. Hanson will be victorious , whether I vote for him or Mr. Tiano . To just come right out and ask will clear up all the speculation and assigning of beliefs , which never really does seem all that accurate once you look beyond whichever topic is being discussed and look at how the person thinks in general .
09-19-2016, 09:40 AM
#44
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So if Rich wins who takes his place as far as the " Academy’s Government and Regulatory Affairs Representative" ? Seems like if he's already has a relationship with those involved would that not be a step backward?
Mike
Mike
09-19-2016, 10:08 AM
#45
Mike that is a great question indeed and I too wonder who will replace Rich as the representative if he wins ? Who knows , it may end up being one of the other gents who are running for the president's position ?
09-19-2016, 10:26 AM
#46
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09-19-2016, 11:10 AM
#48
Thank You Andy . I guess now the follow on question would be ; If Rich does not win , will Chad and Tyler still be replacing him on the govt. relations side ? Or will he continue as the representative if he's not elected President ?