astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, but if Porcia denies it, it must not be so. (just like his repeated taunts of Mike).

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

See, that's the thing. You spin so much you don't even know the meaning!

I stated a fact, and you call it spin.....see how that works?

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Yet, a scant 20 posts or so later, he comes up with this one!

No wonder I get dizzy reading his posts??

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Actually you're mistaken there. I haven't thumped my chest about being a leader member at all. I've been a Leader Member for 3 years and if I recall only mentioned it when questioned about what other duties or abilities LM's have. I believe I mentioned the ability to vote on bylaws but that's it in essence. There is no "requirement" to do anything more. What I chose to do as part of that role, or others do, is completely up to them. I know it's hard not to get caught up the sudden feeding frenzy here today, but you and a few others have tried to weaponize that designation, as if there is a whole new standard that one must carry themselves by? I didn't see that as part of the LM info. I get the desire to look for anything to use as part this barrage, but that one really seems like a stretch. I'd welcome you or anyone else to find a comment I made about being a LM and being better than anyone, or being superior, etc etc. They just aren't there, and I know that for a fact. That I talk about what I've done at my club or others that I belong too, or shared some ideas about what I think works or doesn't work, or what I enjoy doing is something completely different that what you are trying to portray here, lets be fair. And it's you or others that want to attach some different code of conduct or whatever to people who have a LM designation (or perhaps just me), but really, that's your construct and yours only. For the record, I never taunted Mike about that, I offered him a genuine congrats on that and noted that it's great he took an additional step. If he got that for merit, or prior good deeds, or his work, who knows. It doesn't matter, and he's not required to anything more other than have it on his membership card. He gets the right to vote, but again, doesn't even have to do that.

Again, no need to rally the troops, they are all here. It looks pretty cut and dry to me. Public outreach, check. Club Support, check. Assisting members, check. membership development, check. I've done that, and doing it. How is that not supporting the AMA? Your basis here I guess is that because I don't agree with you, or others at times, or that you don't like my posting style, that I'm speaking on behalf of the AMA and doing a bad job representing them? You're entitled to your opinion on that, but as I've said, I've never spoken on behalf of the AMA on these or any threads, or sites. It's not my role to do so. If I was able to do that, I'd be proud to do so. With rare exception not a sole here knows what I do on behalf of the hobby or the clubs I belong to (or don't), nor do I know the same about anyone else. If I see or hear about something that works well or could work for me or any club I belong to, I might give it a try. If I mention something we've done, or experienced, and someone could get something out of it, great. I liked Franklins suggestion about a Taco in a bag for the record!

I get disagreeing on stuff here, and the person hits etc etc, but honestly, this one is a stretch. At the end of the day the LM designation is for an achievement, not a new job title. It's what we make of it, or chose not to. I don't hold Mike to any different standard than I did before, just because he is now a LM.

That pattern could cause a seizure,

init4fun

Ok , for real , lets put this to rest right here , shall we ?

My basis for mentioning your sarcasm was a direct result of you mentioning Franklin's sarcasm , and nothing more . It's called a "double standard" when you , yourself , call out someone for doing the very same thing you , yourself , do . This has exactly , pretty much , nothing to do with what I think of your posting style and everything to do with having not much tolerance for double standards like the kind you've exhibited here . You will note that not one time in all of our recent (since my own "come to Jesus" moment with Ken) exchanges have I once personally insulted you and I have no intention of making work for Ken by doing so . But when you call out Franklin's sarcastic posts , all the while making sarcastic posts of your own , I do believe you have opened the door to the discussion of your posts whether you like it or not . Simply put , If Franklin's sarcasms are fair game to call out , so too are yours .

So , now that we are straight with my mention of your sarcasms being because you , yourself brought up the sarcastic posts of another , let's move on to point #2 .....

The moment you publicly identified yourself as an AMA Leader Member , that put you directly in the position of representing the AMA ! That's exactly what my wavy groovy picture showed , the very first sentence saying that you , as a Leader Member , have the #1 responsibility of representing the AMA in a positive manner . Now , as a self identified Leader Member representative of the AMA do you really think responding to sarcasm with even more sarcasm of your own is behavior that Scott Anderson , Leader Member program coordinator , would be proud to show as an example of how a Leader Member should represent the AMA ?

In closing , one more thought ;

In another thread you said words to the effect of ; "init , it doesn't always have to be a battle" and buddy , I couldn't agree more ! As you will notice , I have battled with no one , called no one any bad names , and have not in the least "attacked" or "battled" with you , unless you call me calling out the double standard of the sarcasm an "attack" . The proper statement of obvious fact with the intent of possibly seeing the double standard disappear is in no way any kinds of attack , more like a plea for respectable behavior on the part of someone representing our organization ! Yes I do expect a Leader to have the strength to not respond to sarcasm in kind , but instead to admonish the sarcasm and press on "fighting the good fight" without feeling the need to "roll in the mud" with the person whose sarcasm has offended him so . You say Franklin tarnishes his position with the use of sarcasm , how could the same not be said of you when you resort to the same ?

Now , I hope we're perfectly clear on this , because to try and interpret this as any kinds of "attack" would be not only missing the boat completely , it would be akin to missing the entire ocean .

Thank You for reading .....

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

You guys are a bunch of old women, you moan, you complain, you run down the AMA but do you lift one finger? Heck no! You just run off your mouth with rumors, innuendo, and old gossip, and anyone who calls you on your false indignation you say they are attracting you. Your bigger hypocrites than that lousy bunch we have in Washington, on both sides of the isle. If the AMA is so bad then do something, prove it, fix it, but don't run off the mouth to flatter your loser mentality. But you won't you don't have the guts and you don't anything to show anything is wrong just spout off with the same BS you keep recycling. If you want to know what is wrong with the AMA look in the mirror!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I'll continue to monitor this thread and others that pop up with the AMA outrages of the day, there are so many it's hard to keep track, but they will keep coming for sure. Few if any will speak out or question them, because they can see what happens if god forbid they don't go along with it. That pattern has repeated itself as far back as the links Init dug up from 2008, but there are older ones. It's been interesting starting a thread that has anything remotely positive about the AMA and watch the scorched earth negativity start almost immediately. But the allegations of fraud were a new one for sure, specifically regarding ballots being thrown away. The more folks ask for proof, the more the personal attacks come, the reasons for which are obvious. There is no fraud either now, or in the past. Not a single on point or even tangential documented occurance. 0.0 instances.

But the good news is that the elections will happen, people will continue to talk about non existent conspiracies and complain, and the AMA will keep right on going as they always have. No drastic changes, no wall being build to keep those non traditional droners out. And keep in mind, that's going to happen regardless of who is elected. Although a small chance exists that Tougas or Tiano could be ever be elected, they will find their campaign sloganeering was one thing, trying to implement it, a whole different thing. Of course their promised were so vague and nebulous it would be hard to hold them to account for anything, but that's the beauty of politicking. The AMA will continue to move forward and change and adapt to the needs of the hobby The fringe element that for years have felt disenfranchised, disaffected, and dismissed will continue to feel that way, because most will do nothing to get involved and try to affect the change they so desperately want, other than complaining on a website.

Carry on, I've got some flying and club visiting to do today!

init4fun

Your whole post is nothing more than your view of something that I and several others here obviously fail to see . Yes I did just speak for the fellow posters who have recently spoken out about your antics here .

Person attacks ? Really ? Show me any personal attack I've posted , one "untruism" of anything I'VE said here about how you behave , and I'll gladly remove it !

Yes , you DO discredit every poll that says something you don't like , is that a personal attack to mention , while your discrediting yet another poll ?

Yes , you DO call out the sarcastic posts of others , all the while making sarcastic posts of your own , it that a personal attack to mention while your calling out another poster's sarcasm ?

Good Luck and Good Bye , I truly HAVE tried giving you the benifit of the doubt on a whole bunch of these "oddities" , but all one needs to do is to look at your sig lines to know why your really here , and outside of calling out your obvious disconnect between your sarcasm and that of others , I haven't much use of further conversation with you either .

init4fun

This VS Franklin's "College of Cardinals" post ...... Can anyone here tell me how EACH is supposed to not be taken as sarcasm ?

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Another +1

While you and I don't always agree, we do on this one! Along with many others that are still here, and many more that have (sadly) left due to Porcia's tactics.

The whole reason I have stayed in this forum through all the drama is because it is probably one of the best places for those who are interested and engaged with the AMA to have discussions and share their thoughts. It is really too bad that Porcia will repeatedly derail these threads by being so obstinate about his opinion, defending it at any cost and using just about every illogical fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies) known to man in order to justify his opinion or agenda. He says he embraces diversity of opinions, yet it is painfully clear that he is not, just another hypocrisy. I am not a big fan of moderation, and I feel for Ken on this one as Porcia is crafty at his trade, pushing the limits of the rules, yet lingering just within the boundaries of what he knows the rules to be.

Opinions, agendas........we all have them, we are all entitled to them and there is nothing inherently wrong with either......HOWEVER, one would hope that they be based on facts and reality and that they are (in this forum) meant to serve the greater good of the membership, NOT a select few. I was raised to question what I do not know to be true. When one has an opinion, or makes a statement that differs from what my personal experience has taught me, I will question it and ask for some context, fact, or something tangible to support that statement or opinion. Opinions are only as good as the facts that support them. Just Google, "Stupid Trump supporter" or "Stupid Clinton supporter" to see how, while we are all entitled to HAVE an opinion, doesn't mean they are worth $.02.

Porcia continues to try and portray himself as a stand-up guy who just has an opinion like everyone else and acknowledges how everyone else is just as entitled to their opinion as he is to his....HOWEVER, I find it funny that he continues to call the questions of the AMA , or disagreements and questions of his opinions (and I quote from his recent post from yesterday!) "AMA outrages of the day", or, "scorched earth negativity".

It's also funny how he will quickly dismiss these comments, without even a hint of acknowledging his role in the drama, despite saying numerous times, "I will be the first to acknowledge my wrongs"!

After repeated attempts to try and reason with Porcia, he fails to see that it is largely his tactics and apparent inability to engage in a fact-based discussion, NOT necessarily his opinions that are being "attacked" or questioned. I doubt he will acknowledge it now, either, even though it is painfully clear to anyone that has spent any time in these threads.

Regards,

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Remember Ken's directions on the ignore function? Mike says he availed himself of it, and is very happy. After 7 years I would have thought you would have too. If you don't like long or short winded fluff fluff, don't read it. Nobody is forced to do anything they don't want to.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I don't know how many times you've said Good Bye, or conversation OVER, or you're done, or not responding, but you are back every time, as you will be in response to this as well. Continue the conversations or don't. Since you're fond of quoting Ken recently, refer back to his directions to you and others about either not responding, or better yet using the ignore function. Why does that seem so difficult to do? That's a hypothetical by the way, I know why it is. I don't think that ignore function is the way to go, but that's just me. There's lots of good information and thoughts and points on here, even stuff I don't agree with.

Meanwhile, all of the comments continue to be focused on a person, or a writing style, or anything else other than what the thread and its similar issues is about. A frequent tactic used when the substance of an allegation can't be supported, as is the shift of focus to personality, rather than post content. I welcome any specific evidence of past fraud, or how any of the ballots for this election are going to be thrown in the trash and not counted.

So far the person that put that out there has provided no evidence of this.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Porcia, Porcia, Porcia.... For one that says he is here for the good of the group, and one who says he can admit it when he is wrong, it is disappointing that you just continue to tell others to just use the ignore button. Just another sign that you really do just want to push your agenda and opinions without regard to the requests made for you to consider your role in the drama

As much as we have had our differences, I really did believe you would be mature enough to make an effort to change. I guess I was wrong.

Astro

rcmiket

I had about as much "change " as I can stand.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I like the lecture on maturity from the guy who said this:

Not about that at all, just another sign of your delusional world. What purpose would it serve if I ignored your posts? doesn't make them go away. I know you wish I would do that so you could continue your spin unfettered and unquestioned. It's really the only reason I stay here. One of these days I will come to my senses when the realitysimks in that all the time spent here is a complete waste of time, as this venue just doesn't reach enough people to be relevant anyway.

Again, you seem to come at everyone of my comments as a challenge to you


Not at all. I could care less. Notice I only pick on your spin and twist. I'll say it again, I don't challenge your opinions, just your method of delivery and lack of facts.


You note your only purpose here is to somehow stop "my spin", and you realize that you have lost your sense in doing so and that it's all a waste of time because of the reach of the venue. And yet, you still do it. I constantly try to have a conversation with you or the others, it's almost unilaterally attacked, not for content, but for me. I'm not complaining, I'm used to it and can't change that, just pointing it out in as non confrontational way as possible. I'm not a proponent of the ignore function, I think it's a sign of defeat and closed one off to a wide range of thoughts. I only offer it as a suggestion to those who lament somehow being forced to read my comments, despite having a way to ignore them (or for that matter, just not comment on them). At least you were honest enough to say you're here just to pick on what you feel is my "spin". I agree it's a waste of time, and I also think it does little to advance any conversation, and ultimately is not productive, and gets everyone agitated. I have no personal grudge or animus or agenda against anyone here, notwithstanding the comments to the contrary. I'll be the first one to cry foul if there's anything wrong with this election. There didn't seem to be anything wrong with the last one, or the most recent DVP elections that not a single person here complained about. I'm optimistic that this one will go smoothly, and perhaps the EC will consider going outside the next time around if that many members are concerned about that issue, and are o/k with the expenses associated with that.

Off to prep for an event, have a good night.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Answered just as I would suspect one to who just wants to continue to spin, twist and deflect.

Why do you think you continue to be, "attacked"? (LOL, I used your term)
This is a serious question, posed to you, but I expect you to dodge it just like all the others you dodge that will paint you in a corner (hint: it is not because of your opinions)

Why have you been banned from other forums? (Hint: it wasn't because of your opinions)

Why have you had to have "come to Jesus" discussions with the moderators here? (Hint: it is not because of your opinions)

Why won't you acknowledge your part of the drama here and make an effort to keep these discussions on point? (I thought that is what you wanted?)

There are at least two of us here that have pledged to do so, why can't you? Wouldn't that be a win-win for everyone?

Regards,

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

And your point is? I meant what I said. If you can't acknowledge your role in the drama here, you must be delusional.
Not at all, they are a challenge to all who spend time here. You intentionally spin and twist and it is just not necessary here. State your opinion and move along.

No, I didn't say that! I said I would point out your spin (I've asked you to stop, but you won't. Instead, You've suggested I put you on ignore, even though you, "Are not a proponent of it" LOL I can show multiple instances where you proposed members use it!!) and I will continue to do so for as long as you want to use illogical fallacies and spin to deliver your message.
This is Hogwash and you know it! More Porcia pity-party! It is ALL about your delivery. You almost always find a way to insert lttle barbs and subtle jabs in your posts (look at your sig line , irrefutible evidence there!)
If only you could be honest enough to admit to your spin....
Neither does your spin! Nice deflection! As long as you spin, I'll be there to point it out! The choice is yours!
It's the spin that agitates, not someone pointing it out
And vice-versa, so why even make this statement?
The only agenda you've been accused of here is defending the AMA and your opinions using any method that suits you at the moment.

Astro