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All that AMA money, ever wonder where it all goes?

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All that AMA money, ever wonder where it all goes?

Old 09-23-2016, 03:49 PM
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porcia83
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So what is the right amount of money that should be handed out to clubs? Is it possible to come up with a figure that is acceptable to everyone? Or even a majority?
Old 09-23-2016, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
So what is the right amount of money that should be handed out to clubs? Is it possible to come up with a figure that is acceptable to everyone? Or even a majority?
Well, you could start with the breakdown from 2016, $125K that went to Muncie plus the $25K that went everywhere else, for a $150K budget. The split was 86%/13%, but for the sake of argument call it 80/20.

Whatever the total budget, 20% to Muncie field work, 80% to all others - with a focus on getting more fields close to where members actually live.
Old 09-23-2016, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Seems like you were able to find lots of information on where AMA money is going. It's not that hard
And yet there's plenty of money being spent on Muncie facilities. Always equal to or greater than what's spent on all other field work combined.
Old 09-24-2016, 04:22 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
And yet there's plenty of money being spent on Muncie facilities. Always equal to or greater than what's spent on all other field work combined.
Not sure why the AMA needs to give an equal amount of clubs that it spends on Muncie, seeing as how the HQ is there. This whole idea of them handing out money to clubs has an odd socialist sort of feel to it. I pay dues and live one place, so that they AMA then takes my dues and sends it to clubs all over the country. No, I'd rather not have that. There is no amount that would ever satisfy you, it appears. There is no split that would ever work. As long as Muncie gets anything it seems like it will be an issue for you. I'm glad the AMA helps support clubs here and there, as needed, and most importantly, as deserved. It's the clubs responsibility to raise their own funds and become self sufficient. If they can't do it, that's on them. There are plenty of ways to raise funds without them looking for a handout. You'll note from all that data Mike was able to share that some clubs made repeated requests for money in the same year and were turned down. What are some of the ways your club raised money?
Old 09-24-2016, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
And yet there's plenty of money being spent on Muncie facilities. Always equal to or greater than what's spent on all other field work combined.
Wonder just how much of these "operating costs" are directly related to the Muncie site? Surely with this kinda money being spent a mere 22,000.00 given out in site grants could be adjusted higher to help local clubs maintain and build sites. After all isn't that were the paying members (and future members) fly? After all aren't we on the front lines doing all the recruiting for the "front office"?

7.8 million in "operating expenses" in 2015
7.2 million in "operating expenses" in 2014
6.7 million in "operating expenses" in 2013
6.6 million in "operating expenses" in 2012
7.7 million in "operating expenses" in 2011
6.3 million in "operating expenses" in 2010

These expenses do not include publishing,supply cost ( including souvenirs) ,deprecation.officer services ( whatever that is) and committees. I got these numbers here.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 09-24-2016 at 05:04 AM.
Old 09-24-2016, 07:29 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
This whole idea of them handing out money to clubs has an odd socialist sort of feel to it. I pay dues and live one place, so that they AMA then takes my dues and sends it to clubs all over the country.
That argument works both ways. Why should money that comes from membership dollars around the country be used to make improvements at a field many/most members will never use? That's no different.
Old 09-24-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Wonder just how much of these "operating costs" are directly related to the Muncie site? Surely with this kinda money being spent a mere 22,000.00 given out in site grants could be adjusted higher to help local clubs maintain and build sites. After all isn't that were the paying members (and future members) fly? After all aren't we on the front lines doing all the recruiting for the "front office"?

7.8 million in "operating expenses" in 2015
7.2 million in "operating expenses" in 2014
6.7 million in "operating expenses" in 2013
6.6 million in "operating expenses" in 2012
7.7 million in "operating expenses" in 2011
6.3 million in "operating expenses" in 2010

These expenses do not include publishing,supply cost ( including souvenirs) ,deprecation.officer services ( whatever that is) and committees. I got these numbers here.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx

Mike
Good point. I suspect that a lot of that money goes to support the organization. We used to call them "self licking ice cream cones." The organization exists and spends most of it's money to support itself.
Old 09-24-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
It's the clubs responsibility to raise their own funds and become self sufficient. If they can't do it, that's on them.
Extend that thinking a bit. Let's say that the ten year decline in club membership (note 1) does not change. Will there be enough quality facilities close enough to where people live and work to make AMA membership a good value proposition? Does it change someone's decision whether to join or not if a quality facility is 30 minutes away? What if it's two hours away? Does that change their decision about AMA? I think it does. Simple economics. You change the cost / benefit calculation and it changes the outcome. I'm not saying there aren't folks willing to drive two hours or more to fly at an AMA club. I'm just saying there's fewer of them than are there those who are willing to drive less than an hour.


Originally Posted by porcia83
There are plenty of ways to raise funds without them looking for a handout. You'll note from all that data Mike was able to share that some clubs made repeated requests for money in the same year and were turned down. What are some of the ways your club raised money?
When I was last a member (about three years ago), they did an IMAC competition, some events at the mall, and an event at the local single A baseball team. In recent years, I think they've continued the IMAC and done a couple smaller events.



Note 1: Dave Scott MA article
Old 09-24-2016, 07:48 AM
  #34  
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Picked this gem from Franklin's quote.

Originally Posted by porcia83

It's the clubs responsibility to raise their own funds and become self sufficient. If they can't do it, that's on them.

Wow, you can't be serious.. I though the Headquarters were there to support the local clubs and members.
Guess not.

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 09-24-2016 at 07:51 AM.
Old 09-24-2016, 07:57 AM
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to that 2.5 million dollar insurance they brag about that nobody ever got nor ever will. Way too many stipulations. I guess they have to have though.
That money makes so much interest not to mention your dues.

Think they lobbied for some mandates?
Old 09-24-2016, 08:01 AM
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Why won't clubs/fields take your homeowners insurance as good enough liability coverage to fly with them?
Old 09-24-2016, 08:08 AM
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ReALLY....$500 over past years. You got it made!
Old 09-24-2016, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadgeter
Why won't clubs/fields take your homeowners insurance as good enough liability coverage to fly with them?

We would providing it was in writing. Some polices do not cover R/C activities.

Mike
Old 09-24-2016, 08:47 AM
  #39  
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thanks mike, I'll have to check mine but my closest club REQUIRES AMA period. I think not only for the ins. but for the commeroderry. The feeling one would be an outcast if they didn't "belong".
Old 09-24-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
We would providing it was in writing. Some polices do not cover R/C activities.

Mike
For those who can use it, USAA's Homeowner's does cover non-commercial "sUAS," "model aircraft," and/or "drones" of all types.
Old 09-24-2016, 09:17 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
For those who can use it, USAA's Homeowner's does cover non-commercial "sUAS," "model aircraft," and/or "drones" of all types.
Mine says no "aircraft" but means people carriers. Does cover my boat that I did not know so I have double coverage on that which is good for the price. Boat policy covers much more though. HO just liability.

No mention of RC so I'll have to call
Old 09-24-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadgeter
thanks mike, I'll have to check mine but my closest club REQUIRES AMA period. I think not only for the ins. but for the commeroderry. The feeling one would be an outcast if they didn't "belong".
If your insurance covered you and you paid your club dues I just can't see what the problem would be. Unless your site owner spelled out AMA insurance in the lease. I cannot speak for other clubs but when were approached with a logical alternatives were open to listen and try and work out a solution.

Mike
Old 09-24-2016, 11:28 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Wonder just how much of these "operating costs" are directly related to the Muncie site? Surely with this kinda money being spent a mere 22,000.00 given out in site grants could be adjusted higher to help local clubs maintain and build sites. After all isn't that were the paying members (and future members) fly? After all aren't we on the front lines doing all the recruiting for the "front office"?

7.8 million in "operating expenses" in 2015
7.2 million in "operating expenses" in 2014
6.7 million in "operating expenses" in 2013
6.6 million in "operating expenses" in 2012
7.7 million in "operating expenses" in 2011
6.3 million in "operating expenses" in 2010

These expenses do not include publishing,supply cost ( including souvenirs) ,deprecation.officer services ( whatever that is) and committees. I got these numbers here.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx

Mike
Are you really on the front lines recruiting? I'd love to see some actual proof of that. Does your club hold events and try to get the public in, not just the members of the club, and then actively recruit new members? I know some clubs that just want fellow glow/gas pilots in their club...membership dwindles and they scratch their heads and wonder...why? Do you guys participate in the STEM program, when is the last time your club was in a classroom? Host Cub and Boy Scouts? Do you do mall shows, library events, local "Celebrate the Town Days"? If not...how exactly are you recruiting? Why exactly does the AMA need to give out money to "maintain" a club. Sounds like welfare to me....I thought we were against that kinda thing, you know, make people (and clubs) responsible for themselves, get off of public assistance, etc etc etc. How much has your club received from the AMA?

As to costs to keep multiple facilities open, have you ever owned a business and the brick and mortar building it was in? Pay for maintenance and upkeep? How about landscaping? You work part time in a hobby shop, ask the owner some of these questions. Do you know what "operating expenses" mean, and what is involved with them?


Also, if you're going to mock the figure given out to clubs as "mere", at least get it right...it was $23,000, not $22,000. I guess we will differ on what "mere" is, that seems like a lot of money. Chances are the 3 clubs that received money in your state were appreciative...at least I would hope. TX clubs got 3 out of the 4 grants. Nice!
Old 09-24-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Good point. I suspect that a lot of that money goes to support the organization. We used to call them "self licking ice cream cones." The organization exists and spends most of it's money to support itself.
It's not enough that almost every member of the EC is paid nothing.....I guess they should all work from their homes, or perhaps pop up tents too. Handouts for clubs from our dues, and everyone work for free. Socialism?
Old 09-24-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Picked this gem from Franklin's quote.

Originally Posted by porcia83

It's the clubs responsibility to raise their own funds and become self sufficient. If they can't do it, that's on them.

Wow, you can't be serious.. I though the Headquarters were there to support the local clubs and members.
Guess not.

Mike
LOL...from Franlin's quote...still going on with that eh? But yes...the AMA isn't there to keep clubs running that can't do it for themselves. Read the grant requests, something not everyone is able to do and understand.
Old 09-24-2016, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadgeter
to that 2.5 million dollar insurance they brag about that nobody ever got nor ever will. Way too many stipulations. I guess they have to have though.
That money makes so much interest not to mention your dues.

Think they lobbied for some mandates?
You don't seem to understand how the AMA program works, or what types of claims have been submitted, and paid. Is the rest of your premise that the AMA is profiting off of our dues from interest? A quick review of the financials shows that's just not the case.
Old 09-24-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
If your insurance covered you and you paid your club dues I just can't see what the problem would be. Unless your site owner spelled out AMA insurance in the lease. I cannot speak for other clubs but when were approached with a logical alternatives were open to listen and try and work out a solution.

Mike
I agree with you Mike, as to how it should be. AMA, however, attaches strings to its club charters, which most clubs buy in order to insure the flying site owner. Rule #1 is that only AMA members will be allowed to fly at chartered club sites. There is one exception: If the owner of the site is a public entity that does not allow exclusion of non-club members, then AMA will waive that condition. Lacking that waiver, the 'cheap' insurance provided to cover the owner of the land is $60 or whatever it may have slightly inflated to, plus the cost of all the personal insurance policies mandated for club membership, whether they have coverage for model flying by their HO (and or PUP, etc.) or not. One 80 member club I belong to pays $6 grand/year for that cheap insurance covering the public entity that owns it, and that is pretty typical.
Old 09-24-2016, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadgeter
Why won't clubs/fields take your homeowners insurance as good enough liability coverage to fly with them?
As the towns and cities where most fields are located. I think you'll figure out eventually why the like folks having that layer of coverage.

Originally Posted by Gadgeter
ReALLY....$500 over past years. You got it made!
Hey...we were really thankful for it. Another $75.00 is coming our way soon based on a newspaper article featuring our clubs recent event. I know of one club close to ours that got $350.00 for help after sustained significant damage to their field. With only 35 members, and the damages sustained, it was a big help to them. But this is yet another classic damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. They give out money, but of course it's not enough. If they don't give it out, well, they are bad for that too. It's a no win. I guess some clubs like it though, they kept going back to the well over and over in the same year. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Gadgeter
thanks mike, I'll have to check mine but my closest club REQUIRES AMA period. I think not only for the ins. but for the commeroderry. The feeling one would be an outcast if they didn't "belong".
They require it because they probably don't own the land, and because they like that thing called insurance that comes along with the AMA membership. Doubtful the land owners care about comradery, they can't control that with a membership. That either happens or doesn't among people. Plenty of stories here and elsewhere about issues within clubs with personality etc. I have heard about clubs however that don't require AMA membership, they are owned by either a person or entity and don't require it. Lack of AMA membership certainly doesn't preclude folks from flying and having fun.

Originally Posted by Gadgeter
Mine says no "aircraft" but means people carriers. Does cover my boat that I did not know so I have double coverage on that which is good for the price. Boat policy covers much more though. HO just liability.

No mention of RC so I'll have to call
RC will fall under peronsal contents/property. You're covered for it, subject to deductibles on the first party side, and damages you cause to other parties (in most instances). If you want more coverage you can always ask for it, but you'll pay more. It's always best to check with your carrier or agent though, and get it in writing.
Old 09-24-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley
I agree with you Mike, as to how it should be. AMA, however, attaches strings to its club charters, which most clubs buy in order to insure the flying site owner. Rule #1 is that only AMA members will be allowed to fly at chartered club sites. There is one exception: If the owner of the site is a public entity that does not allow exclusion of non-club members, then AMA will waive that condition. Lacking that waiver, the 'cheap' insurance provided to cover the owner of the land is $60 or whatever it may have slightly inflated to, plus the cost of all the personal insurance policies mandated for club membership, whether they have coverage for model flying by their HO (and or PUP, etc.) or not. One 80 member club I belong to pays $6 grand/year for that cheap insurance covering the public entity that owns it, and that is pretty typical.
That's not a bad figure for a policy based on quotes I was getting this year..upwards of $15,000 for the club, and that was for less than half of the coverage currently in place.
Old 09-24-2016, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
That's not a bad figure for a policy based on quotes I was getting this year..upwards of $15,000 for the club, and that was for less than half of the coverage currently in place.
You were looking for alternatives to paying into AMA's primary money making machine. Right, sure you were.............

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