franklin_m

My impression from email discussions with EVP is they're unwilling to implement any sort of accountability. They keep hanging on the self-regulation method, and we can see that's not working, at least with some high risk and high profile groups.

Just go look at the revoked waiver list. Not a since entry. Even after these crashes at the club in PA, AMA doesn't see fit to yank any waivers? Even after the video of fliers at the club in Florida, and all the other fliers who took no action against a clearly rogue flier, not a single name on the revoked waiver list. Even after the July EC minutes talking about an incident with a jet, not a single name on the revoked list. I'm seeing a trend - ZERO accountability.

JPO told leadership they want to be part of the solution, and that it's better education and communication with its members. Perhaps, but how do you reconcile that when their communication tool, the "Contrails" magazine hasn't been updated in a year? Same with the JPO website.

AMA needs to start making an example of these individuals that are endangering the hobby for all of us.

init4fun

Hi Franklin ,

Because I didn't want to reply with an uninformed answer , I took the time over the last day or two to read the entire AMA membership manual as well as the "members and clubs" section and I found no mention of the issue of an AMA sanctioned club needing corrective action as a group . The procedure for each member to receive corrective action is spelled out clearly in article V , but I am left to believe that there is no mention of an entire club needing censure because up till recent times my suspicion is that the situation of a rogue club hadn't yet presented itself ? According to article 5 the traditional method of reporting was said to be one member's complaint of another member's bad/unsafe flying and it was encouraged to be settled at the phone call level before rising up into the more strict punishments . "Back in the day" I'll bet a phone call from an AMA official would be enough to warn a flyer into curtailing any unsafe flying behavior , and I'm left to wonder today's folks would be so compliant , especially at a field called mayhem . Speaking of mayhem field , Andy did get in touch with them and if all worked as it should there should be no more flying like we saw in that video , I wonder what the day to day flying operations look like at that field today ?

PS , I agree 100% that if a bunch of club members stood by and said nothing while such flying was going on , well then that whole club needs a collective "backhander" in one form or another . Today's "wake up call" may well prevent tomorrow's ugly incident far more surely than "playing ostrich" and burying one's head in the sand would .

franklin_m

I compliment Andy for doing something. That said, it's both sad and and telling that AMA has no process for handling such clubs where the safety culture is clearly off the rails. To me that's a symptom of their clear "hands off" approach to flight discipline accountability. It'll be curious to see if they fix that gap in their governance. I'm not holding my breath though.

As for how flying is today? I suspect better. But whether it's there or anywhere, if there isn't the occasional spot checks by outsiders, and appropriate corrective action, it'll be right back where it was in a while. The process is called "normalization of deviation." Also interesting that as of a couple days ago, there's not a word on any of the Markham Club's site talking about Andy's actions and/or the need to be disciplined in their flying. Heck, their news letter hasn't been updated since 2015!

http://www.mppaonline.net/index.html or https://www.facebook.com/pages/Markh...10826232292953

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Can we move on to more issues?

init4fun

Sure FLAPHappy , what issues would you like to move on to ?

Sport_Pilot

What about what this thread is supposed to be about? Instead of another case of which there is a separate thread for!

init4fun

Sure thing Sport , So what would you like to say about the thread's topic ?

Seeing lots of calls for "thread purity" , but not much input here , thread topic or otherwise ..............

init4fun

Cue the sound of crickets chirping off in the distance ....

Sport_Pilot

Why bother, this forum is dead and it is on another site. Apparently others don't like the way threads get trampled on and no longer go here.

init4fun

Yea Sport , you think the reason the place is a literal ghost town is because the posters just couldn't tolerate a bit of thread drift ? Really ?

You have a very unique way of looking at things , that's for sure .

I think the buggy/glitchy software drove most away , and the fact that since "Wattflyer's" inception to be the electric niche left RCU with mostly fuel burning conversation , and since fuel burning is dwindling while electric is surging (partial pun intended) , RCU kinda missed out on it's seat at the dinner table .

But if you wanna think that thread drift drove everyone away , well , I guess we're all entitled to see things our way ....

cj_rumley

On the other site you mentioned, I see a count of posts under heading "Informal Clubs" of 20,564 and under "AMA Clubs" the count is 924. Maybe it isn't so much a matter of electric vs fuel burning(?)

CJ

Sport_Pilot

More fuel burning posts there as well. Not dwindling anymore. Standing about the same for a year or so.

init4fun

Really Sport ? More fuel burning posts at Wattflyer ????? You are aware that Wattflyer is electric only , yes ?

Since "the other site I mentioned" that CJ referred to is Wattflyer , how about you tell me just how many fuel burning posts are there ?

maybe you shouldn't be so quick to try to contradict every thing I say that you can't even slow down long enough to actually read the posts to understand what it is your contradicting .

Sport_Pilot

Never heard of that site. I was referring to the other all RC board. You brought up WattFlyer, thought that was the owner of the board I am talking about Starts with RC and ends with s. Has a TV carto0n character.

init4fun

Ok , fair enough , if you didn't know what WattFlyer is I now understand your post . What I was originally referring to was your mention of the lack of traffic here . I said I really don't think thread drift drove them away I think the buggy software and other less difficult to post to sites are the more likely reasons . I then used the example of WattFlyer to illustrate one likely place where a bunch of RCU's posters may have went , WattFlyer is a spin off of RC Universe (in the same way that "Flying Giants" is a spinoff of RC Groups) and it was created to give the electric only flyers an entire forum of their own to talk all things electric powered . I believe this in itself dropped RC Universe's post counts down , even though RCU still has an electric powered section a portion of the electric powered posts are now over at WattFlyer and not here at RCU . I realize it's a question that deserves it's own thread but I'm left wondering just how fragmented any site should become at the risk of a seemingly dwindling activity level .

SunDevilPilot

Here is the argument being made in court.

https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/recordings/recordings2017.nsf/469F0B57EDA3C53A852580E300577ED7/$file/15-1495.mp3


I was left with the feeling the judges didn't appreciate the actions of the FAA in ignoring the very simplistic statement of congress which forbid the FAA from doing exactly what they did, make new rules.

SunDevilPilot

This is where I found the link to the audio:

Judge Tells FAA Rep: "You're Just Making Stuff Up." - DRONELIFE