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"Our Industry Is Suffering" M.A. April 2017

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Old 04-11-2017, 05:11 AM
  #26
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We must all face the fact times are changing, I've watched this decline for many years and truthfully do not know the solution other than we need to pull together and work as a team I have seen at least five good hobbyshops go under because they could not sell what was on their shelves and they have no recource, if they could return the goods for resale in some other location and get a credit .............. from the distributor, instead I 've seen the distributor dump unordered items in the shop owners lap and force them to keep it or lose access. the hobbyshops cannot afford this they are struggling as it is.

I wanted to open a shop but the distributors wanted to dump all sorts of junk on me at my expense and the profit margins are so small it's a waste of time.......... I don't want to run a toy store. our local hobbyshops (spell that franchise) here are doing the best they can to stay afloat but internet competition is killing them. The hobbyshop is where we used to hang out and share info and advice, now days the people behind the counter don't know a stabilizer from a stall and don't care. all mom pop type shops are history.

Our local contests from time to time are packed with spectators and we have given the small hand lauch gliders to the kids, the response is very positive. we have hard working leaders here.

If you pay attention you may notice many group leaders act in a way of self interest and will get physical when called out. and the poor attitudes shown to newcomers and spectators isn't helping at all.

We cannot overcome the normal course of change but we can control ourselves in a manner that enhances what we do. To sum it up GREED and SELF interest is killing us.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:34 PM
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Need some changes

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Old 04-11-2017, 09:34 PM
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LJE4357, what happened to your post?
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:46 AM
  #29
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"The IRS will find that out."

LJE4357 sorry but the AMA just last year went though a IRS audit and they found nothing worth changing the tax status of the organization.

Mike
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:01 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
"The IRS will find that out."

LJE4357 sorry but the AMA just last year went though a IRS audit and they found nothing worth changing the tax status of the organization.

Mike
I didn't say it was AMA. That doesn't mean that something can't be done in the AMA building. There's a lot you don't know about. I posted that to early. That's why I pulled it off. Either that, or your just trying to change the issue. There Lawyer did that with mine. I reported that to the Ohio Bar, last night, on 3 issues that were illegal.

An arrest has to be done here in Florida which should happen soon. Let me put it this way. The FBI is still dismantling hundreds of hours of the recordings they made, because they were to busy with other issues that were more important. They just started working on this case. The amount of evidence I have can choke a horse. I'm not sure if anyone has ever worked with the FBI. They are the hardest people to communicate with, until they actually talk to you. If your a Leader Member, contact any other ones you know. A lot of guys want to see the AMA change back the it used to be. We now have the opportunity. The AMA records are correct, That why the IRS didn't find any thing wrong. I guess we just wait and see. These guys got themselves in trouble, because they believed a lie. Now there in a lot more. This is the last posting will make about this issue. Let me ask you a question. How would you feel if a upper management employee, said something to a person at the VA who I been working with for the last 6 months, he told him my wife was just diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer he said " I hopes she dies". So you just a member, there's a lot you don't know. But this is all going to come out a lot sooner than you think. " Conspiracy to commit Murder" is a serious felony. I'm done for now. I like the "Over 50 thread a lot better"
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:13 AM
  #31
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Well guys, my buddy from RC Groups tried to put another Malware virus on my computer last night. But I stopped it. He keeps digging a bigger hole for himself. I got 4 computers with virus he has sent me, And he was on line with me last night when was on AOL, using desktop. Had 2 witnesses watching that. The FBI already has his IP address from the first computer, he screwed up on. There still getting information from all the hacking of my phone. I recorded 2 months of it. It's in a safety deposit box in a bank. My lawyer told me to keep it there until this all goes to court. I'm not sure how much the FBI has. There must be some times that there laughing there butts off with some of the stuff they recorded. If any of you guys have a computer with Intel processor made after 2009. Take it back to where you got it and ask for you money back. Also if you have AT&T UVerse , get rid of it, and go to Spectrum, it isn't 100% but it's better than At&T. If you use any of the VOIP phones, be aware that a 5 year old can hack them.

Here is a list of the company's I'm in the process of suing.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:24 AM
  #32
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Just something I have noticed. We keep trying to get new people into the hobby with varying degrees of success. But we need to look at ourselves first. How many clubs have over 100 members with an active group of maybe 20? How about at club meetings? How many people are coming out for them? For the hobby shops to be successful we need to get people motivated again. And by people I mean our members. My club does an annual air show complete with sims and a separate flight line for trainers. We buddy box over 100 kids every year and we don't see them until the next year. Does this surprise me? No not really.


I believe that we need our people who already love the hobby to come out with their kids and grand kids, nieces and nephews. At least these young people have already been exposed to the hobby. But first we need to energize our members. We need more local Fun Flies and events. We need clubs to work together and take turns hosting events. This goes for Pattern and IMAC too. Having more inter-club events within a 2-hour radius would help to breathe new life in to people and clubs.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:53 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceal View Post
........ We buddy box over 100 kids every year and we don't see them until the next year.......
Hi Bruce ,

Now see , this is exactly what I was referring to when I said the interest just isn't there anymore for the general public about aviation . Those 100 kids did get more exposure by being buddy boxed than we ever did as youngsters and yet of our generation there was enough aviation interested folks to make this a growing hobby VS today where you say not a one of those 100 kids took up the hobby after being introduced to it in the best way possible .


Sad to say , but for all except us who truly have the "aviation bug" , the "magic" and "intrigue" of aviation just ain't there anymore .....
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:53 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Hi Bruce ,

Now see , this is exactly what I was referring to when I said the interest just isn't there anymore for the general public about aviation . Those 100 kids did get more exposure by being buddy boxed than we ever did as youngsters and yet of our generation there was enough aviation interested folks to make this a growing hobby VS today where you say not a one of those 100 kids took up the hobby after being introduced to it in the best way possible .


Sad to say , but for all except us who truly have the "aviation bug" , the "magic" and "intrigue" of aviation just ain't there anymore .....
I agree 100%. This hobby grew when we were kids, because there were hobby shops and model manufactures. Today most hobby shops and manufactures have all gone by the wayside. Who's left, Robart, DuBro, Suvillan. Everything comes out of China. The only way I see it come back is to put import fees on all the junk coming in from China, making it competitive in cost. Yes the prices would go up, and it would probably at least 10 years to get it growing. But it worked before, no reason it shouldn't work again. Besides if you model an RPV, it's really scale. No Pilot.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
"The IRS will find that out."

LJE4357 sorry but the AMA just last year went though a IRS audit and they found nothing worth changing the tax status of the organization.

Mike

The truth is they spent weeks combing through everything down to the cost of the paper clips. What they came back with was a couple of recomendations as to this should be reported here instead of there stuff, just a few small things to justify all the time they spent.

Vicki, Keith, and everyone at HQ do a very good job with that stuff.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:17 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Hi Franklin ,

The AMA's membership numbers (or lack thereof) are of course tied to the numbers of folks "club flying" the traditional .40 and up sized RC planes , and like I said above as years go by it seems less and less folks are aviation interested VS video game interested . Tell me , do you have any meaningful numbers of park flyers flying in the local open spaces of your area ? This lack of participation is in my opinion not because of anything the AMA did or didn't do , it's because to the younger generations video games are the pastime of choice , leaving RC planes and the AMA with not enough "new blood" to replace us old farts as we croak . Yes I too believe the AMA will go the way of the dinosaur when enough of us have died off that the remaining numbers can no longer support it . It will get smaller & smaller till it finally either totally disappears or ends up becoming only an insurance broker for the few still flying the big stuff .

And to anyone who wants to comment , What do you think of the lack of AMA sanctioned flying events listed in this April's edition ? We're talking April May & June , three great spring months that in years past there would be page after page of flying events , the whole thing now takes up what ? maybe 4 pages ? I'd call that a serious lack of participation leading directly to the above noted suffering of the industry ......

I hadn't noticed the lack of event in April - June, but if it holds, that would be a leading indicator of the organization's health ... at least with respect to the club flying business model. Jet flyers and big airplane flyers will always need a larger field, but one has to wonder if there's enough of them to keep the HQ staff funded, to pay for EC travel (easily twice as much as they gave in flying field grants last year), and pay for "Taj-Muncie."

Given the current trends facing AMA - changing demographics, youth memberships not converting, open adult renewals declining, and seniors declining, I think they're facing pretty serious business headwinds. Since there isn't as much of a "need" to have AMA membership to fly in local parks or open spaces, one has to wonder if they're business model will survive.

But now that I think of it, we have one thing to look forward to: if they follow the EVP's recommendation, they're going to spend even more money to try and attract MR fliers.

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Old 04-16-2017, 07:58 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by LJE4357 View Post
I agree 100%. This hobby grew when we were kids, because there were hobby shops and model manufactures. Today most hobby shops and manufactures have all gone by the wayside. Who's left, Robart, DuBro, Suvillan. Everything comes out of China. The only way I see it come back is to put import fees on all the junk coming in from China, making it competitive in cost. Yes the prices would go up, and it would probably at least 10 years to get it growing. But it worked before, no reason it shouldn't work again. Besides if you model an RPV, it's really scale. No Pilot.
Hi Larry ,

I honestly do believe just like the great example of shooting marbles given by oh44077 , that the hobby is past it's "store on every corner" heyday and no amount of hobbyshop manipulation is gonna bring it back . We , as young technically interested folks were drawn to the RC airplane hobby whereas today's tech minded youth instead goes for video games and robots . Yes indeed in our youth there was a hobbyshop on every corner and it was the public's changing hobby tastes and not anything the hobbyshops did or didn't do that caused them to be replaced by "Gamestop" (huge video game store chain now seen on every corner the way hobbyshops used to) .

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
The truth is they spent weeks combing through everything down to the cost of the paper clips. What they came back with was a couple of recomendations as to this should be reported here instead of there stuff, just a few small things to justify all the time they spent.

Vicki, Keith, and everyone at HQ do a very good job with that stuff.
Hi Andy ,

Yes indeed if our organization came out of an IRS audit unscathed it means all the ducks had to be in a row cause if they weren't the IRS would have found it . They are very effective in applying their laws & codes to the day to day operations of organizations like ours .

Kudos to our bookkeepers for keeping things straight .

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I hadn't noticed the lack of event in April - June, but if it holds, that would be a leading indicator of the organization's health ... at least with respect to the club flying business model. Jet flyers and big airplane flyers will always need a larger field, but one has to wonder if there's enough of them to keep the HQ staff funded, to pay for EC travel (easily twice as much as they gave in flying field grants last year), and pay for "Taj-Muncie."

Given the current trends facing AMA - changing demographics, youth memberships not converting, open adult renewals declining, and seniors declining, I think they're facing pretty serious business headwinds. Since there isn't as much of a "need" to have AMA membership to fly in local parks or open spaces, one has to wonder if they're business model will survive.

But now that I think of it, we have one thing to look forward to: if they follow the EVP's recommendation, they're going to spend even more money to try and attract MR fliers.
Hi Franklin ,

As a matter of policy , when one campaign has proven to be ineffective , yes indeed "throwing good money after bad" is no reasonable person's way forward . My personal belief is that we stop trying to attract any one single type of flyer and instead try to get ALL aspects of the hobby into the public eye so as to maybe pick up the few folks who may see this as a lifelong hobby rather than a passing fad . Sure , MR flyers should feel welcome , just as welcome as CL flyers and FF flyers , but no one segment deserves more advertising/promotion than any other does . "Courting" MR flyers with freebies that aren't offered to ALL members ? Nope , not as far as I'm concerned , and I never once recall receiving a free AMA membership with any single model airplane purchase as was the case last year with the free AMA memberships given to the drone buyers (at best buy was it ? or wallmart ?) .
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:00 PM
  #38
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Franklin:

To answer your question/comment regarding the amount of advertising in MA, you only have to look at the advertising rates. MA rates are about twice the amount of any other model publication. By the way, it appears that Fly RC is gone.

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Old 04-18-2017, 04:32 AM
  #39
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It's true. Maplegate Media which was Fly RC, RC Heli Pilot, and several other hobby related titles dealing with robots, drones, rc cars and even airsoft, had closed its doors.

They did manage to pay the contributors for the last issue and AFAIK have plans to refund unused subscription money.

Fly RC name and domain were bought and have plans on continuing in all digital format
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:23 PM
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Well I wish RCM would have paid their contributors
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:45 AM
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Well I wish RCM would have paid their contributors
That's for sure! Right after I renewed my subscription the mag went belly up.

CR
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:00 PM
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I've been an AMA member since I was 10. Dropped it thru college and renewed every year since. Back in the day, the AMA didn't own property, it had an office in Reston and considered itself a lobby for our model aviation needs. When they moved to Muncie it seem that the old guard wanted a personal flying field funded with our money, and they got exactly that. I think my loyalty to the AMA ended when they bought a turbine plane plus engine so they could "evaluate" that type of model. I was hoping to get my turn to evaluate with a free jet, but they never offered.

They basically ended the airshow team program and told all of the small teams that it was too expensive to pay for the brochures that we were required to hand out. Said we'd have to buy a trailer set up with a bunch of simulators or we didn't qualify to be an airshow team any longer.

At this point(age 61) my love for this hobby has never been greater. I have a basement full of warbirds and sport planes and fly all of the time. What is missing is any loyalty to the AMA. It seems that their choice of Romancing the Drone has resulted in the alienation of their long-time members. I would love to see some solid reasons to support the AMA but it seems like the ordinary modeler has been pushed aside. I'm not the only person who thinks this way. I CD at least one event a year and attend several others in my area and most of the talk is contemptuous of the current direction of the AMA.

Any thoughts?
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:39 PM
  #43
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I think the teleconference idea instead of VP junkets has merit but that doen't address the idea of this thread. "Romancing the Drone," LOL, is understandable; they hope to gain some of them as members. I guess they have gained a SIG for drone racing, though. (??) So maybe it worked somewhat. Internet hobby shops have killed the retail walk-in store except for in lage cities, don't know what we can do about that. My nearest retail hobby shop is 75 miles away.

I don't wholly believe the retail industry is suffering, some web retailers are still there even if some have recently folded up. I won't spend several hours behind the wheel to visit my nearest hobby shop when I can order what I need on the web. Don't know what else to do.

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Old 04-23-2017, 05:42 PM
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Not to worry, Jay Smith will do everything in his power to keep AMA and Model Aviation Magazine going.
He needs MA so he can include his picture with his latest freebie toy in every issue.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:05 PM
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Ouch!
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:31 AM
  #46
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In my neck of the woods, the FAA and the dog and pony show they executed last year discouraged so many fellow flyers and many had quit because all the hassle to fly a model airplane is not worth it. Then the AMA with its order to resist, then join, then follow the rules although nobody knew what rules to follow, has gotten to the point we just are getting out of the hobby altogether and finding something less regulated and full of BS, like golf or fishing. I cannot believe I now go through less BS getting my boat in the water and fish then I do when wanting to fly at the club. How many clubs now have the "rule of the week"? Again, the AMA, and clubs, and FAA are regulating people away from the hobby. All my fellow flyers have either quit or want to fly alone and "undetected". The straw that broke a lot of backs with the AMA was the dues increase last year. That even probably did it with me. They could have done a small cost of living adjustment every few years. To me, this was poor management.

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Old 04-24-2017, 08:22 AM
  #47
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I'm curious what "AMA rules" are getting in the way of your enjoyment?
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:22 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
I'm curious what "AMA rules" are getting in the way of your enjoyment?
Probably the same ones that got in the way of Freddie's enjoyment down at "Mayhem" field.

From the looks of his videos, the speed rule got in the way of his enjoyment, as did the prohibition of BLOS (that video of AMA member flying 3mi out to see is a great example of how "AMA members are not the problem), heck it appears that even his own club's rules get in the way of his enjoyment - like ones on those red stop signs that say no taxi past this point.

That was too easy...

FYI BH, just because you or someone convinced him to pull the video showing him doing 250 plus doesn't mean someone doesn't have screenshots and downloads

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Old 04-26-2017, 05:10 AM
  #49
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I'm curious what "AMA rules" are getting in the way of your enjoyment?
BH, while I applaud your dedication and passion for the hobby and AMA, it is my opinion that it would serve the hobby best if the AMA (and its staunch supporters) take a step back and actually listen to those that are disgruntled, instead of taking the defensive and divisive approach that they have taken over the last few years.

Sometimes a smaller, more cohesive, united and focused organization is healthier than a larger, divided one.

Regards,

Astro
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:17 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
BH, while I applaud your dedication and passion for the hobby and AMA, it is my opinion that it would serve the hobby best if the AMA (and its staunch supporters) take a step back and actually listen to those that are disgruntled, instead of taking the defensive and divisive approach that they have taken over the last few years.

Sometimes a smaller, more cohesive, united and focused organization is healthier than a larger, divided one.

Regards,

Astro
Well said.

Mike
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