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Poll , Are you an AMA member because you WANT to be , or because you HAVE to be ?

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View Poll Results: Are you an AMA member because you want to be , or because you have to be ?
Want to be
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Poll , Are you an AMA member because you WANT to be , or because you HAVE to be ?

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Old 02-18-2018, 06:27 AM
  #26  
Propworn
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer View Post
Just a thought, how about a sub forum in R/C Airplanes titled "Independent Flying Sites. There must be landowners around the country who, whether hobbyists or not, allow some of their land to be used to fly model aircraft independent of the AMA.
In the land of litigation if I were a land owner even in the middle of nowhere I don't think I could take the chance. Lack of first party insurance through your AMA might be the reason many of the sites I have visited in the US are on public land. Park land, city land, federal even the back of a prison. Must make it hard to find and keep good flying sites.

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Old 02-18-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
...... even the back of a prison........
Might that have been in Massachusetts by any chance ? I know of a really big RC flying club located in Bridgewater , Ma. that flies on the outskirts of a (minimum security) prison .
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:01 PM
  #28  
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No it was on my way to a competition in Fort Worth.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:01 PM
  #29  
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Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:58 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot.
Yet another reason to like Texas....
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:07 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot.

In a period of 9/10 years I traveled from Windsor Ontario Canada/Detroit down to Florida/Georgia and Fort Worth Texas for the SAE Aerodesign East and West contest. During the 2 weeks each time I spent the better part of a week both coming and going to the competition seeking out and flying at model airports along the way. In 99% of the cases the fields have been located on public lands. When I asked why it always was the lack of or cost of insurance for the land owner. The few private clubs were expensive, had a long waiting list to join and usually the owner himself was heavily involved in RC. One of the biggest complaints was because they were public they could not keep the general public from using the land. One fellow who hated the club used to walk his dogs regularly on the field and encourage them to crap all over the pit area when no one was there.

I was told that all you needed to fly at these sites was membership in the AMA you did not need to be a member of the club. Very few had clauses in the agreement that membership in the club was a prerequisite for using the field. Like you said it varies from state to state.

So far I have flown in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Missouri, and Illinois. This summer I intend on spending an extended time in Newfoundland. I will be traveling to and from via the upper eastern states. I always have towed my toy box so I will see how many other states I can add to my list. In all my travels I must say I have never met a better group of people than the ones I bump into at the clubs I have visited. The US has the friendliest welcoming group you could ever hope to meet. Really looking forward to this coming summer.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:28 AM
  #32  
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Thats great to hear.

We require AMA but not club membership, if you don't join the club you don't have a key to the gate and its only open when a member is present but other than that we welcome and encourage guests and if you ever find yourself near Jacksonville we would love to have you hang out.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:58 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
Texas and a coupla other states, have it written into state law/state constitution that, a landowner can not be sued for allowing recreational use of his property.
so, here, the whole landowner requires it insurance scam is rather moot.
The actual allowing of the recreational activity what ever it is may be protected but I would bet dollars to donuts it would not preclude the land owner to be held in some way responsible if it was suspected the participants were acting in an irresponsible or reckless manner under permission of the land owner to engage in that recreational activity. So now you have a private non AMA site with guys flying with disregard for a recognized CBOs/AMA safety guidelines and someone, a spectator, child etc. sustains an injury. I bet a good law firm would have a field day with that.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:08 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Thats great to hear.

We require AMA but not club membership, if you don't join the club you don't have a key to the gate and its only open when a member is present but other than that we welcome and encourage guests and if you ever find yourself near Jacksonville we would love to have you hang out.
I fly at the clubs I visit as a guest under the reciprocal agreement between MAAC and the AMA. My Canadian membership and M.A.A.C. insurance covers me when in the US just as your AMA would if you visited Canada. If I am in the area I definitely would attempt to hook up with anyone flying that day. Sometimes I have been lucky enough to meet and fly with 5 clubs in one day. This summer I camped several times at a field overnight to awake to guys unloading for a morning flight. Even had one night where guys returned before dark with their own camping equipment and made a night of it even night flying. I tell you it doesn’t get any better than that. This year I am hoping to invest in a decent video camera so I can start recording some of this stuff and I can put it up on my Youtube Channel. If your interested https://www.youtube.com/user/Propwor...able_polymer=1

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Old 02-19-2018, 05:09 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
The actual allowing of the recreational activity what ever it is may be protected but I would bet dollars to donuts it would not preclude the land owner to be held in some way responsible if it was suspected the participants were acting in an irresponsible or reckless manner under permission of the land owner to engage in that recreational activity. So now you have a private non AMA site with guys flying with disregard for a recognized CBOs/AMA safety guidelines and someone, a spectator, child etc. sustains an injury. I bet a good law firm would have a field day with that.
HASN'T BEEN TESTED WITH MODEL AIRCRAFT/DRONE USE, BUT IT HAS BEEN TRIED IN HUNTING, ATV, OFFROAD MOTORCYCLE, AND 4 WHEEL DRIVE APPLICATIONS, AND THE INDEMNITY PORTION WAS UPHELD FOR THE LANDOWNER,
so far, the aero/drone folks have not done anything stupid enough to get a trial case. at least in Texas.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:22 PM
  #36  
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Just a matter of time....
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:15 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
HASN'T BEEN TESTED WITH MODEL AIRCRAFT/DRONE USE, BUT IT HAS BEEN TRIED IN HUNTING, ATV, OFFROAD MOTORCYCLE, AND 4 WHEEL DRIVE APPLICATIONS, AND THE INDEMNITY PORTION WAS UPHELD FOR THE LANDOWNER,
so far, the aero/drone folks have not done anything stupid enough to get a trial case. at least in Texas.
I imagine each case would be considered on its own merit. Heck any home owner/land owner carries insurance in case he, his family members or employees act in a irresponsible manner causing harm or injury to a third party. I still think a good lawyer would be all over it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.

This is taken from the Limitation of Land Owners Liability for Texas:

Sec. 75.002. LIABILITY LIMITED. (a) An owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land:

(1) does not owe a duty of care to a trespasser on the land; and

(2) is not liable for any injury to a trespasser on the land, except for wilful or wanton acts or gross negligence by the owner, lessee, or other occupant of agricultural land.

Sec. 75.004. LIMITATION ON MONETARY DAMAGES FOR PRIVATE LANDOWNERS. (a) Subject to Subsection (b), the liability of an owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land used for recreational purposes for an act or omission by the owner, lessee, or occupant relating to the premises that results in damages to a person who has entered the premises is limited to a maximum amount of $500,000 for each person and $1 million for each single occurrence of bodily injury or death and $100,000 for each single occurrence for injury to or destruction of property. In the case of agricultural land, the total liability of an owner, lessee, or occupant for a single occurrence is limited to $1 million, and the liability also is subject to the limits for each single occurrence of bodily injury or death and each single occurrence for injury to or destruction of property stated in this subsection.

As soon as any admission/fee is levied there may be a whole different set of circumstances.

Nuff said not my concern anyway.

Last edited by Propworn; 02-20-2018 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:40 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by tailskid View Post
Just a matter of time....
I like what you post. I wish all AMA clubs was friendly & think of being good to all !
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:49 AM
  #39  
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I have to be,.... in order to be in the club I want to be in. I have no problem with that,..... the club membership is very reasonable and it gives me a consistent, dedicated place to fly my planes. both membership are a small price to pay for the availability of a good place to fly, anytime I want. and there is usually always someone there flying on any weekend.
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Old 03-26-2018, 03:06 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by r ward View Post
I have to be,.... in order to be in the club I want to be in. I have no problem with that,..... the club membership is very reasonable and it gives me a consistent, dedicated place to fly my planes. both membership are a small price to pay for the availability of a good place to fly, anytime I want. and there is usually always someone there flying on any weekend.
Thank You for the response r ward , and welcome to RCU !

It's ironic , this poll is my creation , it's been bumped to the top every so often , and I'm still myself "flip flopping" on whether I want to vote "want to" or "have to" .

guess I shoulda included a "both" option , huh ?
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:18 PM
  #41  
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thank-you for the "welcome" ! i'll bet that,...."honestly",..... most people who are members, take the same position as I do. I recently started back into the hobby after not building or flying since I was a teen-ager. I am so new as a matter of fact that I am currently waiting for better weather to get with the club's instructor for some lessons. i'll admit I am not going to take for granted I can fly after all these years !. when you consider what a grown man has to loose to some kind of law suite, the cost of membership isn't worth considering not paying. when a kid, I and a few friends and their dad had permission to fly on one of several sod farms in southern Wisconsin...... talk about acres and acres to fly on, good smooth landing strips and nothing around for miles! I now live where there are nothing but corn fields and woods, so "an actual flying field" is a necessity,... a rarity and a luxury.....so i'll jump through the hoops with a smile on my face !. these days you can't do much of anything without incurring some kind of costs anyways. yes, you could say it either way,...." I have to because I want to",...or...,"I want to because I have to" !. both are valid !.
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Old 04-22-2018, 06:57 PM
  #42  
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I'm a member of AMA because I want to be but not quite as much as I used to want to be. I joined AMA back in 1969 when it was a voluntary organization that promoted the advancement and safety of building and flying model airplanes (before someone felt a need to change it to "model AVIATION"). Back then, when almost every senator and congressman grew up in the Boy Scouts, not a single one of them would have considered legislating the hobby. However, during the half a century since, the model aviation hobby has become much more complex. Besides the gigantic advancements in technology (which has been a great thing!), we now have to face the horrible possibility that the improved technology can enable almost anyone to use a model as a terrorist weapon! Therefore, the AMA now has to protect the hobby from those who would like to legislate it out of existence.

Unfortunately, while I'm STILL a member (I guess old habits are hard to break), I'm not so sure that the AMA is still out to promote the hobby as much as it now seems more focused on promoting itself. For example, when was the last time an issue of Model Aviation didn't start out with "Look what we've done for you since last month"?

Harvey

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Old 04-22-2018, 08:32 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
The actual allowing of the recreational activity what ever it is may be protected but I would bet dollars to donuts it would not preclude the land owner to be held in some way responsible if it was suspected the participants were acting in an irresponsible or reckless manner under permission of the land owner to engage in that recreational activity. So now you have a private non AMA site with guys flying with disregard for a recognized CBOs/AMA safety guidelines and someone, a spectator, child etc. sustains an injury. I bet a good law firm would have a field day with that.
Seems to me if the law in Texas really means what it says and is actually enforced there would be no way a law firm would have a field day, after all it's not the landowners responsibility to monitor how all
club member operate their models.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:20 PM
  #44  
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the purpose of the AMA is to establish a governing body responsible for the generation of rules that allow insurance companies to establish blame in a liable claim. as white washed as it is with all the camaraderie and such,....that is all it is for. I guess we should be thankful it exists,....without it and it's rules insurance companies would spend much more on litigation of a claim and all that would do is make our flying even more expensive .
there,....you want the bottom line,....you got it.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:25 PM
  #45  
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That maybe your view, but I see the purpose of establishing rules for competition events.....we do have 'events' don't we?
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:17 AM
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you don't need Federally funded Mandates and Statutes with Federally mandated compliance by the individual to establish rules of competition for a hobby sporting event, ......do you ?.. .....but,...... .. insurance companies do need them to reduce and/or eliminate ambiguity in liability litigation. wake up.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:30 AM
  #47  
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The AMA does a lot of things, establishing blame for liability isn't one of them.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:54 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by tailskid View Post
That maybe your view, but I see the purpose of establishing rules for competition events.....we do have 'events' don't we?
Seeing how the organization of competitive events happened far earlier in the AMA's history than the included with membership insurance did , I'd say your 100% correct .
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:30 PM
  #49  
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insurance, has long since overshadowed everything else.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:20 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
The AMA does a lot of things, establishing blame for liability isn't one of them.
where in that post did I say the AMA "establishes establishes blame for liability" ?. another one with no clue about how the insurance industry applies itself and attaches need to everyone's business....... wake up.
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