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Old 03-05-2018, 12:11 PM
  #1  
captinjohn
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Red face AMA rights

Does the AMA back up your rights to attend a fun -fly event just too watch? This club is North of Brooksville Florida & is having a pylon race soon. Also a Fun fly open tp the public. I only got a few weeks in Florida & then its back to Michigan. I have been to many RC events in several states & have never been treated so rude. They say I need to join their club to watch ! It would cost me $75 to join. Then I can watch the event. I have stopped there to buy some glow fuel from a member a few times & 2-3 members there run me off. I never ran into any guys like that in my 30 years of flying RC & have trained over 23 people to fly. Also helped many guys tune their RC engines. What is your AMA rights?????
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Old 03-05-2018, 01:04 PM
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I think not, but ask AMA. AFAIK, unless you are member of the club, you have no rights to be on the site except those you might be granted as guest.
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by captinjohn View Post
Does the AMA back up your rights to attend a fun -fly event just too watch? This club is North of Brooksville Florida & is having a pylon race soon. Also a Fun fly open tp the public. I only got a few weeks in Florida & then its back to Michigan. I have been to many RC events in several states & have never been treated so rude. They say I need to join their club to watch ! It would cost me $75 to join. Then I can watch the event. I have stopped there to buy some glow fuel from a member a few times & 2-3 members there run me off. I never ran into any guys like that in my 30 years of flying RC & have trained over 23 people to fly. Also helped many guys tune their RC engines. What is your AMA rights?????
I have no answer as to the gist of your question , which I take to be ;

"Does an AMA member have the right to be on the premises of any AMA affiliated club field , whether he/she is wanted there or not ?"

Now my gut feeling guess would be that no , you have no right to be anywhere your not wanted , whether AMA affiliated or not . Of course bear in mind that this is just a guess on my part , based on the fact that the AMA takes a more or less "hands off" approach to the running of clubs provided the club isn't running afoul of any AMA edicts , and my guess could very well be wrong .

But , whether my guess is right or wrong , my return question to you would be ;

"If the people at that club are SO unfriendly and unwelcoming , WHY would you want to spend any time or a single dime there , at a place where you're clearly not wanted ?"

Any club that is as unfriendly as you portray this one to be won't likely be a club for long , provided you actually are a total stranger to them and haven't tried previously to pull the "I'm an AMA member so I have the right to be here (or fly here) just on that basis , even though I'm not a member here" stunt with them , in which case the unfriendliness may well be targeted to you alone and not to the rest of the general population ....
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:42 PM
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I've never heard of that Captinjohn - can't even WATCH???? That doesn't sound like a club I would have anything to do with for sure. If you are in Phoenix, you are more than welcome to come, watch and of course fly (AMA required). We like to have potential club members fly with us for a month or two and then decide if they want to join.......that is unless you use up all the air and we can't fly

Jerry
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
(snipped)

Any club that is as unfriendly as you portray this one to be won't likely be a club for long , provided you actually are a total stranger to them and haven't tried previously to pull the "I'm an AMA member so I have the right to be here (or fly here) just on that basis , even though I'm not a member here" stunt with them , in which case the unfriendliness may well be targeted to you alone and not to the rest of the general population ....
Clubs in SoCal get this more than you might expect. Guy pulls in with trailer hitch on the front of the small car and plates from a northern state, campground time-share decals and such.... Somebody asks "do you know him?" and reply is either "duh" or "snowbird." Some may be accommodated early in the season, depending on personality and what they brought with them. Later in the season the welcome mat gets faded. AMA's marketing doesn't help: 'Fly at any of 2000 AMA chartered club flying sites!' or words to that effect.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by captinjohn View Post
Does the AMA back up your rights to attend a fun -fly event just too watch? This club is North of Brooksville Florida & is having a pylon race soon. Also a Fun fly open tp the public. I only got a few weeks in Florida & then its back to Michigan. I have been to many RC events in several states & have never been treated so rude. They say I need to join their club to watch ! It would cost me $75 to join. Then I can watch the event. I have stopped there to buy some glow fuel from a member a few times & 2-3 members there run me off. I never ran into any guys like that in my 30 years of flying RC & have trained over 23 people to fly. Also helped many guys tune their RC engines. What is your AMA rights?????
I'm disappointed to hear this, especially about a club in what was once my district.

If I were still VP I would pay them a visit and see how i was treated, if it were the same I would introduce myself and have a chat with the officers. As for forcing the club to do something, as someone said, clubs are autonomous but I would certainty let them know I would expect better public relations.

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Old 03-06-2018, 09:29 AM
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Well said Andy!
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
I'm disappointed to hear this, especially about a club in what was once my district.

If I were still VP I would pay them a visit and see how i was treated, if it were the same I would introduce myself and have a chat with the officers. As for forcing the club to do something, as someone said, clubs are autonomous but I would certainty let them know I would expect better public relations.
And AMA wonders why membership revenue is declining.

Why in the world would anyone WANT to join AMA when this is how they're treated by other AMA members? My Dad and I went to a club in Fresno on a Saturday around noon. Easily 20 people there. In the hour we stood there, NOT ONE person even came up and said hello. No "Welcome." No "Are you interested in model airplanes?"

While AMA members can be one of the organization's strong points, it's clear that AMA members can also be one of the organization's weakest points.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:37 AM
  #9  
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In this case , I really can't see where the AMA is at fault . The plain simple fact is that some folks are friendly and some are not . I can't imagine how loud the outcry would be if the AMA were to have some kind of "forced friendliness" edict , people should be friendly in all walks of life but there is no way your gonna force Oscar the grouch to be Mr. nice guy .
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:52 AM
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AMA gave it shot in 2009

LEADER TO LEADER

Membership Drive Reaction
by Jim Rice, Chairman Leader Member Committee

As I write this, it is a week before Christmas and the final membership numbers for 2009 are fresh in my mind ... Depressing but still in my mind. We had a membership drive. A well-thought-out, but poorly executed drive. The leg work was done at the HQ level and the advertising was done in Model Aviation and by word of mouth via most of the District VPs.
Yet at the grass roots level, where the newbie meets the member, it didn’t happen very well; seemingly no interest in the growth of the membership by the average modeler or club.
























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Old 03-06-2018, 12:06 PM
  #11  
init4fun
 
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If I recall we even had some kind of "sign three and you fly free" promotion where signing up three new members gets you your year's dues free . I haven't heard much about the success or failure of that program or even if it's still ongoing ?
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:08 PM
  #12  
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It's still on-going.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:15 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
It's still on-going.
Thank You Andy .

Now , if you have some kind of "AMA Magic Wand" that'll turn grouches into Mr. nice guy this would be the time to wave it .....
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
In this case , I really can't see where the AMA is at fault . The plain simple fact is that some folks are friendly and some are not . I can't imagine how loud the outcry would be if the AMA were to have some kind of "forced friendliness" edict , people should be friendly in all walks of life but there is no way your gonna force Oscar the grouch to be Mr. nice guy .
I don't blame AMA per se, but rather point out that they have a substantial interest in these events. When they go like as described by the OP, and like my experience with the Fresno club, it creates a memorable negative impression. That can hardly bode well for membership, either in the club or in the AMA.

When your membership revenue is declining, an organization can ill afford to have these kinds of first impressions. Now, what they do about it? That's for the "pretty smart" folks on the EC to figure out.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
It's still on-going.
AMA wide, any feedback for members on how the program performed?
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:57 PM
  #16  
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Call the AMA at (800) 435-9262 - 1-800-I-FLY-AMA

For more information about this program, contact the membership@modelaircraft.org.

2017 Recruiters

Check out all of the members who have taken advantage of the "Sign 3 Fly Free" program.
DAVID D STORER, FT LAUDERDALE FL
JOHN A CURTIS, ROCKFORD IL
RICHARD C MCCASKILL, FREDERICK CO
ANTHONY KOSTANKO, VIRGINIA MN
THOMAS ANDERSEN, YODER CO
DAN K COMPTON, BATAVIA IL
SETH B STERLING, BOYNTON BEACH FL
TERRY FOOTE, CONROE TX
KENNETH KEHLET, OKLAHOMA CITY OK
VICTOR L TYBER, SAFETY HARBOR FL
CHARLES W MEREDITH JR, BOWLING GREEN KY
D SCOTT STRIMPLE, GLEN ALLEN VA
BLOIS L PROSSER, STATESBORO GA
FRED M BRIGGS IV, ASHBURN VA
STANLEY ZDON, COON RAPIDS MN
DAVID L ENGEL, MORROW OH
JOHN W MARTIN, FOUNTAIN INN SC
DANA D LAKEMAN, MESQUITE NV
ROBBY J SAWYER, KINGMAN AZ
PAUL J MEYERS, NEW FRANKEN WI
WILLIAM J ROZNIEWSKI, LONG BEACH CA
BILLY J CLEMONS, SMYRNA TN
NICK S BARTER, WALLINGTON NJ
JOE SCHWALLER, MENIFEE CA
DENNIS D DELISLE, MILFORD NH
ERIC WILSON, COLUMBUS IN
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:35 PM
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78 recruits, at a "cost" of 26 free memberships, for a net increase of 58.

Impressive.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:06 PM
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yeah, even when i was in a club and doing the meet and greet thing with nubies, i never took advantage of the sign 3 and... program, juist seemed to be a great way to loose revenue to me. probably signed up 50-75 new folk in that time.

mongo
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:52 PM
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Every AMA member should be actively attracting and advocating for new members.....not for a free membership, but because we love, are passionate about and believe in our hobby. Problem is, our leadership is making it hard for me to advocate to new folks to join. If the AMA leadership was actively engaged with, and brought value to being a member, they would not have to bribe folks to go sign new recruits, it would happen organically.
Another (early) sign of desperation, yet no major changes on how they operate.

SAD

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Old 03-07-2018, 03:23 AM
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Our field is privately owned and leased by the club. Access to the property is by membership and the public is welcome, but they have no "rights" as far as access is concerned. The club, and it's members have contractual rights of access, not the general public.

There are several flying fields around Kansas City that are on public ground, city parks, etc. The general public has complete access to the facilities as long as they comply with the safety rules, etc.

In the past, I have flown at closed fields that are by invitation only, and as the name indicates, are open only to invitees.

As to which case applies to the OP, there are not enough facts present to make an accurate determination. In any event, the AMA really has no jurisdiction in all cases as they don't own the land, and that is the real issue.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Every AMA member should be actively attracting and advocating for new members.....not for a free membership, but because we love, are passionate about and believe in our hobby. Problem is, our leadership is making it hard for me to advocate to new folks to join. If the AMA leadership was actively engaged with, and brought value to being a member, they would not have to bribe folks to go sign new recruits, it would happen organically.
Another (early) sign of desperation, yet no major changes on how they operate.

SAD

Astro
It's tough to justify. Just look at the minutes from the October 2017 EC meeting & the indoor flying site. Ample discussion early on that there's a lot of special (read expensive) requirements, and uncertain ability to break even. They table it. Then later, it comes up again and they form a committee to figure out how they can do it. But when your total revenue is declining, your membership revenue is declining, and your charter club fees are declining, does it make sense to put effort into the indoor site? Maybe they should form committees to work total revenue, membership revenue, and charter club fees. But they're not. That's where I see leadership failing ... focusing on the wrong thing.

Another major point the EC is missing is this one: If people don't perceive value in the $75 fee, they won't spend it. Maybe the EC should figure out why people don't see AMA as worth the money?

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Old 03-07-2018, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Another major point the EC is missing is this one: If people don't perceive value in the $75 fee, they won't spend it. Maybe the EC should figure out why people don't see AMA as worth the money?
IMO, that is where the AMA leadership should focus their efforts FIRST. Instead, they use the monthly magazine to publicly berate the members that are asking the tough questions.

Astro
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
IMO, that is where the AMA leadership should focus their efforts FIRST. Instead, they use the monthly magazine to publicly berate the members that are asking the tough questions.

Astro
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not on their Christmas card lists. But that doesn't mean the questions I'm asking about financial trends and their plans to correct them should be ignored. In a way, that's more troubling ... that they don't feel any accountability to members. Even Rich's proposal at the July 2017 EC meeting to hold the January EC meeting in Muncie instead of AMA West. What's the effect of that? It makes it less likely that members are there to participate. That proposal should concern folks.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not on their Christmas card lists. But that doesn't mean the questions I'm asking about financial trends and their plans to correct them should be ignored. In a way, that's more troubling ... that they don't feel any accountability to members. Even Rich's proposal at the July 2017 EC meeting to hold the January EC meeting in Muncie instead of AMA West. What's the effect of that? It makes it less likely that members are there to participate. That proposal should concern folks.
Probably get more support for the indoor flying site in Muncie, than on the West Coast!

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Old 03-07-2018, 06:29 AM
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I've been to the EC meeting at Expo.

1. Its probably cheaper to have it in Muncie vs flying everyone to the west coast. (which would in most cases make you happy)
2. It's held on Monday, there were very few if any external guests there, less than they had at meetings I attended in Muncie.
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