The Poop has hit the fan !
10-18-2018, 12:12 PM
#126
Banned
Hi Speed ,
As it stands now the FAA's language is direct and to the point with no wiggle room , all hobby S/UAS are to not exceed 400 feet . If the AMA can get us members a CBO only exemption from that then that's great ! That will be the first crack in the 400 foot monster's armor . I do believe there then would be a court challenge from some non CBO members (Something akin to Taylor VS FAA comes to mind) and hopefully maybe a bit more of the 400 foot monster will perish . My biggest fear ? Truthfully , I honestly believe that the companies who want to have drone delivery services have already cut their deal with the FAA to have us out of the way of their commerce , and that the 400 foot limit will ultimately strangle what's left of "Traditional RC flying" .
Big money ALWAYS wins ......
As it stands now the FAA's language is direct and to the point with no wiggle room , all hobby S/UAS are to not exceed 400 feet . If the AMA can get us members a CBO only exemption from that then that's great ! That will be the first crack in the 400 foot monster's armor . I do believe there then would be a court challenge from some non CBO members (Something akin to Taylor VS FAA comes to mind) and hopefully maybe a bit more of the 400 foot monster will perish . My biggest fear ? Truthfully , I honestly believe that the companies who want to have drone delivery services have already cut their deal with the FAA to have us out of the way of their commerce , and that the 400 foot limit will ultimately strangle what's left of "Traditional RC flying" .
Big money ALWAYS wins ......The AMA continues to attempt to acquire a hook of some sort to force membership. Ain't gonna happen! Muncie is going to have to actually sit down and do some work to put some value other than the Good 'Ol Boys Club into the AMA. And offer up something everyone needs or wants.
10-18-2018, 12:24 PM
#127
The war against the 400 foot limit will not be a simple one battle affair .....
10-18-2018, 12:43 PM
#129
In order to accommodate all AMA events as they are done now we would need a 1,500 ‘ limit. Most events could be modified to fly lower except soaring. That’s why I really see no real harm for CBO members getting an exemption. Have CBO membership require a test and call it a license. Legal issue gone. Pay for play is no new thing. Fishing, hunting, driving, full scale flying all are illegal without a license why should model flying be any different?
10-18-2018, 10:05 PM
#138
Except such an exception would be found Unconstitutional. It is unconstitutional to grant special privileges to members of a private group based only on that membership. It would be like AAA Members being allowed to legally drive at any speed they desire on any road.
The AMA continues to attempt to acquire a hook of some sort to force membership. Ain't gonna happen! Muncie is going to have to actually sit down and do some work to put some value other than the Good 'Ol Boys Club into the AMA. And offer up something everyone needs or wants.
The AMA continues to attempt to acquire a hook of some sort to force membership. Ain't gonna happen! Muncie is going to have to actually sit down and do some work to put some value other than the Good 'Ol Boys Club into the AMA. And offer up something everyone needs or wants.
10-19-2018, 12:45 AM
#139
I can't help but note that "fishing, hunting, driving," and "full scale flying" all require licenses, GOVERNMENT issued licenses. Not one of those comes from a private dues collecting organization.
10-19-2018, 12:49 AM
#140
Yep. Spot on. AMA followed a #ResistEverything approach. No compromise. In short, they played hardball with the FAA and the rest of the aviation industry. And we see how that turned out.
10-19-2018, 04:19 AM
#141
Banned
Anyone who really wants to know how things went on Capital Hill, needs to have a one on one off the record sit down with their Representative to discuss Drones, the AMA and related issues. You will be surprised as to how the AMA is viewed in DC. An Ice Cube in Heck had a better chance IMHO.
10-19-2018, 06:08 AM
#142
That's because folks here generally tend to keep same topic discussion to the thread that originated the topic . Since "The poop has hit the fan" and "So , has the world ended yet" are both a discussion of the effect of the recent passage of HR 302 on our hobby , you have started a duplicate thread and duplicates of well established threads are usually pretty much resoundingly ignored . I know you haven't been around here very long (according to your join date , Nov. 2017) but back when the Moderators were far more active here duplicate threads were generally just deleted outright .....
Last edited by init4fun; 10-19-2018 at 06:14 AM.
10-19-2018, 06:24 AM
#143
What exactly drives this perceived "need?"
I have a real problem with it. From a Constitutional perspective, you cannot have two classes of citizens, with different privileges, based solely upon membership in a private dues collecting organization.
I can't help but note that "fishing, hunting, driving," and "full scale flying" all require licenses, GOVERNMENT issued licenses. Not one of those comes from a private dues collecting organization.
I have a real problem with it. From a Constitutional perspective, you cannot have two classes of citizens, with different privileges, based solely upon membership in a private dues collecting organization.
I can't help but note that "fishing, hunting, driving," and "full scale flying" all require licenses, GOVERNMENT issued licenses. Not one of those comes from a private dues collecting organization.
Well in all honesty, nobody " needs " to fly model airplanes at all. However is you were to look at any of the current pattern or IMAC aerobatic sequences you can easily see that there is no way they can be flown while staying below 400'. Yes the sequences can be modified however that would put us on a completely differnt playing field then the rest of the world to the point where the US would never be able to field another US F3A team again. Not a big deal to most but where does it stop?
Hunting and fishing license, do you go to a government office to obtain one? Is there any test required? Maybe for hunting. No you go to a STORE who sells you the license and makes a profit .
10-19-2018, 06:28 AM
#144
Agreed, but they have much much larger participation. Like I have been saying all along strength in numbers. If AMA had 2 million members as opposed to 180K I would bet they dues would be lower and they would have a bigger voice on the hill. Some people are very aware of this scenario and that is why their goal is to discourage AMA membership both here and on RCG.
10-19-2018, 06:57 AM
#145
Banned
Franklin , my biggest fear in all this (outside of the 400 absolute limit) ?... My biggest AMA concerned fear is that the FAA recognizes the Constitutional difficulties you and others mention , and contracts the AMA to administer all hobby related S/UAS operations . With the AMA as a contractor of the U.S. government (FAA) the Constitutional challenge evaporates , hobby based S/UAS operations are not the FAA's day to day responsibility anymore , and the AMA finally gets that mandated by law forced membership it's wanted since the beginning of all this S/UAS business . A simple "burying of the hatchet" between AMA and FAA , and a yearly percentage of AMA money becoming FAA money , is all it'd take for something as far fetched to become reality .
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And from my conversations with my Congressman, no chance of the AMA being anything other than another CBO.
10-19-2018, 09:02 AM
#146
As of right now your kid has a much reduced rate then 75.00. In your scenario he would also not have a need for a 400’ exemption. So not quite the issue you state. Just as Walmart sells a fishing license and Fish and game enforces, AMA can sell R/C license to fly at sanctioned sites with 400’ limit waived and FAA to enforce. If you don’t have a requirement to fly above 400’ then no need for the license. After all I’m fairly certain all this is simply a tool for the FAA to prosecute if and when an incident occurs.
10-19-2018, 10:36 AM
#147
Why would the FAA wish to contract with the AMA? The AMA does not have a way to enforce anything. Do we really want a system in place where people can end up in prison for flying a model aircraft without being a AMA
member? If we go down the path of AMA members get to do thing that other modelers caint this is where we could be headed.
member? If we go down the path of AMA members get to do thing that other modelers caint this is where we could be headed.
10-19-2018, 11:02 AM
#149
Why would the FAA wish to contract with the AMA? The AMA does not have a way to enforce anything. Do we really want a system in place where people can end up in prison for flying a model aircraft without being a AMA
member? If we go down the path of AMA members get to do thing that other modelers caint this is where we could be headed.
member? If we go down the path of AMA members get to do thing that other modelers caint this is where we could be headed.
AMA clubs have board of directors that do include safety officers. Infractions are discussed and the board my vote on appropriate actions. If serious enough the club can inform AMA and that persons AMA can be revoked. Yes there are offenders that get away with things but keep it in perspective, not all speeders on the freeway get popped. There have always been groups that have a higher set of rights then others. I will stick to my fishing example. Without a license it is illegal to fish and then only the fish you are licensed for and when and where you are told you can fish. I really see no difference here.
Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 10-19-2018 at 11:07 AM.
10-19-2018, 11:09 AM
#150
AMA clubs have board of directors that do include safety officers. Infractions are discussed and the board my vote on appropriate actions. If serious enough the club can inform AMA and that persons AMA can be revoked. Yes there are offenders that get away with things but keep it in perspective, not all speeders on the freeway get popped.