2019 AMA sticker
11-15-2018, 05:28 PM
#3
You missed the point entirely , no bash , "I sure hope so" meaning just that , it's AMA to the rescue or the hobby is doomed .....
11-15-2018, 05:55 PM
#5
I like the use of the word "safeguarding" because it sounds quite proactively defensive . We need all the defense we can get .
11-15-2018, 06:08 PM
#6
Yes, I have been thinking about what to do if this 400' altitude limit gets enforced a few years down the road. Obviously my sailplanes won't be much good. The few power airplanes I have will get flown in a different manner, all competition will be over and honestly I have maybe another 5 years of being semi competitive. I'm thinking of collecting a hanger of flyable vintage helicopters wouldn't be a bad thing.
11-16-2018, 04:41 AM
#7
Banned
Amen to that . Right now the AMA is the only thing standing between us and finding a new hobby , and I'm too damned old to be finding any new hobbies , I'm perfectly fine with the ones I've got now .
I like the use of the word "safeguarding" because it sounds quite proactively defensive . We need all the defense we can get .
I like the use of the word "safeguarding" because it sounds quite proactively defensive . We need all the defense we can get .
11-16-2018, 07:48 AM
#8
You know it's kinda funny. I had a feeling that regardless of the original intent of the thread that eventually it would turn into a bash thread. The funny thing is that from what I can tell is that all this hatred towards the AMA pretty much stops at cyberspace. In the real world and outside certain people's sandboxes ( RCU and RCG ) my fellow R/C aircraft enthusiasts have an entirely different Veiw of the AMA and what it represents to our hobby. At the end of the day, I really shouldn't care so much about what someone on a revengeful crusade and a handful of his minions have to say. The fact that the leader of the group has stooped to outright lies to sway people to his viewpoint should enlighten intelligent people to figure out he is not the all powerful OZ but simply a man behind a curtain with an agenda. Everyone have a safe Holliday and enjoy your loved ones.
11-16-2018, 04:09 PM
#9
Personally to me it comes across as a day late and a dollar short. The time for such a statement on the sticker, and elsewhere, was over 10 years ago when this whole mess started. But today it looks more like damage control because the AMA knows their rep as the modelers advocate has taken a major hit through all this.
11-17-2018, 05:55 AM
#10
Banned
Actually , in my opinion the beginnings of all this was June 9 1981 , the date the FAA published Advisory Circular 91-57 . I know I've said this before but I do believe the FAA's intent at that time was that we were not to exceed 400 feet AGL , and I believe the FAA thought we were being faithful to A/C 91-57 all these years . So tell me , and this is not a taunt but a serious question ; What in your opinion should the AMA do or should have done , beyond distancing us from the flying camera crowd , that could/would have gotten the FAA to let go of the 400 foot monster looming over our hobby ?
In the end they might not have been able to do anything. But from where I sit, they avoided contact with the government at every turn.
First mistake IMHO was to relocate HQ to Muncie. This took them totally out of the DC Loop. Having lived in the area for 29 years to include working in DC for a number of those years, I have seen up close and first hand what it takes to get and hold the governments attention. And the AMA still doesn't have it. But it appears the MR crowd does.
I know for a fact that following the move a number of AMA members living in the DC area volunteered to help establish and maintain contact with the government. To my knowledge the AMA never took anyone up on their offer. One individual had been the college roommate and good friend of a very powerful Virginia Senator. He could have provided tremendous help. But him, like his club were ignored by Muncie.
Simply put, rather than build some kind of monument to toy airplanes, the AMA should have put the Muncie money to work lobbying in DC. They knew nothing about lobbying when all this started. IMO they still know very little today. Relying instead on the low bid lobbyist to do it for them. You get what you pay for.
Which brings us to another point. Such efforts don't come cheap. So who here would have paid twice their normal dues knowing the second half was going directly to lobbying efforts? I'd be willing to bet 75% of the membership would refuse and at least 15% would leave the AMA as a result. To include a number of clubs. 1981 was after all just before the tart of Sport Flyers (SFA). And how much money did the AMA blow on that legal fiasco that could have been directed to more productive things?
But of course I know have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight. Regardless of the fact that at the time I wrote numerous letters to the AMA voicing my opposition to many of their decisions of the time.
The AMA is a business. It should be run like a business.
Last edited by Appowner; 11-17-2018 at 05:58 AM.
11-18-2018, 12:40 AM
#11
Personally to me it comes across as a day late and a dollar short. The time for such a statement on the sticker, and elsewhere, was over 10 years ago when this whole mess started. But today it looks more like damage control because the AMA knows their rep as the modelers advocate has taken a major hit through all this.
11-18-2018, 12:42 AM
#12
11-18-2018, 12:46 AM
#13
You know it's kinda funny. I had a feeling that regardless of the original intent of the thread that eventually it would turn into a bash thread. The funny thing is that from what I can tell is that all this hatred towards the AMA pretty much stops at cyberspace. In the real world and outside certain people's sandboxes ( RCU and RCG ) my fellow R/C aircraft enthusiasts have an entirely different Veiw of the AMA and what it represents to our hobby. At the end of the day, I really shouldn't care so much about what someone on a revengeful crusade and a handful of his minions have to say. The fact that the leader of the group has stooped to outright lies to sway people to his viewpoint should enlighten intelligent people to figure out he is not the all powerful OZ but simply a man behind a curtain with an agenda. Everyone have a safe Holliday and enjoy your loved ones.
11-18-2018, 04:22 AM
#15
Banned
11-18-2018, 05:09 AM
#16
Messaging Post: I can show months of blog entries that were positive. That is a fact and not speculation. Therefore that post is anything but “NOTHING but speculation (emphasis added).”
Bake Sale Post: That post contains reference to comments in AMA EC minutes. Those comments are factual, and not speculation. The bake sale comment is opinion. Therefore that post is anything but “NOTHING but speculation (emphasis added).”
Browns Post: That post is opinion related to impact of tribal thinking (homogeneous). That is not speculation, because the post was constructed as a hypothetical followed by a rhetorical question. As neither is speculation, your statement that it contains “NOTHING but speculation” is also false.
11-19-2018, 05:00 AM
#18
Banned
Exactly. AMA seems to say they're doing something is as good as actually doing it. For months preceding the FAA bill they messaged how well things were going. I can't prove it of course, but I think it's because they either can't read the signals they're getting from staff or they're reading them, but deciding to forward another message to members.
But what interests me is the general gullibility displayed by the membership. You see more and more members regarding Muncie as some kind of sacred cow leading the charge. And when presented with hard facts, they turn a blind eye and directly attack the messengers. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Not to mention immature. But in a way they demonstrate the same attitudes towards the AMA that many, many people demonstrate towards the nation. Especially on voting day when they sit at home.
As has been said many times in many places, the AMA simply does not offer me any value. And just like there are corporations out there whose stock I wouldn't own, I won't join the AMA for the same reasons. No benefit in it for me.
11-19-2018, 06:01 AM
#19
I believe the membership has been sold a bill of goods on this and a number of other issues. I believe the entire Muncie staff and EC has failed the membership and has been doing so for years. The web site suggests great things (when it works) but the staff is short on producing. I believe there is a culture among the staff and past/present EC that has only their best interests in mind. A culture that says basically "what's good for Muncie is good for All."
But what interests me is the general gullibility displayed by the membership. You see more and more members regarding Muncie as some kind of sacred cow leading the charge. And when presented with hard facts, they turn a blind eye and directly attack the messengers. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Not to mention immature. But in a way they demonstrate the same attitudes towards the AMA that many, many people demonstrate towards the nation. Especially on voting day when they sit at home.
As has been said many times in many places, the AMA simply does not offer me any value. And just like there are corporations out there whose stock I wouldn't own, I won't join the AMA for the same reasons. No benefit in it for me.
But what interests me is the general gullibility displayed by the membership. You see more and more members regarding Muncie as some kind of sacred cow leading the charge. And when presented with hard facts, they turn a blind eye and directly attack the messengers. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Not to mention immature. But in a way they demonstrate the same attitudes towards the AMA that many, many people demonstrate towards the nation. Especially on voting day when they sit at home.
As has been said many times in many places, the AMA simply does not offer me any value. And just like there are corporations out there whose stock I wouldn't own, I won't join the AMA for the same reasons. No benefit in it for me.
Last edited by fliers1; 11-19-2018 at 07:01 AM.
11-21-2018, 10:17 AM
#20
I don't think the AMA saw the writing on the wall, just Jim Rice. I do feel that he was spot on as to the issues that were rearing their heads back when he wrote his paper. He specifically pointed out the following, which I am paraphrasing for simplicity:
That said, I see some of these same things happening in the R/C scale hydroplane club I'm a member of. We have cliques, old timers that try to run the club even though they may not be officers, running off possible new members, etc. I see this, as well, in my other hobby, that being square and round dancing. New dancers are treated like children rather than as adults, cliques form that won't associate with others, belittling of those that don't dance at the same level as others, etc. Sound like the same things Jim wrote 11 year ago?
- Fees are too high
- Club meetings rehash the same things over and over
- CLIQUES
- Old timers running off anyone that disagrees with them
- Bad behavior/language at the field
- Officers/instructors that belittle others rather than helping them
- Not welcoming spectators
- Not holding events that anyone can participate in
- ARGUMENTATIVE POSTS IN ONLINE FORUMS
- Running off people that don't fly what old timers do
- Blah newsletters
That said, I see some of these same things happening in the R/C scale hydroplane club I'm a member of. We have cliques, old timers that try to run the club even though they may not be officers, running off possible new members, etc. I see this, as well, in my other hobby, that being square and round dancing. New dancers are treated like children rather than as adults, cliques form that won't associate with others, belittling of those that don't dance at the same level as others, etc. Sound like the same things Jim wrote 11 year ago?
11-21-2018, 10:33 AM
#21
Banned
I don't think the AMA saw the writing on the wall, just Jim Rice. I do feel that he was spot on as to the issues that were rearing their heads back when he wrote his paper. He specifically pointed out the following, which I am paraphrasing for simplicity:
That said, I see some of these same things happening in the R/C scale hydroplane club I'm a member of. We have cliques, old timers that try to run the club even though they may not be officers, running off possible new members, etc. I see this, as well, in my other hobby, that being square and round dancing. New dancers are treated like children rather than as adults, cliques form that won't associate with others, belittling of those that don't dance at the same level as others, etc. Sound like the same things Jim wrote 11 year ago?
- Fees are too high
- Club meetings rehash the same things over and over
- CLIQUES
- Old timers running off anyone that disagrees with them
- Bad behavior/language at the field
- Officers/instructors that belittle others rather than helping them
- Not welcoming spectators
- Not holding events that anyone can participate in
- ARGUMENTATIVE POSTS IN ONLINE FORUMS
- Running off people that don't fly what old timers do
- Blah newsletters
That said, I see some of these same things happening in the R/C scale hydroplane club I'm a member of. We have cliques, old timers that try to run the club even though they may not be officers, running off possible new members, etc. I see this, as well, in my other hobby, that being square and round dancing. New dancers are treated like children rather than as adults, cliques form that won't associate with others, belittling of those that don't dance at the same level as others, etc. Sound like the same things Jim wrote 11 year ago?
Let's face it, we modelers are real SoBs.
11-21-2018, 01:29 PM
#22
11-21-2018, 06:07 PM
#24
youtube.com/watch?v=VW5TWYbg MGQ
Remove the space between the www. and youtube to see the scene
Last edited by flyboy2610; 11-21-2018 at 06:10 PM.
11-22-2018, 04:00 AM
#25
Banned
https://www.
youtube.com/watch?v=VW5TWYbg MGQ
Remove the space between the www. and youtube to see the scene
youtube.com/watch?v=VW5TWYbg MGQ
Remove the space between the www. and youtube to see the scene
Русский сукин сын
