Everything I enjoy about the hobby is crumbling.
01-16-2019, 05:07 AM
#76
Banned
I'd be curious to see the work records (resume) of these guys. Just how much business management experience do they have AND how successful were they at their jobs? Could be an eye opener.
01-25-2019, 01:04 AM
#77
I've been wondering. On the back of my mind, I think about a company that used to make RC kits. They were very prominent in the hobby in decades past, but from what I remember, the company had left the hobby business and is now only involved in the commercial and government drone industries. Can anybody tell me which company this would be?
01-25-2019, 12:15 PM
#78
My Feedback: (243)
You may be thinking of Byron Originals. I don't recall the name of the company that purchased the rights and remaining inventory but they did little with it. They were already involved with government contracts so models fell by the way. Certainly more endless profit on the Department of Defense teat.
01-25-2019, 12:45 PM
#79
You may be thinking of Byron Originals. I don't recall the name of the company that purchased the rights and remaining inventory but they did little with it. They were already involved with government contracts so models fell by the way. Certainly more endless profit on the Department of Defense teat.
01-26-2019, 08:23 AM
#81
Banned
I believe the driving force for the models was the owner, Byron Godbersen. It was his millionaire retirement project. But he passed away in 2003 so I suspect the heirs to the company weren't interested in models.
Iron Bay that originally bought Byron (and others) I believe was originally in Michigan's upper peninsula. At Iron Bay. But now I see they're in PA suggesting yet another business sold and left on the vine.
Iron Bay that originally bought Byron (and others) I believe was originally in Michigan's upper peninsula. At Iron Bay. But now I see they're in PA suggesting yet another business sold and left on the vine.
01-30-2019, 03:26 PM
#82
My Feedback: (243)
After Mr. Godbersen's passing the family shut down the model manufacturing business as it was not as profitable, if at all, as their other family businesses and like most siblings had absolutely no interest in it. They did keep the fuel operation active as it is pretty much an automated blending and packaging operation. Low overhead and good profit make it a stable investment.
The kits pop up occasionally on auction and classified sites often at premium prices. However there are good deal to be had especially at face to face swap meets. Picked up a Byron Pitts Special kit recently for $90.00 and it is in my someday build queue.
I met a fellow north of me who has 30 or 40 NIB Byron kits stored in a trailer on his sod farm. He will occasionally list one on ebay but starting bid is pretty high. Saw his stash, just stood there and drooled!
The kits pop up occasionally on auction and classified sites often at premium prices. However there are good deal to be had especially at face to face swap meets. Picked up a Byron Pitts Special kit recently for $90.00 and it is in my someday build queue.
I met a fellow north of me who has 30 or 40 NIB Byron kits stored in a trailer on his sod farm. He will occasionally list one on ebay but starting bid is pretty high. Saw his stash, just stood there and drooled!
02-01-2019, 09:21 AM
#83
The committee would like Council to approve the following recommendations:1. Develop a Mobile Friendly Experience to allow new members, renewing members, hobby shop owners, SIGs, etc. a quick and user friendly path to AMA membership. A receipt will be provided electronically which will provide the name, address, and AMA number to the new member. Deadline January 2.
2. Increase the new membership reimbursement which matches other incentive rates. (This would be for hobby shops, distributor partners) Open from $8.00 to $25.00; Senior from $6.00 to $21.00; Park Pilot from $4.00 to $12.00 and 3 month trial $6.00. (This helps to pay for their time in the acquisition.)
3. Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after.
Tougas felt distributors have not supported AMA in the amount of effort and financial expenditure we have made on their behalf. Should we be asking them to market on our behalf without compensating them? AMA does a lot of work which benefits them directly and they should be contributing [financially] to help us. Some felt the reimbursement rates were high for the distributor partners; Fitch sees this as an incentive for them to do more for AMA. Mathewson stated Tougas is not wrong in his opinion that the industry is not stepping up and supporting this organization in the work that we have done for the entire aeromodeling community. He suggested AMA go to them more forcefully and tell them we need their support and financial support in helping to advocate for everyone, including them because they have a vested interest in this entire issue.
2. Increase the new membership reimbursement which matches other incentive rates. (This would be for hobby shops, distributor partners) Open from $8.00 to $25.00; Senior from $6.00 to $21.00; Park Pilot from $4.00 to $12.00 and 3 month trial $6.00. (This helps to pay for their time in the acquisition.)
3. Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after.
Tougas felt distributors have not supported AMA in the amount of effort and financial expenditure we have made on their behalf. Should we be asking them to market on our behalf without compensating them? AMA does a lot of work which benefits them directly and they should be contributing [financially] to help us. Some felt the reimbursement rates were high for the distributor partners; Fitch sees this as an incentive for them to do more for AMA. Mathewson stated Tougas is not wrong in his opinion that the industry is not stepping up and supporting this organization in the work that we have done for the entire aeromodeling community. He suggested AMA go to them more forcefully and tell them we need their support and financial support in helping to advocate for everyone, including them because they have a vested interest in this entire issue.
02-01-2019, 01:23 PM
#84
The committee would like Council to approve the following recommendations:1. Develop a Mobile Friendly Experience to allow new members, renewing members, hobby shop owners, SIGs, etc. a quick and user friendly path to AMA membership. A receipt will be provided electronically which will provide the name, address, and AMA number to the new member. Deadline January 2.
2. Increase the new membership reimbursement which matches other incentive rates. (This would be for hobby shops, distributor partners) Open from $8.00 to $25.00; Senior from $6.00 to $21.00; Park Pilot from $4.00 to $12.00 and 3 month trial $6.00. (This helps to pay for their time in the acquisition.)
3. Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after.
Tougas felt distributors have not supported AMA in the amount of effort and financial expenditure we have made on their behalf. Should we be asking them to market on our behalf without compensating them? AMA does a lot of work which benefits them directly and they should be contributing [financially] to help us. Some felt the reimbursement rates were high for the distributor partners; Fitch sees this as an incentive for them to do more for AMA. Mathewson stated Tougas is not wrong in his opinion that the industry is not stepping up and supporting this organization in the work that we have done for the entire aeromodeling community. He suggested AMA go to them more forcefully and tell them we need their support and financial support in helping to advocate for everyone, including them because they have a vested interest in this entire issue.
2. Increase the new membership reimbursement which matches other incentive rates. (This would be for hobby shops, distributor partners) Open from $8.00 to $25.00; Senior from $6.00 to $21.00; Park Pilot from $4.00 to $12.00 and 3 month trial $6.00. (This helps to pay for their time in the acquisition.)
3. Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after.
Tougas felt distributors have not supported AMA in the amount of effort and financial expenditure we have made on their behalf. Should we be asking them to market on our behalf without compensating them? AMA does a lot of work which benefits them directly and they should be contributing [financially] to help us. Some felt the reimbursement rates were high for the distributor partners; Fitch sees this as an incentive for them to do more for AMA. Mathewson stated Tougas is not wrong in his opinion that the industry is not stepping up and supporting this organization in the work that we have done for the entire aeromodeling community. He suggested AMA go to them more forcefully and tell them we need their support and financial support in helping to advocate for everyone, including them because they have a vested interest in this entire issue.
1) The hobby shops have to pay their staffs for hours worked, just like any other business. To expect the hobby shops to be AMA recruiters as well as sign up points for new AMA members takes the hobby shop staff members away from doing their other necessary work(i.e. restocking shelves, ringing up purchases, assisting customers with possible purchases and repair of hobby items) that keeps the hobby shop in business
2) Offering to reimburse the hobby shops $4 to $25 to offset the costs of recruiting and basically selling AMA memberships just makes the required book keeping that much harder for the hobby shop managers that handle the books. It also doesn't take into account the added income taxes the shops are required to pay, along with taxes on standing inventory that the shop will be billed for at the end of the year.
3) Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after. How much is this going to cost the retailer since the retailer has to either store these coupons or pay to add it to the receipts they print since the receipt will require more paper, increasing costs. It will also put the retailer in a bad position since most customers ARE NOT going to be willing to just give out their email address, especially if they know it's going to be forwarded to another organization. Also, what is considered a "model aircraft product"? Are we talking:
- foam planes
- balsa stick gliders
- electric motors and ESCs
- plywood, basswood and balsa
- aircraft kits(either static display, free flight or R/C, when you can find them)
- propellers(considering there are variations for electric, rubber and IC powered aircraft, as well as boats)
- radio gear
- batteries
- paint
- adhesives
- Exacto knives and other hand tools
- hobby sized power tools
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 02-01-2019 at 01:27 PM.
02-03-2019, 06:58 AM
#85
I'm going to play "Devil's Advocate" here for a bit and explain why Mathewson and Tougas are not in touch with reality in this:
1) The hobby shops have to pay their staffs for hours worked, just like any other business. To expect the hobby shops to be AMA recruiters as well as sign up points for new AMA members takes the hobby shop staff members away from doing their other necessary work(i.e. restocking shelves, ringing up purchases, assisting customers with possible purchases and repair of hobby items) that keeps the hobby shop in business
2) Offering to reimburse the hobby shops $4 to $25 to offset the costs of recruiting and basically selling AMA memberships just makes the required book keeping that much harder for the hobby shop managers that handle the books. It also doesn't take into account the added income taxes the shops are required to pay, along with taxes on standing inventory that the shop will be billed for at the end of the year.
3) Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after. How much is this going to cost the retailer since the retailer has to either store these coupons or pay to add it to the receipts they print since the receipt will require more paper, increasing costs. It will also put the retailer in a bad position since most customers ARE NOT going to be willing to just give out their email address, especially if they know it's going to be forwarded to another organization. Also, what is considered a "model aircraft product"? Are we talking:
1) The hobby shops have to pay their staffs for hours worked, just like any other business. To expect the hobby shops to be AMA recruiters as well as sign up points for new AMA members takes the hobby shop staff members away from doing their other necessary work(i.e. restocking shelves, ringing up purchases, assisting customers with possible purchases and repair of hobby items) that keeps the hobby shop in business
2) Offering to reimburse the hobby shops $4 to $25 to offset the costs of recruiting and basically selling AMA memberships just makes the required book keeping that much harder for the hobby shop managers that handle the books. It also doesn't take into account the added income taxes the shops are required to pay, along with taxes on standing inventory that the shop will be billed for at the end of the year.
3) Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after. How much is this going to cost the retailer since the retailer has to either store these coupons or pay to add it to the receipts they print since the receipt will require more paper, increasing costs. It will also put the retailer in a bad position since most customers ARE NOT going to be willing to just give out their email address, especially if they know it's going to be forwarded to another organization. Also, what is considered a "model aircraft product"? Are we talking:
- foam planes
- balsa stick gliders
- electric motors and ESCs
- plywood, basswood and balsa
- aircraft kits(either static display, free flight or R/C, when you can find them)
- propellers(considering there are variations for electric, rubber and IC powered aircraft, as well as boats)
- radio gear
- batteries
- paint
- adhesives
- Exacto knives and other hand tools
- hobby sized power tools
02-04-2019, 04:39 AM
#86
....
3) Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after.
....The AMA could say every one of the things listed above is a "model aircraft product", thus demanding an email address from just about anyone that enters a hobby shop to buy anything other than plastic models, hastening the demise of the local hobby shops due to customers not returning to buy from someplace that has gone from a hobby supply source to an information collection site and recruiting office
3) Provide retailers the ability, through a coupon code, to offer 2- or 3-month trial to the digital version of Model Aviation when their customers purchase a model aircraft product. The customers will have to provide us with an email address which is what we are after.
....The AMA could say every one of the things listed above is a "model aircraft product", thus demanding an email address from just about anyone that enters a hobby shop to buy anything other than plastic models, hastening the demise of the local hobby shops due to customers not returning to buy from someplace that has gone from a hobby supply source to an information collection site and recruiting office
To me, these kind of hairbrained ideas out of the EC show just how ill equipped they are to manage the organization. I've said it many times, but it remains true.
The EC is managing the AMA like a third rate elementary school bake sale.
02-04-2019, 10:18 AM
#88
Banned
As for suffering the consequences, the AMA forgets what kind of people settled this great land.
02-04-2019, 03:57 PM
#90
I have it on good authority, AMA has been presented with a readily available means to a solution to the membership decline problem but because the person is not part of the inner circle, they don't want to hear it.
02-04-2019, 07:05 PM
#91
02-05-2019, 05:06 AM
#92
Banned
There are a lot of things organizations like the AMA use to attract and keep members. But the bottom line is they need to provide value to the member. And the AMA offers little for the majority than access to club fields and the questionable insurance.
02-05-2019, 05:29 AM
#93
Franklin m and possibly many others have sent in proposals, but AMA won't even return emails. I've been offering ideas for decades, but get the same response or lack thereof.
AMA won't even consider anything from us dummies. It would seem considering the dire straits AMA is in, they would search under every stone and look at any and all suggestion from the membership.
What's curious is AMA has wasted millions over the years for advice from expensive consulting firms but won't seek free advice from AMA members. lol
AMA won't even consider anything from us dummies. It would seem considering the dire straits AMA is in, they would search under every stone and look at any and all suggestion from the membership.
What's curious is AMA has wasted millions over the years for advice from expensive consulting firms but won't seek free advice from AMA members. lol
Last edited by fliers1; 02-05-2019 at 05:35 AM.
02-05-2019, 05:51 AM
#94
Banned
Ah so it's just the same thing that's been going on for years. Nothing new. And I too have sent in ideas for various things.
The problem as I see it is the inner circle have set themselves up as the gods of the hobby with all the answers. Having to take a step back and get any form of outside help on an issue is a psychological event they don't seem to be able to deal with.
A couple of things can contribute to this. One of course is just the egos of everyone. But a second one is this could be due to a hidden agenda by the gods. I think that's is what the mandatory membership thing was supposed to be. And eventually may be.
I for one would be curious to see what the actual numbers do were mandatory membership established. I don't believe it would be the great saving event the AMA EC hopes it to be. The American public tend to walk away from things that become annoying.
Now, what other hidden agendas might be out there in Muncie Land?
The problem as I see it is the inner circle have set themselves up as the gods of the hobby with all the answers. Having to take a step back and get any form of outside help on an issue is a psychological event they don't seem to be able to deal with.
A couple of things can contribute to this. One of course is just the egos of everyone. But a second one is this could be due to a hidden agenda by the gods. I think that's is what the mandatory membership thing was supposed to be. And eventually may be.
I for one would be curious to see what the actual numbers do were mandatory membership established. I don't believe it would be the great saving event the AMA EC hopes it to be. The American public tend to walk away from things that become annoying.
Now, what other hidden agendas might be out there in Muncie Land?
02-05-2019, 06:11 AM
#95
Does anyone have a list of industry members including hobby shops, distributors and manufacturers that have gone under? Then there is the millions that AMA has lost. One should wonder just how bad it has to get before AMA takes the loss of the fixed wing portion of our hobby seriously?
02-05-2019, 06:22 AM
#96
Banned
Ah so it's nothing new but the same old pattern going on for many, many years. And I too have contributed but, I've seen the incorporation of a couple of my ideas. But at such a broad level it's impossible to say it was me and not just coincidence.
The inner circle have set themselves up as the gods of the hobby with all the answers. Have faith! They will guide the AMA ship through troubled times. But I think they have set themselves so high up that to lower themselves to take advice from an "outsider" is just psychologically impossible for them. But then a hidden agenda could also be guiding the action. The mandatory membership is one example of a hidden agenda that's been exposed. And yet they continue to persue it. Why? I don't believe that they believe they have any choice. They've put most if not all their eggs in this basket.
The AMA knows they need to provide value to attract members. Right now for the general membership that is limited to access to establishes AMA club sites and the questionable insurance. Their goal is for that "value" they provide to be access to the hobby in general. But I think they discount the American public who have a habit of simply moving on when something becomes too annoying. I for one would like to see a mandatory membership just to see what all the numbers do. I think it would surprise a lot of people.
The hobby is changing. The AMA has found it's previous strategies are no longer as valid if at all. They're scrambling as they've found what I'll call the new technology doesn't need AMA flying site nor the insurance and in short, they don't need the AMA. And the numbers do reflect this.
The next few years will be interesting indeed.
The inner circle have set themselves up as the gods of the hobby with all the answers. Have faith! They will guide the AMA ship through troubled times. But I think they have set themselves so high up that to lower themselves to take advice from an "outsider" is just psychologically impossible for them. But then a hidden agenda could also be guiding the action. The mandatory membership is one example of a hidden agenda that's been exposed. And yet they continue to persue it. Why? I don't believe that they believe they have any choice. They've put most if not all their eggs in this basket.
The AMA knows they need to provide value to attract members. Right now for the general membership that is limited to access to establishes AMA club sites and the questionable insurance. Their goal is for that "value" they provide to be access to the hobby in general. But I think they discount the American public who have a habit of simply moving on when something becomes too annoying. I for one would like to see a mandatory membership just to see what all the numbers do. I think it would surprise a lot of people.
The hobby is changing. The AMA has found it's previous strategies are no longer as valid if at all. They're scrambling as they've found what I'll call the new technology doesn't need AMA flying site nor the insurance and in short, they don't need the AMA. And the numbers do reflect this.
The next few years will be interesting indeed.
02-05-2019, 06:25 AM
#97
Banned
Does anyone have a list of industry members including hobby shops, distributors and manufacturers that have gone under? Then there is the millions that AMA has lost. One should wonder just how bad it has to get before AMA takes the loss of the fixed wing portion of our hobby seriously?
I think I heard somewhere that something to the tune of 80% have closed or left the hobby. Of course, starting from when is a question.
02-05-2019, 10:43 AM
#98
02-06-2019, 02:51 AM
#99
The AMA knows they need to provide value to attract members. Right now for the general membership that is limited to access to establishes AMA club sites and the questionable insurance. Their goal is for that "value" they provide to be access to the hobby in general. But I think they discount the American public who have a habit of simply moving on when something becomes too annoying. I for one would like to see a mandatory membership just to see what all the numbers do. I think it would surprise a lot of people.
The next few years will be interesting indeed.
The reality check is in the attachment. This is what AMA should be working on to properly address this problem.
02-06-2019, 07:10 AM
#100
Banned
One problem is there are far too many "experts" who say, "This is what they should be doing". Everyone certain they have the final solution and of course, no one is willing to give in to anyone else ideas.
Fact is there are a number of things the AMA should be doing. There is no single solution to their problems. Each problem needs to be identified, separated from all the rest and a solution for it devised and implemented. It really is as simple as that. But people tend to get overwhelmed when they try to go from from a global view to a detail view and back again and for some reason they think a single solution for everything is the only way to go.
Fact is there are a number of things the AMA should be doing. There is no single solution to their problems. Each problem needs to be identified, separated from all the rest and a solution for it devised and implemented. It really is as simple as that. But people tend to get overwhelmed when they try to go from from a global view to a detail view and back again and for some reason they think a single solution for everything is the only way to go.