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Old 11-15-2018, 04:33 PM
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init4fun
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Interesting choice of word , "Safeguarding" .

I sure hope so ......
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:45 PM
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These threads that are posted solely for the intent of bashing the AMA are really getting old.
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
These threads that are posted solely for the intent of bashing the AMA are really getting old.
You missed the point entirely , no bash , "I sure hope so" meaning just that , it's AMA to the rescue or the hobby is doomed .....
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:36 PM
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In that case, my apologies. Yes let's hope that they can convince the bureaucrats that we are not the danger they seem to think we are.
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Old 11-15-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
In that case, my apologies. Yes let's hope that they can convince the bureaucrats that we are not the danger they seem to think we are.
Amen to that . Right now the AMA is the only thing standing between us and finding a new hobby , and I'm too damned old to be finding any new hobbies , I'm perfectly fine with the ones I've got now .

I like the use of the word "safeguarding" because it sounds quite proactively defensive . We need all the defense we can get .
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:08 PM
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Yes, I have been thinking about what to do if this 400' altitude limit gets enforced a few years down the road. Obviously my sailplanes won't be much good. The few power airplanes I have will get flown in a different manner, all competition will be over and honestly I have maybe another 5 years of being semi competitive. I'm thinking of collecting a hanger of flyable vintage helicopters wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Amen to that . Right now the AMA is the only thing standing between us and finding a new hobby , and I'm too damned old to be finding any new hobbies , I'm perfectly fine with the ones I've got now .

I like the use of the word "safeguarding" because it sounds quite proactively defensive . We need all the defense we can get .
Personally to me it comes across as a day late and a dollar short. The time for such a statement on the sticker, and elsewhere, was over 10 years ago when this whole mess started. But today it looks more like damage control because the AMA knows their rep as the modelers advocate has taken a major hit through all this.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:48 AM
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You know it's kinda funny. I had a feeling that regardless of the original intent of the thread that eventually it would turn into a bash thread. The funny thing is that from what I can tell is that all this hatred towards the AMA pretty much stops at cyberspace. In the real world and outside certain people's sandboxes ( RCU and RCG ) my fellow R/C aircraft enthusiasts have an entirely different Veiw of the AMA and what it represents to our hobby. At the end of the day, I really shouldn't care so much about what someone on a revengeful crusade and a handful of his minions have to say. The fact that the leader of the group has stooped to outright lies to sway people to his viewpoint should enlighten intelligent people to figure out he is not the all powerful OZ but simply a man behind a curtain with an agenda. Everyone have a safe Holliday and enjoy your loved ones.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
Personally to me it comes across as a day late and a dollar short. The time for such a statement on the sticker, and elsewhere, was over 10 years ago when this whole mess started. But today it looks more like damage control because the AMA knows their rep as the modelers advocate has taken a major hit through all this.
Actually , in my opinion the beginnings of all this was June 9 1981 , the date the FAA published Advisory Circular 91-57 . I know I've said this before but I do believe the FAA's intent at that time was that we were not to exceed 400 feet AGL , and I believe the FAA thought we were being faithful to A/C 91-57 all these years . So tell me , and this is not a taunt but a serious question ; What in your opinion should the AMA do or should have done , beyond distancing us from the flying camera crowd , that could/would have gotten the FAA to let go of the 400 foot monster looming over our hobby ?
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Actually , in my opinion the beginnings of all this was June 9 1981 , the date the FAA published Advisory Circular 91-57 . I know I've said this before but I do believe the FAA's intent at that time was that we were not to exceed 400 feet AGL , and I believe the FAA thought we were being faithful to A/C 91-57 all these years . So tell me , and this is not a taunt but a serious question ; What in your opinion should the AMA do or should have done , beyond distancing us from the flying camera crowd , that could/would have gotten the FAA to let go of the 400 foot monster looming over our hobby ?
I was in Germany in 81 and President of an AMA club with German members flying from a US Army Post. We had a really good deal. We had a huge room provided by the Army for a club house. We did all our building there and had a table capable of turning out a perfectly flat 16 foot wing panel. Our runway was a sod strip originally built by the Nazis. We shared it with what little full size traffic came by. Maybe 5 aircraft in the 4 years I was there. And all but one were helicopters. Not a busy field but the Army kept it up.

In the end they might not have been able to do anything. But from where I sit, they avoided contact with the government at every turn.

First mistake IMHO was to relocate HQ to Muncie. This took them totally out of the DC Loop. Having lived in the area for 29 years to include working in DC for a number of those years, I have seen up close and first hand what it takes to get and hold the governments attention. And the AMA still doesn't have it. But it appears the MR crowd does.

I know for a fact that following the move a number of AMA members living in the DC area volunteered to help establish and maintain contact with the government. To my knowledge the AMA never took anyone up on their offer. One individual had been the college roommate and good friend of a very powerful Virginia Senator. He could have provided tremendous help. But him, like his club were ignored by Muncie.

Simply put, rather than build some kind of monument to toy airplanes, the AMA should have put the Muncie money to work lobbying in DC. They knew nothing about lobbying when all this started. IMO they still know very little today. Relying instead on the low bid lobbyist to do it for them. You get what you pay for.

Which brings us to another point. Such efforts don't come cheap. So who here would have paid twice their normal dues knowing the second half was going directly to lobbying efforts? I'd be willing to bet 75% of the membership would refuse and at least 15% would leave the AMA as a result. To include a number of clubs. 1981 was after all just before the tart of Sport Flyers (SFA). And how much money did the AMA blow on that legal fiasco that could have been directed to more productive things?

But of course I know have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight. Regardless of the fact that at the time I wrote numerous letters to the AMA voicing my opposition to many of their decisions of the time.

The AMA is a business. It should be run like a business.

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Old 11-18-2018, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
Personally to me it comes across as a day late and a dollar short. The time for such a statement on the sticker, and elsewhere, was over 10 years ago when this whole mess started. But today it looks more like damage control because the AMA knows their rep as the modelers advocate has taken a major hit through all this.
Exactly. AMA seems to say they're doing something is as good as actually doing it. For months preceding the FAA bill they messaged how well things were going. I can't prove it of course, but I think it's because they either can't read the signals they're getting from staff or they're reading them, but deciding to forward another message to members.
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Old 11-18-2018, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
The AMA is a business. It should be run like a business.
And yet it's being managed like a second rate elementary school bake sale. Read the July EC minutes and see what the CFO and auditor are telling them.
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Old 11-18-2018, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
You know it's kinda funny. I had a feeling that regardless of the original intent of the thread that eventually it would turn into a bash thread. The funny thing is that from what I can tell is that all this hatred towards the AMA pretty much stops at cyberspace. In the real world and outside certain people's sandboxes ( RCU and RCG ) my fellow R/C aircraft enthusiasts have an entirely different Veiw of the AMA and what it represents to our hobby. At the end of the day, I really shouldn't care so much about what someone on a revengeful crusade and a handful of his minions have to say. The fact that the leader of the group has stooped to outright lies to sway people to his viewpoint should enlighten intelligent people to figure out he is not the all powerful OZ but simply a man behind a curtain with an agenda. Everyone have a safe Holliday and enjoy your loved ones.
If I hang out with nothing but Cleveland Browns fans, and I never am exposed to any other type of fan, then of course I'm going to say that "fellow enthusiasts have an entirely different view." Did you ever consider that they "fellow enthusiasts" you hang out with might be a tad homogeneous group? So it's no wonder their opinions are homogeneous. Hardly indicative of a much more diverse group.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:25 AM
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Franklin, your last 3 posts contain nothing but speculation. You sit in a vacuum with your computer and make judgements.
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Old 11-18-2018, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
And yet it's being managed like a second rate elementary school bake sale. Read the July EC minutes and see what the CFO and auditor are telling them.
I'd have to join to have access to the minutes. And that ain't going to happen.
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Old 11-18-2018, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Franklin, your last 3 posts contain nothing but speculation. You sit in a vacuum with your computer and make judgements.
Patently false statement about containing “...NOTHING but speculation (emphasis added)”

Messaging Post: I can show months of blog entries that were positive. That is a fact and not speculation. Therefore that post is anything but “NOTHING but speculation (emphasis added).”

Bake Sale Post: That post contains reference to comments in AMA EC minutes. Those comments are factual, and not speculation. The bake sale comment is opinion. Therefore that post is anything but “NOTHING but speculation (emphasis added).”

Browns Post: That post is opinion related to impact of tribal thinking (homogeneous). That is not speculation, because the post was constructed as a hypothetical followed by a rhetorical question. As neither is speculation, your statement that it contains “NOTHING but speculation” is also false.
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Old 11-18-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
These threads that are posted solely for the intent of bashing the AMA are really getting old.
Except this one is factual. the did not safeguard anyone but professional drones.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Exactly. AMA seems to say they're doing something is as good as actually doing it. For months preceding the FAA bill they messaged how well things were going. I can't prove it of course, but I think it's because they either can't read the signals they're getting from staff or they're reading them, but deciding to forward another message to members.
I believe the membership has been sold a bill of goods on this and a number of other issues. I believe the entire Muncie staff and EC has failed the membership and has been doing so for years. The web site suggests great things (when it works) but the staff is short on producing. I believe there is a culture among the staff and past/present EC that has only their best interests in mind. A culture that says basically "what's good for Muncie is good for All."

But what interests me is the general gullibility displayed by the membership. You see more and more members regarding Muncie as some kind of sacred cow leading the charge. And when presented with hard facts, they turn a blind eye and directly attack the messengers. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Not to mention immature. But in a way they demonstrate the same attitudes towards the AMA that many, many people demonstrate towards the nation. Especially on voting day when they sit at home.

As has been said many times in many places, the AMA simply does not offer me any value. And just like there are corporations out there whose stock I wouldn't own, I won't join the AMA for the same reasons. No benefit in it for me.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
I believe the membership has been sold a bill of goods on this and a number of other issues. I believe the entire Muncie staff and EC has failed the membership and has been doing so for years. The web site suggests great things (when it works) but the staff is short on producing. I believe there is a culture among the staff and past/present EC that has only their best interests in mind. A culture that says basically "what's good for Muncie is good for All."

But what interests me is the general gullibility displayed by the membership. You see more and more members regarding Muncie as some kind of sacred cow leading the charge. And when presented with hard facts, they turn a blind eye and directly attack the messengers. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Not to mention immature. But in a way they demonstrate the same attitudes towards the AMA that many, many people demonstrate towards the nation. Especially on voting day when they sit at home.

As has been said many times in many places, the AMA simply does not offer me any value. And just like there are corporations out there whose stock I wouldn't own, I won't join the AMA for the same reasons. No benefit in it for me.
Apparently, AMA saw the writing on the wall in 2009. The current problems were for the most part inevitable.
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:17 AM
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I don't think the AMA saw the writing on the wall, just Jim Rice. I do feel that he was spot on as to the issues that were rearing their heads back when he wrote his paper. He specifically pointed out the following, which I am paraphrasing for simplicity:
  1. Fees are too high
  2. Club meetings rehash the same things over and over
  3. CLIQUES
  4. Old timers running off anyone that disagrees with them
  5. Bad behavior/language at the field
  6. Officers/instructors that belittle others rather than helping them
  7. Not welcoming spectators
  8. Not holding events that anyone can participate in
  9. ARGUMENTATIVE POSTS IN ONLINE FORUMS
  10. Running off people that don't fly what old timers do
  11. Blah newsletters
How many of these do we see happening today. You have to remember that Jim Rice wrote this back in DECEMBER 2009!!!!!!!
That said, I see some of these same things happening in the R/C scale hydroplane club I'm a member of. We have cliques, old timers that try to run the club even though they may not be officers, running off possible new members, etc. I see this, as well, in my other hobby, that being square and round dancing. New dancers are treated like children rather than as adults, cliques form that won't associate with others, belittling of those that don't dance at the same level as others, etc. Sound like the same things Jim wrote 11 year ago?
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I don't think the AMA saw the writing on the wall, just Jim Rice. I do feel that he was spot on as to the issues that were rearing their heads back when he wrote his paper. He specifically pointed out the following, which I am paraphrasing for simplicity:
  1. Fees are too high
  2. Club meetings rehash the same things over and over
  3. CLIQUES
  4. Old timers running off anyone that disagrees with them
  5. Bad behavior/language at the field
  6. Officers/instructors that belittle others rather than helping them
  7. Not welcoming spectators
  8. Not holding events that anyone can participate in
  9. ARGUMENTATIVE POSTS IN ONLINE FORUMS
  10. Running off people that don't fly what old timers do
  11. Blah newsletters
How many of these do we see happening today. You have to remember that Jim Rice wrote this back in DECEMBER 2009!!!!!!!
That said, I see some of these same things happening in the R/C scale hydroplane club I'm a member of. We have cliques, old timers that try to run the club even though they may not be officers, running off possible new members, etc. I see this, as well, in my other hobby, that being square and round dancing. New dancers are treated like children rather than as adults, cliques form that won't associate with others, belittling of those that don't dance at the same level as others, etc. Sound like the same things Jim wrote 11 year ago?
Happens at clubs, happens on Forums, happens anywhere 2 or modelers are gathered together.

Let's face it, we modelers are real SoBs.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
Happens at clubs, happens on Forums, happens anywhere 2 or modelers are gathered together.

Let's face it, we modelers are real SoBs.
NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a sweet and lovable person. Just ask me
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:45 PM
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LOL Dave, I’m sure we all are when we want to be.
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Old 11-21-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
Happens at clubs, happens on Forums, happens anywhere 2 or modelers are gathered together.

Let's face it, we modelers are real SoBs.
https://www.
youtube.com/watch?v=VW5TWYbg MGQ


Remove the space between the www. and youtube to see the scene

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Old 11-22-2018, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by flyboy2610 View Post
https://www.
youtube.com/watch?v=VW5TWYbg MGQ


Remove the space between the www. and youtube to see the scene
A favorite scene to be sure!

Русский сукин сын
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