While AMA talks, FAA acts...
01-13-2019, 09:43 AM
#251
What would worry me isn't what we're saying as much as the information Franklin has obtained and posted. That should worry the AMA to no end as it would prevent me from ever applying for membership due to how wasteful the AMA is shown to be. Since Franklin is posting information that the AMA had itself put out, they also don't have any way to discredit him for doing so
Astro
01-13-2019, 09:45 AM
#252
Am I seeing things? Speed agrees with the fact that Muncie needs to make changes? How can this be?
I do disagree, however, that more members will make a difference. What would make a difference would be the AMA working on its own credibility. Right now, they are a joke to those on Capitol Hill, as I stated in another post. They need to forget about quads and stick to what made the organization to begin with, model aviation. If they distance themselves from quads and stick to aircraft and helicopters, maybe Congress and the FAA will start to listen to them again
01-13-2019, 09:49 AM
#253
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie 
..... what I see happening is that the FAA will be putting together an exemption for CBO sites the same as they have in Canada...…
..... what I see happening is that the FAA will be putting together an exemption for CBO sites the same as they have in Canada...…
Originally Posted by init4fun
Exactly .
Unfortunately, I see a big problem with this.
There is no such thing as a, "CBO site". This would require strict control and regulations over our actual flying sites, of which the AMA (or CBO) has absolutely NONE, nor the resources to implement.
Astro
01-13-2019, 09:51 AM
#254
Banned
You may be right, but I doubt it. The AMA is a perceived joke when you look at what's happening on Capitol Hill. I also don't see how the FAA can give an exemption to anyone that is more than a special event exemption. When I go to a boat race, the club I belong to has to have a permit to shut down the water. Never have we obtained a long term permit, just 24 to 48 hours at most. I suspect the FAA would do the same thing
01-13-2019, 09:55 AM
#255
I also know that when staffing you need to look at what the median pay median pay is for that particular position in that particular region and pay competitively regardless of the health of the organization. Would you accept a position that payed less then the median because the organization was struggling?
Would you continue to pay a person to do a job that they were not doing effectively? (regardless of the salary?)
Astro
01-13-2019, 09:55 AM
#256
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie ..... what I see happening is that the FAA will be putting together an exemption for CBO sites the same as they have in Canada...…
..... what I see happening is that the FAA will be putting together an exemption for CBO sites the same as they have in Canada...…Unfortunately, I see a big problem with this.
There is no such thing as a, "CBO site". This would require strict control and regulations over our actual flying sites, of which the AMA (or CBO) has absolutely NONE, nor the resources to implement.
Astro
01-13-2019, 10:00 AM
#257
Banned
And in the case of the AMA, this is not a new situation. But has been going on for decades and is getting worse!
01-13-2019, 10:01 AM
#258
What would worry me isn't what we're saying as much as the information Franklin has obtained and posted. That should worry the AMA to no end as it would prevent me from ever applying for membership due to how wasteful the AMA is shown to be. Since Franklin is posting information that the AMA had itself put out, they also don't have any way to discredit him for doing so
I actually have no issue with the information presented. It's no secret to me and hasn't been for well over 10 years that membership is on a steady decline. In spite of that decline in any organization you still have to adjust payroll to meet inflation. If not you end up with no staff at all.
What I think would be discouraging to a newcomer to the hobby is the way we treat one another in this forum. A great example is Appowner's last attempt at my character assasination.
01-13-2019, 10:03 AM
#259
As I said in another thread, fire the staff except for three or four. When the renewal period starts, hire a temp worker or two to cover the excess load until things get back to normal
01-13-2019, 10:06 AM
#260
Banned
I actually have no issue with the information presented. It's no secret to me and hasn't been for well over 10 years that membership is on a steady decline. In spite of that decline in any organization you still have to adjust payroll to meet inflation. If not you end up with no staff at all.
What I think would be discouraging to a newcomer to the hobby is the way we treat one another in this forum. A great example is Appowner's last attempt at my character assasination.
01-13-2019, 10:08 AM
#261
I have corresponded with AMA HQ 3 times over the past week and have gotten a timely response each time. I had even sent a request to the wrong department but had a reply from the correct department in less then a day. Back when I needed an FAI stamp to compete in a US team selection contest the staff expedited the process and I had my FAI stamp in a week. So far the AMA staff has met my expectations.
01-13-2019, 10:09 AM
#262
Banned
So look for a dues increase this year followed possibly by land being sold off.
01-13-2019, 10:10 AM
#263
I also think we put too much emphasis on membership numbers. This is, again, where I think the AMA has gone astray. While it would be nice to have an ever-increasing member base, like many other ebbs and flows in our society, model aviation just does not have the lustre that it did back in the day. It is my opinion that it is up to each and every local club to be responsible to attract new members, NOT Muncie. Muncie's purpose is to bring value to, and support the membership base, no matter the size of membership. If membership increases, Muncie should step up to support the additional growth. If the membership declines, Muncie should make appropriate cuts in order that they can stay relevant.
It would seem that most of America has adopted a, "bigger is better" mentality for everything that we do, and we label growth as, "good" and decline as, "bad". I simply do not believe that applies to all situations, especially not this one.
Astro
01-13-2019, 10:13 AM
#264
Banned
OK I'll bite. Please tell me specifically who at AMA HQ is not doing their job effectively? Please provide examples and names.
I have corresponded with AMA HQ 3 times over the past week and have gotten a timely response each time. I had even sent a request to the wrong department but had a reply from the correct department in less then a day. Back when I needed an FAI stamp to compete in a US team selection contest the staff expedited the process and I had my FAI stamp in a week. So far the AMA staff has met my expectations.
01-13-2019, 10:13 AM
#265
You would do this without knowing the exact workload at the facility. Then pay out severance packages and unemployment benifits. Then when the first of the year hits ( not everyone is required to renew 1-1 ) go through the expense of hiring a temp staff and pay 30% more? That even with the benifits a full time employee get does not really sound like saving money to me. Unless of course you have information on people's salaries and benifits.
01-13-2019, 10:16 AM
#266
Banned
You would do this without knowing the exact workload at the facility. Then pay out severance packages and unemployment benifits. Then when the first of the year hits ( not everyone is required to renew 1-1 ) go through the expense of hiring a temp staff and pay 30% more? That even with the benifits a full time employee get does not really sound like saving money to me. Unless of course you have information on people's salaries and benifits.
Employee expenses have gone through the roof in recent years.
What is YOUR solution?
01-13-2019, 10:17 AM
#267
Webmaster. The web site is a joke. Problems still exist. And the fact that they do still exist shows whoever oversees the webmaster is also slacking off. Had I put up something like that when I was IT, I would have been unemployed within 48 hours. Sub Standard performance.
I wont argue that the web site sucks. However do you know for a fact that the IT person is full time? Do you know what they are paying him? Do you know anything other then the web site sucks?
01-13-2019, 10:22 AM
#268
Not seeing all the nessesary information I can't say I have a solution. IMO to come up with a realistic solution would require one actually being there. I agree that some cuts are nessesary however exactly what to cut would require some onsite experience. Membership needs to increase. I see some sort of membership drive happening. A national marketing program involving the entire industry would not be a bad idea.
01-13-2019, 10:23 AM
#269
Muncie's purpose is to bring value to, and support the membership base, no matter the size of membership. If membership increases, Muncie should step up to support the additional growth. If the membership declines, Muncie should make appropriate cuts in order that they can stay relevant.
It would seem that most of America has adopted a, "bigger is better" mentality for everything that we do, and we label growth as, "good" and decline as, "bad". I simply do not believe that applies to all situations, especially not this one.
Astro
It would seem that most of America has adopted a, "bigger is better" mentality for everything that we do, and we label growth as, "good" and decline as, "bad". I simply do not believe that applies to all situations, especially not this one.
Astro
01-13-2019, 10:23 AM
#270
Banned
Don't know and don't care. Those decisions were made by the staff over seeing the webmaster. Possibly Joyce Hagar. Point is, the site sucks and whoever is responsible over and above the webmaster isn't being HELD responsible. Wouldn't surprise me to find nepotism at work there.
01-13-2019, 10:23 AM
#271
OK I'll bite. Please tell me specifically who at AMA HQ is not doing their job effectively? Please provide examples and names.
I have corresponded with AMA HQ 3 times over the past week and have gotten a timely response each time. I had even sent a request to the wrong department but had a reply from the correct department in less then a day. Back when I needed an FAI stamp to compete in a US team selection contest the staff expedited the process and I had my FAI stamp in a week. So far the AMA staff has met my expectations.
I have corresponded with AMA HQ 3 times over the past week and have gotten a timely response each time. I had even sent a request to the wrong department but had a reply from the correct department in less then a day. Back when I needed an FAI stamp to compete in a US team selection contest the staff expedited the process and I had my FAI stamp in a week. So far the AMA staff has met my expectations.
In this instance, I think it is clear that it is the LEADERSHIP that is failing. I am sure that the hourly employees work hard every day, and it is certainly not their fault the entire organization is on the decline.
Now, before you go and tell me that I need to run for office.....I DID vote. I DID NOT vote for the current administration.
I AM advocating for change on these forums. I am advocating to abolish the GOB network that is not allowing for candidates who oppose them to have a fair and equitable chance in the elections (remember the use of OUR magazine to discredit the opposition during the last election?). Are you aware of the politics involved in order to get one's name fficially on the ballot? (other than a rite-in).
THAT is the single biggest change that will give the AMA any chance of surviving thriving and being able to effectively negotiate and partner with the FAA to ensure that we can continue to enjoy model aviation.
Regards,
Astro
01-13-2019, 10:31 AM
#273
I am getting confused....
So far, you have acquiesced to the following:
- treasury is bleeding and something should be done
- website sucks
-membership is declining
-AMA has been ineffective negotiating for its members with the FAA
Yet, you continue to advocate that everything is fine and the real problem are the "haters" on these forums that continually complain?
My head is spinning!!!
Regards,
Astro
01-13-2019, 10:33 AM
#274
You would do this without knowing the exact workload at the facility. Then pay out severance packages and unemployment benifits. Then when the first of the year hits ( not everyone is required to renew 1-1 ) go through the expense of hiring a temp staff and pay 30% more? That even with the benifits a full time employee get does not really sound like saving money to me. Unless of course you have information on people's salaries and benifits.
Let's look at their workload:
- a renewal period that may last for one to two months
- insurance claims, when needed. When was the last time you saw someone hurt at the field? How about properly damage outside of the flying field grounds? I've seen a total of ONE INJURY during my time racing boats and that started back in 1990 and no property damage
- legal forms for the IRS and the FAA legal team
- the odd membership form or two each month
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-13-2019 at 10:43 AM.
01-13-2019, 10:43 AM
#275
Not seeing all the nessesary information I can't say I have a solution. IMO to come up with a realistic solution would require one actually being there. I agree that some cuts are nessesary however exactly what to cut would require some onsite experience. Membership needs to increase. I see some sort of membership drive happening. A national marketing program involving the entire industry would not be a bad idea.