Growth: Whose responsiblity is it?
03-21-2019, 02:15 PM
#76
Enough of the supposition and spin...….I like to talk about what has actually happened. I haven't seen a unicorn in person yet. That doesn't mean that my first sighting isn't forthcoming...……
The AMA has been asking for exempt status for years. What makes you think there is a better chance now, than there was initially?
Astro
The AMA has been asking for exempt status for years. What makes you think there is a better chance now, than there was initially?
Astro
03-21-2019, 05:04 PM
#78
Ocala this past weekend 6-7 Canadians in attendance looks like lots of flying over the 400 ft limit AMA sanctioned event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogwuu5LwFJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogwuu5LwFJs
Canadians that come to the US to fly, break the FAA rules???
03-21-2019, 08:16 PM
#80
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT YOUR POINT IS! It looks like you are proving mine! No mention of any exemptions there.....
In fact, technically, the IMAC guys that propworn is referring to were not flying, "only for fun or recreation", they were indeed, flying for COMPETITION.
Regards,
Astro
In fact, technically, the IMAC guys that propworn is referring to were not flying, "only for fun or recreation", they were indeed, flying for COMPETITION.
Regards,
Astro
03-21-2019, 09:38 PM
#81
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT YOUR POINT IS! It looks like you are proving mine! No mention of any exemptions there.....
In fact, technically, the IMAC guys that propworn is referring to were not flying, "only for fun or recreation", they were indeed, flying for COMPETITION.
Regards,
Astro
In fact, technically, the IMAC guys that propworn is referring to were not flying, "only for fun or recreation", they were indeed, flying for COMPETITION.
Regards,
Astro
I must thank you for the best laugh I have had all week. My point is that just because somone flies over 400' does not mean they are breaking a law. A law that hasn't been fully implemented as of yet I might ad. However, just somthat I am informed can you please direct me to the FAA page where they deal with competition R/C pilots.
03-22-2019, 03:33 AM
#82
Thread Starter
Hypothetically, if it were possible to be able to learn to skillfully fly R/C airplanes within an hour, how do you think that it would effect the hobby/sport in general.
Discuss.
Discuss.
03-22-2019, 03:36 AM
#83
Banned
Now, can anyone tell me what class airspace the event was in?
In addition, for such an event the sponsoring club could have obtained permission from the FAA to fly higher. Anyone know if that was the case or not?
Didn't think so. You guys just flunked your FAA test for recreational drone flight.
So basically we have people who may or may not fully understand the rules. On BOTH sides of the border. We also may have some who state only enough to raise a fuss from others. There's a name for that.
03-22-2019, 04:10 AM
#84
Great question! I think it would have an adverse affect. I myself stay with the hobby because I find it a constant challenge. Not only a challenge in piloting skills but from an engineering standpoint as well. Once I learned to fly I was quickly drawn into pylon racing. After a while I gravitated towards helicopters and eventually became a demo pilot for Gorham Model Products and then Century helicopters. When 3D type flying came about I lost interest and got serious into sailplanes. Two years later I was competing for a spot on the US soaring team. Soon after that I was flying IMAC, now flying Pattern. The challenge with pattern is to not only be competitive as a pilot ( Masters class this year ) but to do it with an airplane that I designed and manufactured. It's that level of challenge and desire to push the skills in both piloting and model aerodynamics that keeps me interested. The same may apply to those who continue to come into this forum, these are challenging conversations we have in here.
Lets take these 180,000 registered drones as an example. I am willing to bet that after a year only 25% that are registered as recreational use are still being used on a regular basis. They are just too easy to operate to hold any real challenge. One of the reasons I feel guys are getting into trouble with them. They get bored quickly and then start looking for more challenging locations to operate them.
I sincerely hope this thread will continue with others sharing their point of Veiw on this, as I fully expect that others stick with the hobby for other reasons than I do. I am just about to start a 10 hour drive so any further responses from me may be a bit slow coming.
03-22-2019, 04:16 AM
#85
I must thank you for the best laugh I have had all week. My point is that just because somone flies over 400' does not mean they are breaking a law. A law that hasn't been fully implemented as of yet I might ad. However, just somthat I am informed can you please direct me to the FAA page where they deal with competition R/C pilots.
PS. QUID QUO PRO (if you want to play semantics and spin games like Porcia did, you MUST play by the rules. i.e. you have unanswered questions on the table, yet you continue to ask more)
Astro
Last edited by astrohog; 03-22-2019 at 04:20 AM.
03-22-2019, 04:33 AM
#86
I spoke with my buddy who winters in Sarasota and asked about the 400 ft ceiling and how it affected his club and flying. He laughed and said the field is built on the top of a landfill that must be close to 100 ft high. So does that mean 400 ft above that or what. Its a large club no one seems to express any concern about the 400 ft limit. We have about a dozen guys who winter in Florida and a few in Texas no one seems to be concerned and the clubs they belong to don't seem worried. These guys winter and fly at local clubs every year so they have a vested interest in how things are going between the FAA and the AMA. Their opinion is that the clubs feel the AMA is doing a good job representing modelers in general. There seems to be quite a few that have expressed an opinion that the AMA should concentrate on its members to the exclusion of non members. This sort of confirms what I am hearing from the american flyers I keep in touch with south of the border.
Dennis
Dennis
03-22-2019, 04:51 AM
#87
LOL. That's just like me saying I'm not too concerned about the speed limit. Seems that the others I share the Interstate with feel the same way. It MUST be okay to speed then, right?
It is also clear that although you enjoy the reciprocal agreement between MAAC and the AMA, you haven't bothered to understand the rules (or you simply don't think the rules apply to you?). The 400' limit is CLEARLY 400' AGL.
LOL
Astro
It is also clear that although you enjoy the reciprocal agreement between MAAC and the AMA, you haven't bothered to understand the rules (or you simply don't think the rules apply to you?). The 400' limit is CLEARLY 400' AGL.
LOL
Astro
03-22-2019, 05:13 AM
#88
Banned
LOL. That's just like me saying I'm not too concerned about the speed limit. Seems that the others I share the Interstate with feel the same way. It MUST be okay to speed then, right?
It is also clear that although you enjoy the reciprocal agreement between MAAC and the AMA, you haven't bothered to understand the rules (or you simply don't think the rules apply to you?). The 400' limit is CLEARLY 400' AGL.
LOL
Astro
It is also clear that although you enjoy the reciprocal agreement between MAAC and the AMA, you haven't bothered to understand the rules (or you simply don't think the rules apply to you?). The 400' limit is CLEARLY 400' AGL.
LOL
Astro
I have seen nothing definitive come from the FAA about this. However, I would hope that any authority would see the dilemma presented here and unless there were some other specific issue, not condemn the pilot or glider and allow the flight to continue.
And again, something all of you seem to want to ignore. What class airspace is it in? If you don't understand the airspace classes you really need to get a handle on them. Mainly because the rules do change based on the class airspace you're in. And in some areas, you can have more than one class within the overall area models fly. Do you know what they are and what you should do? Ignorance of the law is no excuse where public safety is concerned.
Of course you can take the Socialist view and just wait for the FAA, AMA or Canadian government to TELL you where to fly.
Last edited by Appowner; 03-22-2019 at 05:25 AM.
03-22-2019, 06:09 AM
#89
Dennis
What has this to do with the ops original topic by the way?????????
By the way I will be traveling across the north east corner of the US on the way to a month traveling around Newfoundland. I will be towing my toy box behind my truck camper and intend to stop and fly at as many fields as I can locate on the way. I don't expect to have any problems flying at those clubs I find on my travels. Next year I have another month planed traveling to Tuktoyaktuk Canada and float fly from the Arctic Ocean. Again I for see no problems.
Last edited by Propworn; 03-22-2019 at 06:26 AM.
03-22-2019, 06:48 AM
#90
Dennis,
After all of that, I hope you understand that none of what you said changes any of the rules, nor does it grant you or any of the AMA members at those events any exemptions from the rules.
As for your upcoming trip; I am jealous and I love your truck camper/airplane hauler setup! I recently sold my travel trailer (kids are now grown and gone) and picked up a truck camper for this same purpose. I’m still sorting out my truck, camper and airplane trailer so they all play nice together and are solid and safe going down the road. I’m looking forward to travelling to events and meeting many new folks in the hobby, unfortunately, work is still getting in the way of any extended trips in the near future.
Regards,
Astro
03-22-2019, 06:51 AM
#91
Thread Starter
I understand the rules however when visiting a club in the US ( I only fly at AMA fields/events as that is the only place my insurance covers me) the first thing I do is introduce myself and ask permission to fly as a guest. I have a copy of the reciprocal agreement if there is any question. If someone were to challenge me about being an AMA member I would simply sit out and spectate I am not that much in need of flying that I would cause any problems. If permission is granted I ask if there are any restrictions such as no fly zones etc. Only once have I been told about a 400 ft rule at a registered flying site/event and a couple have been right beside a private airfield on the same property. In fact one was less than 400 ft from the edge of the runway. They were sanctioned AMA fields. The field in Deland Florida is on the end of a deactivated runway and its 400 ft ceiling was in effect before the FAA ever got involved simply because its under an active flight path.
Dennis
What has this to do with the ops original topic by the way?????????
By the way I will be traveling across the north east corner of the US on the way to a month traveling around Newfoundland. I will be towing my toy box behind my truck camper and intend to stop and fly at as many fields as I can locate on the way. I don't expect to have any problems flying at those clubs I find on my travels. Next year I have another month planed traveling to Tuktoyaktuk Canada and float fly from the Arctic Ocean. Again I for see no problems.
Dennis
What has this to do with the ops original topic by the way?????????
By the way I will be traveling across the north east corner of the US on the way to a month traveling around Newfoundland. I will be towing my toy box behind my truck camper and intend to stop and fly at as many fields as I can locate on the way. I don't expect to have any problems flying at those clubs I find on my travels. Next year I have another month planed traveling to Tuktoyaktuk Canada and float fly from the Arctic Ocean. Again I for see no problems.
I live 20 north of Buffalo, NY and the same east of Niagara Falls, NY.
In your travels, would you like to stop at my flying field in Lockport, NY to fly and if you're bringing someone with you, I could give them some stick time and show you how I can have them takeoff, fly very smoothly and land right away, with very little assistance from me. I don't know if people don't believe it's possible or don't want to believe.
We have two beautiful flying fields that goes mostly unused all year, every year. If you can make it, I'll explain why. I can demonstrate how my method works even on a veteran flier. I can have you fly without even looking at the plane in flight.
03-22-2019, 09:19 AM
#92
Unlike you I contacted the AMA and asked specifically about the 400 ft limit and received this PDF file which is a letter from the FAA to the AMA re its members to fly above the 400 ft limit. Notice I said members it looks like non members will have to abide by the 400 ft limit. Reading it over non members may be able to fly over the 400 ft limit but must follow the safety guidlines of a community based CBO such as the AMA. Does this mean the FAA in wording the AMA as a CBO recognize them as such????????????
Last edited by Propworn; 03-22-2019 at 09:38 AM.
03-22-2019, 09:35 AM
#93
Dennis,
I live 20 north of Buffalo, NY and the same east of Niagara Falls, NY.
In your travels, would you like to stop at my flying field in Lockport, NY to fly and if you're bringing someone with you, I could give them some stick time and show you how I can have them takeoff, fly very smoothly and land right away, with very little assistance from me. I don't know if people don't believe it's possible or don't want to believe.
We have two beautiful flying fields that goes mostly unused all year, every year. If you can make it, I'll explain why. I can demonstrate how my method works even on a veteran flier. I can have you fly without even looking at the plane in flight.
I live 20 north of Buffalo, NY and the same east of Niagara Falls, NY.
In your travels, would you like to stop at my flying field in Lockport, NY to fly and if you're bringing someone with you, I could give them some stick time and show you how I can have them takeoff, fly very smoothly and land right away, with very little assistance from me. I don't know if people don't believe it's possible or don't want to believe.
We have two beautiful flying fields that goes mostly unused all year, every year. If you can make it, I'll explain why. I can demonstrate how my method works even on a veteran flier. I can have you fly without even looking at the plane in flight.
My wife is the one who will be with me and she is not interested in the least in learning to fly or even trying it. Just not her interest.
It depends on the time frame to make the ferry to Newfoundland. Reservations must be made in advance and there is a substantial penalty for missing your sailing date. If time permits I may contact you closer to the vacation time.
Dennis
03-22-2019, 09:49 AM
#94
Unlike you I contacted the AMA and asked specifically about the 400 ft limit and received this PDF file which is a letter from the FAA to the AMA re its members to fly above the 400 ft limit. Notice I said members it looks like non members will have to abide by the 400 ft limit. Reading it over non members may be able to fly over the 400 ft limit but must follow the safety guidlines of a community based CBO such as the AMA. Does this mean the FAA in wording the AMA as a CBO recognize them as such????????????
Apparently, you failed to recognize how arbitrary that FAA statement is?
Essentially it reads, “fly however high you want, just don’t interfere with full scale aircraft. However, if you DO interfere with a full-scale aircraft, you will be charged.”
Many people who read the FAA statement you posted asked the same question regarding the AMA’s status as an “official” CBO. The FAA responded by saying that they have not named any organization as an “official” CBO.
As always, you are welcome to believe what you want, just be aware that your beliefs do not necessarily constitute facts.
Astro
03-22-2019, 10:38 AM
#95
Thread Starter
Thanks but I am not sure where I am crossing over Kingston or Detroit. I have a couple of friends who fly a little south of you if I decide to swing their way. Our club has a set training regimen using buddy boxes and a structured teaching method. All instructors follow this I'm afraid your method would not meet the requirements set by the club. Every time something comes up the club votes to continue what has worked for over 30 years.
My wife is the one who will be with me and she is not interested in the least in learning to fly or even trying it. Just not her interest.
It depends on the time frame to make the ferry to Newfoundland. Reservations must be made in advance and there is a substantial penalty for missing your sailing date. If time permits I may contact you closer to the vacation time.
Dennis
My wife is the one who will be with me and she is not interested in the least in learning to fly or even trying it. Just not her interest.
It depends on the time frame to make the ferry to Newfoundland. Reservations must be made in advance and there is a substantial penalty for missing your sailing date. If time permits I may contact you closer to the vacation time.
Dennis
All I wanted to do is show you that my method works as well as I claim. BTW, locally it's the same, which is why the two excellent flying fields are all but deserted. The clubs had their way of teaching, which is basically very little if any instruction. I have to ask everyone, what would you do if you had this skill. I keep running into a brick wall.
BTW, this invite is for everyone.
Last edited by fliers1; 03-22-2019 at 10:47 AM.
03-22-2019, 04:00 PM
#96
Banned
Unlike you I contacted the AMA and asked specifically about the 400 ft limit and received this PDF file which is a letter from the FAA to the AMA re its members to fly above the 400 ft limit. Notice I said members it looks like non members will have to abide by the 400 ft limit. Reading it over non members may be able to fly over the 400 ft limit but must follow the safety guidlines of a community based CBO such as the AMA. Does this mean the FAA in wording the AMA as a CBO recognize them as such????????????
First of all, your little letter is dated July 2016. BEFORE the current Re-Auth bill of 2018 which was passed and signed into law. Guess which one is in force? One thing this Bill does is do away with the section 336 on which your letter is based. In fact, section 336 is now titled "Sec. 336. Secondary cockpit barriers." Secondly it stipulates that the 400 foot limit is for Class 'G' airspace. Do you know what class G is? And why 400 foot is the limit? Enlighten us please?
In any other airspace class the altitude limit is based on whatever agreement the club or individual has with the local ATC/FAA. Since in all other airspace classes the recreational flyer is REQUIRED to contact ATC prior to. Unless the owners of the flying site have a pre-established agreement with ATC/FAA which defines altitude limits and such.
Of course you only fly at AMA club sites. You assume they actually know what they're doing. But the bottom line is, it is still YOUR responsibility to KNOW the whole story. You might want to do some studying before your next trip.
03-22-2019, 04:42 PM
#97
While on my 600 mile drive today I came to a few conclusions. First is that virtually all the AMA sanctioned sites I have flown from have been located relatively close to some sort of metropolis area. Could this mean that they would also be in controlled airspace? I did punch up Before you fly as I passed within a mile of the club field I plan to join coming into Portland and it is in controlled airspace so I think I am all good there. I will make some calls tomorrow to verify. Being that most sanctioned sites may be inside controlled airspace this exemption situation just may be playing out on its own to a certain degree.
Secondly is that I couldn't think of anything that would differentiate a sport pilot from a competition pilot in the eyes of the FAA. Anyone have any insights on that one?
Secondly is that I couldn't think of anything that would differentiate a sport pilot from a competition pilot in the eyes of the FAA. Anyone have any insights on that one?
03-22-2019, 05:02 PM
#98
Astro
03-22-2019, 05:11 PM
#99
I know it's a stretch , but , could the difference be that the average sport pilot wouldn't be frequently pushing the equipment to the ends of it's safe operating limits like a competition pilot might ? Like I said , I know it's a stretch but I really can't think of any other reason other than the increased danger of any machine being operated in an attempt to best the operation of similar machinery in competition .
03-22-2019, 05:27 PM
#100
Only insight that I have is that the FAA has drawn the line between commercial operations and recreational operations. If one is competing (or possibly a sponsored pilot?), it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for the FAA to consider those commercial operations, no?
Astro
Astro