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Growth: Whose responsiblity is it?

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Growth: Whose responsiblity is it?

Old 03-24-2019, 03:05 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Propworn
Ocala this past weekend 6-7 Canadians in attendance looks like lots of flying over the 400 ft limit AMA sanctioned event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogwuu5LwFJs
Was the event sponsored? Was any form of compensation given to the club or AMA? Do you have your part 107? Just throwing questions out.

Last edited by Appowner; 03-24-2019 at 08:13 PM.
Old 03-24-2019, 03:24 PM
  #127  
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Why all the bitterness towards our neighbors in the north? I have many fond memories of hot looking bikini clad women from Canada at Old Orchard Beach, Maine in the summers.
Old 03-24-2019, 08:12 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer
Why all the bitterness towards our neighbors in the north? I have many fond memories of hot looking bikini clad women from Canada at Old Orchard Beach, Maine in the summers.
It has been my experience that the Canucks seem to have a proclivity to tell us, the U.S., how to conduct our lives. From the basic family to congress itself.

I think Canada needs to deal with it's own and not try to tell others how to live until Canada has itself proven the method. Which we know it will never do. After all, socialism is hard to justify. If not impossible.

Other wise, in the next world war, after we let Germany keep France, maybe we should let them have Canada too?

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Old 03-24-2019, 08:44 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer
Why all the bitterness towards our neighbors in the north? I have many fond memories of hot looking bikini clad women from Canada at Old Orchard Beach, Maine in the summers.
I have many fond memories of playing volleyball on the beach in Mombasa Kenya with some hot looking bikini clad women from Norway. What's your point?
Old 03-24-2019, 09:11 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Propworn
I understand the rules however when visiting a club in the US ( I only fly at AMA fields/events as that is the only place my insurance covers me) the first thing I do is introduce myself and ask permission to fly as a guest. I have a copy of the reciprocal agreement if there is any question. If someone were to challenge me about being an AMA member I would simply sit out and spectate I am not that much in need of flying that I would cause any problems. If permission is granted I ask if there are any restrictions such as no fly zones etc. Only once have I been told about a 400 ft rule at a registered flying site/event and a couple have been right beside a private airfield on the same property. In fact one was less than 400 ft from the edge of the runway. They were sanctioned AMA fields. The field in Deland Florida is on the end of a deactivated runway and its 400 ft ceiling was in effect before the FAA ever got involved simply because its under an active flight path.

Dennis

What has this to do with the ops original topic by the way?????????

By the way I will be traveling across the north east corner of the US on the way to a month traveling around Newfoundland. I will be towing my toy box behind my truck camper and intend to stop and fly at as many fields as I can locate on the way. I don't expect to have any problems flying at those clubs I find on my travels. Next year I have another month planed traveling to Tuktoyaktuk Canada and float fly from the Arctic Ocean. Again I for see no problems.

Nice pics. Homeland is appreciate!
Old 03-25-2019, 04:08 AM
  #131  
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My point is that your trollish behavior on this forum is really getting old. Why don`t you do what you said you were going to do and just go away?
Old 04-02-2019, 04:55 AM
  #132  
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Kids love model airplanes. That's on page 96 of April 2019 Model Aviation magazine
Something I've known for many years. Once I spent 7 hours giving over 100 cub scouts RC flying lessons. When I had my hobby shop, I probably trained 30 or so young people.
I am currently working with a S.T.E.M. teacher at our new YMCA. When the weather breaks, we will be working with kids in the back of the Y. Kids are indeed interested.
Old 04-02-2019, 06:13 AM
  #133  
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The one biggest obstacle with kids I have found happens to be that they have to rely on a parent/adult to get them or their equipment to the field/flying site. Then we have had some parents think we are a baby sitting service which we make clear we are not. Due to liability and the possibility of injury and discipline the parent/adult must remain with the child.

I have just this past year arranged a free membership for two brothers (one confined to a wheelchair) in both the club and the national organization. I made available a PT 40 converted to electric as their trainer. I phoned every week trying to get together Wednesday or Sunday but the mother always has an excuse or something else that needed doing. We even fly indoor in the winter on Sunday and she could never make it.

The longest lasting successes have been when I can convince the parent/adult to join and have the child join as a family member (ours join for free under 18 yrs old) and teach both to fly.
Old 04-02-2019, 06:24 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Propworn
The one biggest obstacle with kids I have found happens to be that they have to rely on a parent/adult to get them or their equipment to the field/flying site. Then we have had some parents think we are a baby sitting service which we make clear we are not. Due to liability and the possibility of injury and discipline the parent/adult must remain with the child.

I have just this past year arranged a free membership for two brothers (one confined to a wheelchair) in both the club and the national organization. I made available a PT 40 converted to electric as their trainer. I phoned every week trying to get together Wednesday or Sunday but the mother always has an excuse or something else that needed doing. We even fly indoor in the winter on Sunday and she could never make it.

The longest lasting successes have been when I can convince the parent/adult to join and have the child join as a family member (ours join for free under 18 yrs old) and teach both to fly.
I never had such a problem when I was running my flight school and the hobby shop. The parents and kids always showed up and if someone was late, on occasion it was me.
I insisted that the parent fly so that his or her kid would have someone to fly with, also the parent would learn as much as the kids about the hobby. I had a least one mother who really got into the hobby, building and became an officer and instructor in a club. She turned out to be an excellent builder and flier. Several father and son duos would be at the field on a regular basis.
Old 04-02-2019, 08:35 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by fliers1
I never had such a problem when I was running my flight school and the hobby shop. The parents and kids always showed up and if someone was late, on occasion it was me.
I insisted that the parent fly so that his or her kid would have someone to fly with, also the parent would learn as much as the kids about the hobby. I had a least one mother who really got into the hobby, building and became an officer and instructor in a club. She turned out to be an excellent builder and flier. Several father and son duos would be at the field on a regular basis.
Nice to see at least one of us lives in a perfect world. In my world parents/adults have little time for leisure and it takes a dedicated parent/adult to allocate the time to travel to and from the field not only for a child to learn to fly but to continue on after they have their wings. Very few parents/adults profess an interest in the hobby. You mention when you had your hobby shop what happened to that? I think it would have been the perfect place to continue to teach your method. I know what you claim however that just doesn't jive with the fact no one including the AMA has expressed a real interest in your method. Not disputing it may well be a good way to teach its just not a concern of the majority. Has any club including yours endorsed your method and using it today? The rose colored glasses you wear about your method and the poor opinion you compare the other clubs are using may just have put others off about trying your method.

Dennis
Old 04-02-2019, 09:12 AM
  #136  
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http://www.amaflightschool.org/video...land-technique


I had the hobby shop for over 10 years. Just decided to retire again. Worked 32 years for GM.

​​​This article is on page 160 of the 2015 May issue of Model Aviation. By Education Director, Bill Pritchett

TEACHING THE TEACHERS PROGRAM

Teaching school teachers to fly RC aircraft and then teach them the art of teaching RC flying for their students, for me has proven to be the ultimate promotion concept.

I’ve discovered that teachers obviously already have developed the skills and the talent for not only teaching, but also self-learning.

I have had several tech teachers learn enough to be able to give their students R/C flying instruction on their schools simulators, only after 30 plus minutes of my RT instruction method.

Technology teacher Johnathan Shelley from Grand Island, NY senior high school, only had 2-15 minute lessons. As I was giving his students flying experience. He caught on so quickly that he and another teacher with the same amount of flying time flew on their own all that summer.

I am offering any teacher or hobby shop owner the same opportunity. It should only take, on the average 2-5 days, 2-4 hours per day to for most anyone to learn enough to be able to train either students in schools or customers to get them hooked on the hobby. This will definitely bring in more AMA members and customers for the industry. This will also help to get a very good jump on the learning process. I have several very wide open county owned flying sites to fly on and will be available essentially at the student’s convenience.

I realize that there are probably already many aero modeling programs in schools, but usually they have to depend on clubs for help. My program will get people safely in the air and on their own very quickly. There are probably many schools with no club help available, some schools may have teachers already in the hobby, but they may not have any flight instruction skills. The same may go for any clubs that may be in the area.

Using my method, I could easily train several teachers each day. I have students who are waiting for their turn stand close by so they will learn from the mistakes the students ahead of them are making.

Think of the numbers. How many schools are there? How many teachers? How many students? How many family members?

Keep in mind that this concept has already been proven. I just have to get people who are capable of thinking outside of the box to get on board. The problem I’ve had getting this going is from club members who are afraid of overcrowding their flight line. Unlike industry members, growth is not what clubs are comfortable with. Ironically, the growth conscience industry has no choice but to depend growth fearing clubs for all of hands-on, in-the-field promoting.

If anyone is interested, contact me via email: [email protected]

Last edited by fliers1; 04-02-2019 at 09:28 AM.
Old 04-02-2019, 04:09 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by fliers1

I just have to get people who are capable of thinking outside of the box to get on board. The problem I’ve had getting this going is from club members who are afraid of overcrowding their flight line. Unlike industry members, growth is not what clubs are comfortable with. Ironically, the growth conscience industry has no choice but to depend growth fearing clubs for all of hands-on, in-the-field promoting.
This is what I am talking about you present a positive approach to your method then in the last few sentences you berate the same clubs you are trying to convince if they don't embrace your ideas. No wonder you come up against some resistance. Think about it even if as you say hundreds have learned through your method of the many thousands who have learned I doubt you could claim more than a single percentage point. If you wish to be successful personally I think you should drop the comments about clubs, instructors or teachers who choose to teach by another method. After all many many more have learned by alternate methods than yours.

Dennis
Old 04-02-2019, 05:02 PM
  #138  
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I have been quite successful with the AMA and the hundreds of people I've trained. BTW, locally, club instructors don't want to be bothered with
instructing no matter what method they use. I have trained many from other clubs who said they learned more from me in 15 minutes than they learned from their club in several seasons. So much for the other instructors method. Have a good day.

Last edited by fliers1; 04-02-2019 at 05:07 PM.
Old 04-02-2019, 06:35 PM
  #139  
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My question would be if they weren’t interested in instructing then why the heck were they the club “ Instructors”?
Old 04-02-2019, 06:45 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
My question would be if they weren’t interested in instructing then why the heck were they the club “ Instructors”?
Good question. That is what I heard from the many beginners who came from those clubs.
Old 04-02-2019, 07:03 PM
  #141  
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One thought on that would be they enjoyed it when they became instructors. Over time, they may have gotten burned out. It does happen over time, even to me and the wife in our other hobby, dancing.
Old 04-03-2019, 03:35 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by fliers1
I have been quite successful with the AMA and the hundreds of people I've trained. BTW, locally, club instructors don't want to be bothered with
instructing no matter what method they use. I have trained many from other clubs who said they learned more from me in 15 minutes than they learned from their club in several seasons. So much for the other instructors method. Have a good day.
And again with comments like this you wonder why you have such a hard time getting your foot in the door. I don't envision many clubs/instructors extending the open hand of invitation to someone who expresses such a low opinion of them.

Dennis
Old 04-03-2019, 03:38 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
My question would be if they weren’t interested in instructing then why the heck were they the club “ Instructors”?
Been to a lot of clubs and I have never observed instructors who did not readily make themselves available to instruct or mentor new flyers.

Dennis
Old 04-03-2019, 03:40 AM
  #144  
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OK, you win. lol
Old 04-03-2019, 04:34 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by fliers1
OK, you win. lol
You don't understand at all. It’s not a mater of winning. That's not the point at all. If you feel you have a legitimate, superior method of teaching you need to promote it not by alienating those you wish to help spread the message. You need to cultivate those clubs/instructors not dwell on what you perceive to be their shortcomings. Teaching, mentoring, passing on information is all positive no mater the method. Every bit of it is important and has value. Are there better ways? Absolutely. Is yours one of them? Possibly but if you have nothing good to say about how things were done before your method came about you will alienate those who may have taught as long or longer than you and its going to be hard to get them to listen to what you have to offer. That is human nature.

Dennis
Old 04-03-2019, 04:51 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Propworn
Been to a lot of clubs and I have never observed instructors who did not readily make themselves available to instruct or mentor new flyers.

Dennis
I've been to many places where the members are so into their own little "clicks" that when someone new comes in, they will actually turn a cold shoulder to the newcomer. I saw that very thing weekend before last. A group of people from my area went to another area for an event. The wife and I were totally ignored by people we thought were our friends for the entire weekend because we are not part of their little group. They had a potluck dinner, an after party after the evening's event and never even tried to associate with us. It happens in all activities so I can totally believe Fliers1 story about how things go at the flying field
Old 04-03-2019, 04:53 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Propworn
You don't understand at all. It’s not a mater of winning. That's not the point at all. If you feel you have a legitimate, superior method of teaching you need to promote it not by alienating those you wish to help spread the message. You need to cultivate those clubs/instructors not dwell on what you perceive to be their shortcomings. Teaching, mentoring, passing on information is all positive no mater the method. Every bit of it is important and has value. Are there better ways? Absolutely. Is yours one of them? Possibly but if you have nothing good to say about how things were done before your method came about you will alienate those who may have taught as long or longer than you and its going to be hard to get them to listen to what you have to offer. That is human nature.

Dennis
You don't understand and I don't expect you to. Why? I played nice with clubs that I belonged to for decades, yet they all didn't care about a better way to bring in new members. Why?
Because they realized that if they accepted my method and it worked as well as they witnessed, my message to all clubs is that I have a way to essentially double or triple their membership in a very short time frame. Then there are those who didn't like flying with more than one or two planes in the air at the same time. That is what clubs had a problem with. Literally hundreds of those I trained who came from hundreds of different clubs over the years all told me the same story. Their club instructors were great people but due to many factors, they couldn't get much in the way of flight instruction. Many had been waiting years and had several crashes along the way, with the help of their instructors, still were waiting to learn how to fly. Some of those I trained emailed me back after I trained them and told me they were shunned by their club's instructors for going out of the fold to take lessons from someone else and finally earn their solo wings. One of my graduate students from out your way, explained how his club didn't allow him to take the wings test even though when he was with me, we went over the test and I had him practice until he got it down pat. So he joined another club and made sure he didn't tell them he took lessons from me. He passed his test with flying colors.

Some veteran pilots said they have never heard any complaints from his club's beginners. Yeah right, beginners are going to bite the hands that feeds them by voicing complaints about the shortcomings of their club's training system.

Dave Mathewson's column

What’s unique about Clarence’s method is

that he instructs without the use of a buddy
box. I’ve had several members of our District
II team who have flown with Clarence tell me
his method works, but frankly I was still a bit
skeptical, so when Clarence offered to come
to my club’s field and give a demonstration, I
took him up on his offer.
What I saw was rather impressive.
Whether it was his technique, his demeanor,
his flying ability, or a combination of all
these, I was impressed with what I saw. In
less than a tank of fuel he had one of our
members hovering a helicopter.
One of our newer students, who had only
one flight under his belt, was shooting
landings in his first flight with Clarence. This
member’s young son, after just a few minutes
with Clarence’s help, flew the remainder of
the flight up to the landing by himself.
I was most impressed with the success
my wife had. She’s flown a little on a
simulator and probably has roughly two
minutes of actual stick time on a RC model.
Clarence took the trainer to altitude and
handed her the box. After several minutes of
instruction he backed away and she flew the
remainder of the flight without any
assistance then shot a successful landing
with minimal help from Clarence.
I’m certainly not saying this technique is
for everyone, nor do I even know if it will
work for someone other than an instructor
with Clarence’s mild mannered approach,
but if you’re interested in learning more, you
can E-mail him at [email protected].





Last edited by fliers1; 04-03-2019 at 05:26 AM.
Old 04-03-2019, 05:47 AM
  #148  
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You sound so bitter I think it effects how you come across at the club/instructor level. Even your website doesn't have one good thing to say about clubs, instructors or the members. Hardly an endorsement for someone new to become involved. I wish you luck though I don't believe you will ever realize the recognition for your method with your present approach.

I did give your invite serious consideration but after looking over your website and listening to your rhetoric on ALL clubs and ALL instructors I cannot buy into this mind set. As a former chief flying instructor for more than one club I know for a fact you exaggerate. I saw none of the problems that you seem to see at any of the clubs I have belonged to. In fact at present I have been tasked to draw up a mentoring program where members would volunteer to take others like new members or members moving to a new discipline under their wing so to speak. The intent is to help with construction, setup and flight and generally make that person welcome.

Dennis
Old 04-03-2019, 06:03 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Propworn
You sound so bitter I think it effects how you come across at the club/instructor level. Even your website doesn't have one good thing to say about clubs, instructors or the members. Hardly an endorsement for someone new to become involved. I wish you luck though I don't believe you will ever realize the recognition for your method with your present approach.

I did give your invite serious consideration but after looking over your website and listening to your rhetoric on ALL clubs and ALL instructors I cannot buy into this mind set. As a former chief flying instructor for more than one club I know for a fact you exaggerate. I saw none of the problems that you seem to see at any of the clubs I have belonged to. In fact at present I have been tasked to draw up a mentoring program where members would volunteer to take others like new members or members moving to a new discipline under their wing so to speak. The intent is to help with construction, setup and flight and generally make that person welcome.

Dennis
You see what you want to see. I'll let you have the last word
Old 04-03-2019, 07:43 AM
  #150  
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As was pointed out before, how people see us online may not truly reflect the type of person we really are. I think we can all keep that in mind. As far as Fliers method is concerned, I used the same approach with my kids and it did work very well. While I have not seen unwilling instructors at the field, I have seen some that I felt were not qualified for the job and although I do not have the patience for beginning instruction I have on many occasions offered to be an " advanced instructor ". I have yet to be taken up on that offer. From my perspective, once guys can take off and land, the instructor signs them off and they simply want to do their own thing. Unfortunately that usually leads to having airplanes that are taking off and landing under semi control. I have also seen clicks develop within clubs but not as badly as others.

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