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Will AMA address second sentence in AC 91-57B "Effect of Guidance?"

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Will AMA address second sentence in AC 91-57B "Effect of Guidance?"

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Old 06-08-2019, 02:57 AM
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franklin_m
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Default Will AMA address second sentence in AC 91-57B "Effect of Guidance?"

Para 1.1 of AC 91-57B says: "1.1 Effect of Guidance. This guidance is not legally binding in its own right and will not be relied upon by the Department of Transportation (DOT) or the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as a separate basis for affirmative enforcement action or other administrative penalty. Regardless of whether you rely on this guidance, you are independently required to comply with all existing laws applicable to the operation of unmanned aircraft. Conforming your actions with this guidance is voluntary and nonconformity will not affect any right or obligation under any existing statute or regulation (empahsis added)."

Why has AMA not issued a statement regarding the second sentence?

"Regardless of whether you rely on this guidance, you are independently required to comply with all existing laws applicable to the operation of unmanned aircraft (empahasis added)."

As Public Law 115-254 (with section 349 and altitude limits) is indeed "existing law," it would seem that this is legally binding. So...... Where is AMA and their official position on the enforceability of this statement?


Note 1: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-57B.pdf

Last edited by franklin_m; 06-08-2019 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Para 1.1 of AC 91-57B says: "1.1 Effect of Guidance. This guidance is not legally binding in its own right and will not be relied upon by the Department of Transportation (DOT) or the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as a separate basis for affirmative enforcement action or other administrative penalty. Regardless of whether you rely on this guidance, you are independently required to comply with all existing laws applicable to the operation of unmanned aircraft. Conforming your actions with this guidance is voluntary and nonconformity will not affect any right or obligation under any existing statute or regulation (empahsis added)."

Why has AMA not issued a statement regarding the second sentence?

"Regardless of whether you rely on this guidance, you are independently required to comply with all existing laws applicable to the operation of unmanned aircraft (empahasis added)."

As Public Law 115-254 (with section 349 and altitude limits) is indeed "existing law," it would seem that this is legally binding. So......

Where is AMA and their official position on the enforceability of this statement?


Note 1: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_91-57B.pdf
Why? Because based on what I've observed here and elsewhere, the AMA and most members live in a bubble of immunity promulgated for years by the AMA EC. They think their stuff don't stink and they can fly whenever, where ever and how ever they want. Rules are only made to be broken!
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:37 AM
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Ask them! Last I checked none of us were authorized to comment for them in a legal capacity.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Ask them! Last I checked none of us were authorized to comment for them in a legal capacity.
I did ... several days ago. And they have yet to answer. Which speaks volumes.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:04 AM
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No, just means that your reputation precedes you and you have been assigned a low priority. They have more important things to do at the moment, like organize a successful multinational event. That would be my guess as like I have said before, nobody on RCU is authorized to comment for the organization. Kind of a useless question IMO unless its intent is simply to stir the pot some more. I'm certain the same 4 or 5 guys will show up though to dance to your broken record.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
No, just means that your reputation precedes you and you have been assigned a low priority. They have more important things to do at the moment, like organize a successful multinational event. That would be my guess as like I have said before, nobody on RCU is authorized to comment for the organization. Kind of a useless question IMO unless its intent is simply to stir the pot some more. I'm certain the same 4 or 5 guys will show up though to dance to your broken record.
That's why there was a blind copy on the email. So when I send a follow up, asking why they did not respond, the BC will see that one too. Easy was to show that AMA isn't willing to answer direct questions from members asking about the legality of what AMA says they can do...
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:44 AM
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Well since you are a huge fan of the written word, where in any AMA literature is it written that they will reply to any and all inquiries? When was the email sent? Have you considered that today is Saturday? Have you considered they are busy with the Nats?

I will never doubt your intelligence. That being said, could it be that you intentionally timed your email knowing that the response would be slow just so you had something to complain about? Yet another " Franklin spin"?
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
no, just means that your reputation precedes you and you have been assigned a low priority. They have more important things to do at the moment, like organize a successful multinational event. That would be my guess as like i have said before, nobody on rcu is authorized to comment for the organization. Kind of a useless question imo unless its intent is simply to stir the pot some more. I'm certain the same 4 or 5 guys will show up though to dance to your broken record.

minions lol!!!!!
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Well since you are a huge fan of the written word, where in any AMA literature is it written that they will reply to any and all inquiries? When was the email sent? Have you considered that today is Saturday? Have you considered they are busy with the Nats?

I will never doubt your intelligence. That being said, could it be that you intentionally timed your email knowing that the response would be slow just so you had something to complain about? Yet another " Franklin spin"?
There's been two already. One sent early last week to the government affairs email address. That went unanswered. I followed up with one to CB, JH, and cc MR, and that went unanswered as well. Four recipients and not a single response? Not even a "we're asking our lawyer..."? No. They don't want to answer. Why? Because if they say that members don't have to comply with law, the FAA isn't happy. If they say members do need to comply, then the exodus of members begins.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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I'd like to think they are mirroring your " I don't owe you an explanation " or " I don't answer to you " response that you have said to others on this forum. More of a reality is that you are such a pain in their butt they are not in a big hurry to do anything for you. The old " catch more with honey than vinegar " saying hold true. I hope you hold the FAA to the same accountability when you don't hear from them in " Your " time frame.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:05 PM
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The second sentence means you will not be violated for not following their guidance alone. The FAA WILL use non guidance against you if it results or contributes to a violation. Good question. Means the same as a Advisory C. Don't forget two things. Because of the patriot act a regulation can be a law. The FAA uses the IRS for enforcement. Is it worth it anymore to fly RC? Each RC club should have it's own legal department. I foresee AOPA expanding their legal defense insurance to RC pilots.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I'd like to think they are mirroring your " I don't owe you an explanation " or " I don't answer to you " response that you have said to others on this forum. .......................
Wow! Now there's the pot calling the kettle black. But at least Franklin tells you he doesn't owe you an explanation. You simply don't respond and disappear for a few days. To most any direct question!
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:48 PM
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ID:	2264593Recreational Flyers – Interim Safety Guidance Available to Explain How, When and Where You Can Fly Your Drone

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued interim safety guidance for https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_fliers/]recreational flyers that reinforces recent changes to how, when and where users can fly drones for recreational purposes.The FAA’s https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/1036029]Advisory Circular explains the conditions users must comply with in order to fly under the exception for recreational flyers, and simplifies information in the https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/17/2019-10169/exception-for-limited-recreational-operations-of-unmanned-aircraft]Federal Register Notice. This AC outlines https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/1036029]eight conditions:
  1. Fly strictly for recreational purposes.
  2. Follow the safety guidelines of a community based organization.
  3. Keep your drone within your line of sight, or within the visual line-of-sight of a visual observer who is co-located and in direct communication with you.
  4. Operate in a manner that does not interfere with, and gives way to, any manned aircraft.
  5. Do not fly in controlled airspace (around and above many airports) unless you are flying at a https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93769]recreational flyer fixed site that has an agreement with the FAA.
    1. Flight in controlled airspace is temporarily limited to these fixed fields. The FAA is upgrading the online system, known as LAANC (the Low Altitude Authorization and Notification Capability), so that recreational operations can get automated airspace authorizations to fly in controlled airspace. This system is currently only available for certified Part 107 drone pilots.
    2. Do not contact the local FAA Air Traffic facilities for airspace authorizations.
  6. Fly your drone at or below 400 feet when in uncontrolled or "Class G" airspace.
  7. Pass an aeronautical knowledge and safety test.
  8. Register and externally mark your drone, and carry proof of registration with you.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/]Learn more about the rules you should follow to fly your drone safely.E-mail powered by GeoSpectrum Internet Access
Visit us at www.realestate.geospectrum.com





dunno guys,
looks pretty well cut and dried to me
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Last edited by mongo; 06-08-2019 at 06:52 PM. Reason: formatting
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Well since you are a huge fan of the written word, where in any AMA literature is it written that they will reply to any and all inquiries?
The AMA leadership is there to serve its membership. PERIOD. It is ludicrous that some elevate them to a status that puts them above the membership.

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