Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

A motion before the IMAA to be discussed at the Jan 17th Board Meeting in
Orlando.

12) Motion by Tom Hammer second by Don Pemberton
Motion is made to: Petition the AMA to refrain from sanctioning Big Bird
events. Petition the AMA from using the IMAA rules in sanctioning events
that should be the sole property of the IMAA.

Reason: Increase the desirability of the IMAA as a sanctioning body. The
IMAA was founded because of a need for someone to develop and foster Big RC
Aircraft when no other sanction body wanted to do the job. Now that the IMAA
has successfully developed the Big Bird concept into the biggest special
interest group. The AMA without regard for the IMAA, sanctions IMAA clone
events removing the basic reason for the existence for the IMAA. Note that
the AMA doesn't do this to other SIG's such as the IMAC.

A complete list of the motions and discussions for this meeting may be seen
at the IMAA website.
http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/announce.html#Agenda8

Red Scholefield
AMA 951, IMAA 18939

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I think the AMA should say no to them.

Roll On 60

I think IMAA is trying to FORCE those who fly big birds to join them or call their event Little Birds with Big Wings or something like that. This petition should receive a flat NO from the entire EC if it gets that far.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Yeah that's how I read it also. I think the people paying the extra money for the "privilege" of being IMAA members have finally figured out that they can fly the giant planes without paying the additional cost.

I always wondered what the benefit of joining IMAA was.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Zero. That's why I quit it. While I was a member, all that the IMAA did was take politics in RC to a new level. Between the IMAA officials threatening to sue each other, and the destruction of the magazine by handing it over to someone who had a long history of getting nothing done on time, it seemed like the IMAA officials cared more about playing with their power than in serving the members.

If the AMA stops sanctioning events for large scale models, and insists that IMAA sanctions be used instead, all that will happen IMO is that people will stop applying for sanctions in many cases. After all, the sanction doesn't do anything of value in most cases anyway.

Thisseems to be a perfect example of how some organisations that claim to represent the interests of the modeler actually only represent the interests of their governing board.

Gordon

Roll On 60

IMAA provides nothing of value for the 20-30-40 dollars it costs to join and is the only SIG that I know of that requires all participants in an IMAA sanctioned event to be IMAA members. A big negative in my opinion and just another way to increase their membership. A quick look at the IMAA magazine and one can see why they are trying anything to increase it.

airega1

My Feedback: (204)

I have to agree with the mainstream posters, I am an IMAA member and I joined to get the mag and because it was my option to join. NOW it seems you cannot fly at an IMAA sanctioned event without membership. I showed up at an event last year with my son, and even though I had my membership card the CD was firm on his decision on not letting my son fly, so he had to join on the spot. My temperature was flairing that day, just thinking they were denying my son his day after traveling 4hrs, over some political BS rule from an organization that is offering you NOTHING!!!! This really turned me off to IMAA. I've been a member since 1986 and was by choice. one of my favorite events in VA no longer enforces the IMAA rules and everybody was happy about it.
Frank A Rega
AMA 2849
IMAA 6564---but not for long

Sport_Pilot

How can the IMAA be the largest special intrest? Look at the models on your field. Most are 40 and 60 sized models. The SIGs keep pushing the AMA to forget about the largest special intrest, those average modelers who do not belong to any SIG's.

airega1

My Feedback: (204)

ATTENTION ANY OFFICIAL IMAA PERSON READING THIS POST. I WILL JOIN EVERY YEAR, JUST DON'T FORCE ME TO JOIN BY DENYING FLYING AT AN EVENT. THAT'S BS BIGTIME, BECAUSE I HAVE ENOUGH MONEY INVESTED WITHOUT HAVING TO GIVE YOU YOUR SHARE.

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Sport_Pilot,
IMAA is a SPECIAL interest group and not a GENERAL interest group.
I'm not sure of the reason for IMAA's request, but I do know that relations have been strained between AMA and IMAA in the past.
Something happened with the Board last year regarding requiring IMAA membership to fly at a meet. Before that even if you were not a member you could fly as long as the model met the size requirement.
IMAA was originally formed to provide a clearing house for information regarding all things giant scale. In those days you bought what you needed from little Ma & Pa companies and through IMAA you got the information of who made what. Of course today is very different, you buy what you need off the shelf.
As far as the $20/yr, it's really chump change; you can barely buy a prop for that.
Maybe IMAA has just outlived it's usefulness.
BRG,
Jon

Hossfly

If any CD allowed non-IMAA members to fly at an IMAA Sanctioned Big-Bird, then that CD diluted the IMAA process and displayed undue prejudice against those that support IMAA.
Now all these so-called *Big-Birds* events, NOT IMAA sanctioned, are simply Fly-Ins with whatever requirements so designated by the event host. It is true that a so-called 80" w/s Big Bird is no longer a rare item like it was some 20 years ago and IMAA needs some changes as well as AMA.

However:>>>

Subj: Meeting and Congratulations
Date: 1/14/2004
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Congratulations on the election.

Please be advised that I, Horrace Cain, IMAA 04598, Chapter 148 Contact, strongly support these proposed motions:

11) Motion by Tom Hammer second by Don Pemberton Motion is made to: To Simplify the Registration Process by adding a column for the IMAA number to the AMA “Event Participation List from 11 and the AMA “Flight Declaration form, eliminating the need for the redundant IMAA Safety Review From and the IMAA registration from as optional. Reason: By making these changes we increase the desirability of the IMAA as a sanctioning body.

12) Motion by Tom Hammer second by Don Pemberton Motion is made to: Petition the AMA to refrain from sanctioning Big Bird events. Petition the AMA from using the IMAA rules in sanctioning events that should be the sole property of the IMAA. Reason: Increase the desirability of the IMAA as a sanctioning body. The IMAA was founded because of a need for someone to develop and foster Big RC Aircraft when no other sanction body wanted to do the job. Now that the IMAA has successfully developed the Big Bird concept into the biggest special interest group the AMA without regard for the IMAA sanctions IMAA clone events removing the basic reason for the existence for the IMAA. Note that the AMA doesn’t do this to other SIG’s such as the IMAC.

I have successfully lobbied Jetero RC Club to again sanction their annual Big Bird through IMAA for 2004. They did not do so last year, but IMAA request has been submitted for 04.

Good luck with this.

Horrace D. Cain
************************
"A Liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." -- G. Gordon Liddy
<<<

scottrc

Question? Who's insuring the IMAA? I quit going to big birg rally's because they required BOTH AMA and IMAA. They were using the AMA insurance. To me, it was a double standard.

How much will IMAA dues increase when they have to carry a seperate ryder?

Roll On 60

Scott rc:
Not all Big Birds require both AMA and IMAA, in fact most don't. There are many Big Bird Fly Ins around the country that require AMA only. Check with the club web sites, call, flyer, model aviation etc.

EC120

Just from looking at what guys fly at my club, I think NON Giant scale planes need a SIG more. Seems like everyone has a plane that would qualify as a big bird. Wouldn't the requirement of being an IMAA member kill some big bird local events? It would be landing fee+IMAA fee = not going.

Roll On 60

EC-120:
You are correct. That is why most clubs are not affiliated with IMAA. It is just another added expense with no benefit. No insurance, no nothing but some rules like no trophies, etc.

Hossfly

Where do you people get this from? Is a little learning GOOD? If so you guys are really GOOD as you have as little learning about IMAA as one can have. Inexperience is an OK thing, but one need not add such an unlearned state to it.

IMAA WEB:>>>

Sanction Your IMAA Event

This area has forms to enable you to sanction your IMAA event, as well as help
you administer your sanctioned event.
//SNIP//
Please Note: Some of the documents are in Adobe Acrobat Format. If you don't
have the Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your system, you can get it here
(free): (highly recommended)

(Use your browser "back" button after downloading to return here)

IMAA Event Sanction Form.Print this form using your browser and mail to the
IMAA Sanction Coordinator, Andy Argenio - you can send e-mail to Andy for
questions or additional information. The form must be mailed to him along with
the application for the AMA sanction. Please Note: Starting with events for
2004, the IMAA will pay the fee for the AMA sanction. <<<<<<

IT COST YOU NOTHING TO SANCTION AN EVENT THROUGH IMAA.

An IMAA Sanction is simply coordinated via IMAA rather than the AMA Coordinator. The IMMA coordinator then passes the AMA application on to AMA. The EVENT is both IMAA and AMA sanctioned.

In addition many clubs have an additional IMAA Chapter status if 5 or more IMAA members are in the club. The Chapter contact renews the Chapter Charter each year. IT"S FLOCKING FREE.

With an IMAA event the people there will be IMAA members. That is the Host's CHOICE. Like a WarBird Fly-IN Host chooses only WarBirds. THEIR CHOICE.

You can/may do as you please with your events. Do you think a Club is limited to one Fly-In?

There can be a number of Fly-Ins, such as my Club's Anniversary Fly-In, free to all and any AMA when each year we celebrate our new field, being 8 years this April with the event on May 01. We also have AMA Sanctioned: a Night Fly, Competition Fun-Fly, Warbirds Race (usually 2), very big Pattern, a Combat -- this year a Championship Points event -- and several other items throughout the year.

So if several of us want an IMAA BIG BIRD, then I feel no guilt to any other group. If you are not both an IMAA and AMA member, and you do not wish to join IMAA and/or AMA at the event, please do not expect to fly there.

Why is it so mandatory for you people to demean some specific group just because you do not care for that event?
Do your thing and let others do theirs. In addition, you do not need to worry about any Club that so chooses to host an IMAA event and whether they will get adequate attendees, because that is totally the personal business of the HOST.

All AMA has to do is require that the term Big Bird or IMAA specifications not be used in the sanction event name/advertising, etc., when not an IMAA event. No BFD. [>:]

If the AMA loses IMAA as a SIG, then AMA is the BIG LOSER because then all IMAA members would not necessarily have to belong to AMA. Why do you think AMA wanted IMAA as a SIG in the first place? Remember the old Sport Fliers thing?

Horrace Cain
AMA 539 IMAA 04598

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

IMO an IMAA sanction does cost you - it's just that the cost comes not from sending cash directly to the IMAA, but rather in lost revenue from fewer attendees, etc.

Gordon

Roll On 60

I agree. There are many clubs that have changed to AMA only Big Bird Fly Ins and increased their participation. Why would you want to pay the entrance fee and the IMAA membership fee (if you are not a member of IMAA you can't fly) to fly in a Big Bird event when you can go to many events that do not require membership in IMAA.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

So the participants of these events MUST JOIN the night flying sig, the fun fly sig, the warbird sig to particiapate????

So, a member of your club has and 100" plane, pays his dues, belongs to the AMA....but can't particpate???

I imagine that IMAA doesn't own the rights to the term "Big Bird", sesame street might, but not the IMAA

AMA the big loser??? I doubt it. Let the IMAA get their own club's chartered and insurance, wouldn't bother me a bit.

Frankly, SIGS shouldn't be allowed to impose additional fees and requirements upon members of the AMA. People join the AMA in order support and be able to participate in model aviation activities. If someone wants to donate money to a SIG, or pay to "join" the SIG, that should be voluntary.

FHHuber

If its the HOST'S CHOICE... then why would the IMAA want to FORCE the HOST to make it an IMAA Big Bird VS an ANYONE Big Bird?

If the CD wants his event to be for ANY AMA memeber's large model, instead of just IMAA member's large models, the IMAA should BUTT OUT!

EC120

Hossfly,

I agree with those that replied to you, why bother with IMAA if you can easily do it without them? I have an IMAA 'legal' airplane that I can fly in local big bird events but I am not going to join IMAA just to do it. The big events might pull off the requirement of IMAA membership but why should should smaller events throw themselves on that sword? Not saying I have a problem with clubs wanting IMAA sanctioning just not wanting it shoved down our throats.

A&P Mechanic

WOOHOO! Finally, this is getting the attention it deserves!
I have always hated that our club's jumbo fun fly was also an IMAA event, as well as being an AMA sanctioned event. Who cares about the IMAA? They ride on the coattails of the AMA, pretending to be some kind of authority on big airplanes. Pooh!
Some people at our thing get really miffed when they had to shell out another fee to be able to fly at our event. Some people didn't care, and seemed to take it in stride.
I hope the AMA shoots this thing down so hard that it never comes up again! If people want to be IMAA members, let 'em, but don't shove IMAA mandatory membership on people. The IMAA has outlived its usefulness. The AMA has always supported large airplanes. If its over 55 lbs, then get the required waiver and continue as usual. AMA has adressed the big airplane issue, and it seems to work.
Some time ago, I posted something about this on another topic similar to this. Maybe now people will find the AMA really is what we want it to be. Gus

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

In my opinion this is just an effort to get more AMA members to provide for the IMAA BOD winter vacations to Florida. Before they closed the events to non-members and became unfriendly, the IMAA was growing and reached over 12,000 members. I have heard that since they began preaching elitism current membership has dropped to less than 8,000. .

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Jim,
I agree. I've been an IMMA member a long time and I attend a lot of fly-ins in the North east. Last year was the first year in a long time that you had to show your IMMA card. Something happened last year. Too bad, I'm sure the attendance will be down this year, which hurts the IMAA and the individual clubs putting on the events.
Jon

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

Well guys - I'm not going to let this thread get by me, for I have a lot to say about IMAA. First of all - I was at the inagural meeting of the IMAA in Toledo, and backed it 100%. I had a business then - selling Quadra engines - and anything that promoted giant scale was of benefit to me. I also was a member of the STARS club in Olean, NY, and we registered as club #003.

That was back in 1980 I believe, and prior to that time, we had been flying our 1/4 scale Bristol Scouts, and beginning in 1977 we started sponsoring an "all scale meet" - the biggest scale meet in the east at the time. When we began, the models were primarily 95% small, and 5% big. By 1980 when the IMAA was formed it was probably an 80 small to 20 big ratio. By about 1985, that ratio had reversed itself, and the meet was primarily 80% big, 20% small - and the meet was sanctioned both by AMA and IMAA. There were about 150 pilots attending, and on our flyers we always advertised " ALL SCALES WELCOME". That's when IMAA started to flex their muscles and one year they told us that we could no longer fly the smaller models at our meet. Hey! "The STARS club started Giant Scale", and our scale meet was started long before IMAA was born - and we are now being told what we could and could not do! What gives with these idiots?

Well, to make a long story short, the STARS club decided to tell IMAA to go pound salt - we always welcomed "all scale models" regardless of size, and we would continue to do so. So what did the IMAA do - they kicked the STARS club out of the IMAA organization. There is no longer an #003 club, and they lost a lot of members along with their biggest giant scale club in the process.

So what effect did that have? Ever since 1985, the STARS club continued to have their "all size welcome scale" meet, now only sanctioned by AMA. IT IS AS BIG AS EVER - in 2002 we celebrated the 25th annual Scale Rally, and not having the IMAA sanction hasn't hurt the attendance one iota. We continue to see more big models than smaller ones, and you don't have to be a member of IMAA to fly there. More clubs should take heed, and give the IMAA the boot. Just go with the AMA sanction - and that is all. Do it YOUR WAY (what's best for you) within the AMA guidelines. Why let the IMAA idiots dictate to you like they tried to do to us? What have they done for your club lately? Anything at all? I doubt it. I have a lot of real nice giant scale models, but I will not fly any one of them at an IMAA sanctioned meet, even though I still belong to IMAA just to keep in touch. As far as I am concerned, the IMAA is a useless organization. They screwed up big time with the STARS.