Sport_Pilot

First off I never said that park flyers could not use our frequencies, they indeed have the same rights. That said the AMA club indeed has extra rights by being there first under civil law. Doesn't have anything to do with FCC or AMA, but the tort system. Often that right doesn't get you much, for instance when someone builds a house near an existing club and starts compaining about noise, that right doesn't get you much unless that you can prove the owner knew about the noise before moving in, hard to do. In this case the club could claim first rights to those frequencies in the immediate area. Unfortunately as you can see from the reaction here, it would be hard to make those park flyers understand this without winning a suit, or passing a new law. Though if you keep this to yourself and simply promote the fact that they the park flyer could also be shot down, then maybe they would be inclined to find a park further from the club, or better yet join the club.

abel_pranger

[quote]ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

[quote]ORIGINAL: rsallen13

Reply to Sport Flyer (post #164)

First off I never said that park flyers could not use our frequencies, they indeed have the same rights. That said the AMA club indeed has extra rights by being there first under civil law. <snip>

Sport-
You really ought to go to the FCC site and read up on the Part 95 rules.
The PRS allocation (which includes the R/C service) is open to all persons in the US, citizens and non-citizens alike. A club is not a person. A club has no rights to the frequencies, much less 'extra rights.'
Besides, the Sooners pretty much spoiled the 'being there first' legal argument when they jumped the gun on the land rush to the west and grabbed up homesteads in the Oklahoma Territory. It hasn't carried much weight since then and it's been quite a long spell since that happened.

Abel

FHHuber

The info on contacting the AMA is enclosed with just about every R/C system and model aircraft kit sold in the US already. Go through a few instruction manuals on kits, ARF's Park flyers... the Cox/Estes Sky Rangers even... its there.

Here's one from an instruction manual I had handy.... (save target to desktop and view in a paint program if you can't read it)

pete913

I'f you'd care to translate that sentance to English, I might respond to it. I'd also appreciate it if you didn't attempt to put words in my mouth. You missed the entire point of my post as well. I dont single out park fliers. I group road flyers, you know, the guys who use some section of not too busy highway as a runway? outlaws who delight in running around with a handfull of crystals shooting people down, the folks who seem to think they have some sorta RIGHT to a trial type thing at most AMA fields, in effect a free ride from the paying membership, etc etc etc, all together in the same pot. I've watched this thread since its inception, been quoted chapter and verse of the FCC regs by people who have obviously never opened the book, been quoted legalities by folks who've never called their lawyer and asked about it. If you think you can deliver an ultimatum to a pre existing sanctioned AMA club, or even a pre existing non AMA sanctioned club, telling them to stay off certain frequencies, and that it constitutes a frequency sharing agreement, I suggest you call a competent lawyer before trying it in your own community, and save yourself a lot of legal fees. (I'll give you clue 1, that's why the letter was unsigned) It'd just be way cheaper and easier to join the club, where you'd meet some people with shared interests and have some great camaraderie, but that won't happen will it? After all, the AMA dues are a whopping $58 a year, and OMG, club dues are $50!!!, and you can fly off the local highway or public park for nothing right? You'd have to use a frequency pin and all that, and you just can't be bothered with all those nasty rules, right? You tell me about elitist attitudes,, I think you need to take a look in the mirror.

pete913

I have no beef with that. All you did was reverse the bodys. He who switches on first has the frequency rights, at least up to the point where he's in range of a known established R/C club, where the park fliers obvious knowledge of it's existance, hell even the AMA's insurance dept for that matter, according to the unsigned letter, puts him way over the line of being wrong. Some fool can spend his week composing unsigned letters telling me to stay off certain frequencies to his heart's content. He's wrong, he's not only an idiot for trying it, but he knows that already or he'd have signed his lil sad ultimatum to the club "suggesting" they stay off certain frequencies.

pgitta

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry, I thought I did post in English. Perhaps it's not your first language? Which part did you have trouble with, Pete?

The. frequency. tag. is. not. displayed. on. the. antenna. of. the. transmitter.

How's that?

Words in your mouth? here'r some:


Don't bet on there not being anything the local club can't do to rid itself of possible shoot downs....

We went that route once trying to convince cheap Charlie to join the club. It's a waste of breath....

So, cheap charlie, come fly your park flyer, or your turbine jet for that matter, right across the road from this site. I dare ya...

Better have your running shoes on, cause its a looooong way to the nearest policeman...

You just won't do it again...

it'll be just too painful to repeat...

I don't have to put any words in your mouth, pal.

Don't bother with the damage control ("I'm talking about road flyers") You've made quite clear your contempt for non-club flyers and have once again mistakenly assumed it's because they want to save the money. It's not that.

They just choose not to associate with people like you.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Chill out before you stroke out dude.

Putting words in anyone's mouth is as easy as saying something they don't like, we all do it at one time or another and sometimes even on purpose.

There is nothing wrong with the park flyers, road flyers, or corn field flyers. However, not joining a club for the sole reason that you don't like one personality type that you might find in the club is a clear measure of your own personal problems. Sandy Frank is right when he contends that model aviation is a SOCIAL event. It is hard to participate in a SOCIAL event if you disdain all the other participants. If you have had a problem with a local club, look around because there ARE other clubs. I recommend new folks look at my club and 2 or 3 others before they decide where to join as the personality of the club presented at the field differs from club to club. What works for me may not work for others.

Clearly I am NOT saying that there are no idiots in clubs, but I assure you that clubs do not have a privatly (or even AMA) owned franchise on that mind set. What I AM saying is that you have to deal with them everywhere, so why not join the crowd of good folks and have help in working around the others?

the troll

What a relief...now all is well

J_R

Since Abel obviously stirred the pot to make a point, let me throw some more gasoline on the fire. Dave Brown, in a past column in Model Aviation, stated that as many as 50% of AMA members are not club members. Now, the truth is that the AMA does not know how many of it's members belong to clubs, but, assuming that he is close, what do you think that other 50% is doing out there?

J_R

Oh, what the heck. How many of you never give a second thought to the park flyer down the street, around the corner or at the local park when you are setting up a plane? Do you ever turn your Tx on in the shop?

Crashem

JR,

AMA membership is really irrelevent to the question at hand.

What has bothered me about this thread has been the attitude of AMA club members that believe that because they belong to the AMA and a club they have more of a "right" to the R/C frequencies then others. I simply haven't found a single arguement that backs up that assumption.

For those armchair lawyers I did speak with a (lawyer) buddy here's what 2 coors lights worth of legal advice bought me?

"The only winners will be counsel for the plantiffs and defendents."

So my suggestion is try to get along if you can't be prepared for the consequences

the troll

I really have to strongly disagree with the premise you assert. Social aspects are incidental in the hobby. There are many that enjoy the hobby virtually without any social interactions.

The disdain some may be of just one type! You know... the type that believes primarily “model aviation is a SOCIAL event"...

I don’t fish to interact with others but there is a time when that does occur and it is all good…but many times I like to go fishing just by myself…same for model flying.

J_R

From a legal point of view, I am positive your friend is corrrect. As a practical matter, the winners and losers will be those that pick up the pieces of their planes and are never sure why. How many suspected shoot downs have you heard about? How many were actually battery problems? How many lawsuits were filed. I know of one... a small claims action.

Sterotyping club members or park flyers is unfair to both. Getting along is the best advice in the thread. I doubt that the consequences involve legal action except in a very very small percentages of cases. There are always some... in any endvor... that are on the fringe. As for the rest of us, we enjoy the hobby, and try to share it with anyone that will hold still.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Bill,
You are welcome to strongly do whatever it is you feel is best for you. If that gives you problems I have another suggestion for you.

I have no brief with those who insist on their right to fly by themselves. If it floats your boat, paddle away, however IF you get hurt it might be to your advantage to have a friend around. But if you elect not to, it becomes YOUR problem rather than mine. The social aspects of FLYING (which is NOT all of the hobby for me but MAY be for you) are part of the equation and I recognize rather than run from.

Comparing fishing with flying is rather odd, so maybe you need those other suggestions. Fishing is a lot of patient waiting with little physical or mental effort being expended until you get a bite. I know of several who reel the fish in and release it because they are there for the peace and quite. Flying requires application of some physical effort coupled with a significant mental investment into the activity itself.

If you must, you are welcome to try that one again.

the troll

I must...


To nail the point home! BTWWITHIB...Did you catch that?

I seems apparent that you and I fish and fly a lot differantly...I expend a whole lot more energy and thought into fishing than I do while flying...I guess inverse to your perspective. I relax a whole lot more while flying...Maybe it is just because I am a much better flyer and fisherman than you[X(]

Of course you want get it...ever

pete913

Thank you God.

Hossfly

Ha Ha Now here is one that doesn't fish much, or that is all he does -- just fish -- and no catching.

I would love to be there with popcorn and a brew, when the above quoted individual pops out that statement among a group of BASS MASTERS. My bet is that such a statement in such company would definitely show where "little ... mental effort" really is. I wanna' see that I do!!![sm=lol.gif]

Hossfly

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I am involved in an effort to make a new kind of radio that does not use "channels" in the way we do now. You do not need to wrorry about who else in "on" and you cannot shoot someone down, unintentionally or otherwise.

The new system was not meant to address this "park flyer" problem in particular, but it is indeed a technological solution that offers the potential to make things like "site seperation" a thing of the past.

We presented the system to the AMA Frequency Committee last month and it was briefed to the full EC last week.


So there is an effort to get into the modern age here. It is definetly not as "easy" as some here have indicated, but it is not a long way off, I can assure you.

john 8750

Until that new system comes along, get a Berg reciever. It will ignore other transmitters on your channel.

[8D][8D]

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi John,

Not to get into an arguement, but I don't really think that is how things work.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Bill,
Your 'handle' clearly indicates that you are a much better fisherman than I EVER intend to be or have been in the past. I DO NOT fish or golf and leave those pastimes to such as you and Horrace.

As for you flying capabilities, that remains to be seen since all the rhetoric in the world is just white noise.

the troll

Earl

Thanks for the compliment...I never could figure out whether those that called me a troll thought I lived under a bridge or was a fisherman Hmmm...Maybe I am a fisherman that lives under a bridge[X(]Anyway

I hope we get to fly together soon and settle this brief. LOL Maybe we can settle it on neutral ground...a park? Somewhere? Maybe we should pick one somewhere in the middle of Texas and you should start writing some letters. [X(][sm=lol.gif]

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

may i sugest a bit of open property in the minot area<G>

abel_pranger

Good idea, set the stage for a duel. G62 powered precision scale Brewster Buffalo vs raggedy outlaw foam park flier, on the same channel of course to make it sporting. The Brewster belongs to a member of the local AMA club, which asserts divine right to the R/C frequencies allocated by FCC. Will divine intervention save the Brewster pilot's butt?
Stay tuned to this station for the next exciting episode....

Abel

john 8750

No argument from me Matt.
But that is what Berg says about their receivers and, I read from other post that it actually works.