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Park flyer frequencies

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Old 02-01-2004, 01:42 AM
  #1  
michael1
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Default Park flyer frequencies

Would like to see these guys using other than our 72 mhz. Had an issue last fall where a park flyer may have shot down a turbine jet. Having pagers between us is bad enough. With all the channels avail. no reason they cannot be spaced further apart.
Thanks
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Old 02-01-2004, 02:17 AM
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FHHuber
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

This has been discussed.

Problem... to do it would require changing the FCC frequency allocations. You can't enforce a re-divide of the allocation any other way.
(You want to VOLUNTEER to change allocations when the pager guys want the ones we have? [>:]OOOoooo the RC guys want just 5 frequencies for Park Flyers and 10 for other aircraft... the rest we can grab.[>:])

Who's radios are you going to make obsolete? The Park Flyers or the larger models? Who's going to PAY when that happens? The guy who owns the now unusable radio, so SOMEONE is going to SCREAM.

What is the answer? Short term there is none. Long term there is none that is guaranteed.

We can only do the best we can to try to educate people of the danger they could create by not reading that little notice that comes with each RC system. ("Do not operate within 3 miles of an established RC flying site...." )

Sorry... Your requested action just won't be happening.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:30 AM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

There's a simple answer. Put ALL the park flyers on one channel #59. Then everyone else knows which channel to avoid. Since most park flyers don't know about or care about frequency control and frequency sharing, let them shoot each other down on #59.
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Old 02-01-2004, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

You cannot legislate common sense. The cold hard facts are that most
of the park fliers don't have a clue or don't care. There is a lake a couple
of miles from one of our flying fields (a city owned park with posted regulations)
where I regularly see r/c boats operated on flying frequencies. What are you
gonna do shoot 'em (thats just a joke guys).
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Old 02-01-2004, 01:45 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: tommy s

You cannot legislate common sense. The cold hard facts are that most
of the park fliers don't have a clue or don't care. There is a lake a couple
of miles from one of our flying fields (a city owned park with posted regulations)
where I regularly see r/c boats operated on flying frequencies. What are you
gonna do shoot 'em (thats just a joke guys).
In that case... call a local cop... hand him a copy of the FCC regs... send him over to ENFORCE THE LAW.

Lets see.. caught in the act of violating that one can give a fine of $10,000... I forget how many years in prizon. ONE guy going to court with that hanging over his head for operating a "toy boat" will make a heck of a splash on the news.

Would it be good publicity? Not really.

Would it make people start to THINK about following the rules for a change? YES!

Would a prosecuter actually go through with it? No.... he's gotta remember to have a reputation as a "good guy" so he can get elected.
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

THe park flyers that I have seen have been on 27mhz.
THis is not to say that all of them are on 27mhz but some of them are.
How should the market handle this?
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

in that case... call a local cop... hand him a copy of the FCC regs... send him over to ENFORCE THE LAW.
do you think a cop is really going to want to deal with this? he would have to actually go check the boat tx to verify it is on that frequency. not to mention, you risk making an enemy who might just decide it is a good day to buy a park flyer on your freq.

as far as park flyers, they have just as much right to fly as you do, even if you are at an ama field. in fact, you are more likely to be at fault, since the only fcc reg that would apply here is INTENTIONAL disruption of a signal. the parkflyer has no idea he might be disrupting you, but if you fly and crash the park flyer into a car, YOU are at fault. AMA may not cover you, since they do specify flying sites must be more than 3 miles apart. a city park does qualify as a flying site, and could jeopardize ama coverage for the field.

the joys of unlicensed spectrum! everyone is free to do whatever they want with it! move to 53mhz if that bothers you. What we need to solve this problem isn't more rules, regulatations, or enforcement of ones that may or may not exist. it isn't that hard to solve it with a technology solution, it exists in many other areas, but hasn't made it to RC yet. (maybe spread spectrum packetized transmissions, you could easily fit a couple hundred planes flying AT ONCE on the bandwidth we use, and the best part is that a technology like that would easily co-exist with existing systems until they were phased out.)



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Old 02-01-2004, 06:52 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: michael1

Would like to see these guys using other than our 72 mhz.
Define 'our'

Abel
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

do you think a cop is really going to want to deal with this?
Someone didn't read my whole post...

No, I don't think the cop would bother with it... he'd just laugh at you.

BUT... if that guy running the boat using an airplane frequency gets caught when he shoots down an airplane, and someone got hurt, he'll be wondering why he's in jail.

So actually... you'd be doing him a favor by sending the cop to tell him to fix it.
(but no one is going to see it that way if you do it...)

********

As for needing rules and regulations... yes we do need practically all of them that we have... we don't really have many.

And we need people to QUIT saying its a bad thing that rules shold be obeyed.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

if people listened to you, fh, then slavery would not have been abolished, cause it was legal and within the rules of the time.
wemmon would not have the right to vote now.
segregation would not have been ended.
it took civil disobediance of "rules" to accomplish those things.

bad rules need to be ignored, where ever they occur.
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:11 AM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

The industry shot itself and the rest of us in the foot when it started calling these things " Park flyers" in the first place, and ACTUALLY ENCOURAGED people to go fly them in the local park. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! Even more unbelievable is the AMA ignoring them doing this. I don't know about your local park, but in mine, this kind of activity would simply not be tolerated by the park system. You think they're gonna be liable for an accident? Think your local parking lot owner is gonna shoulder the liability for an accident on his property? Think again. Mark my words, if this kind of thing doesn't cease, it'll lead to licensing of all model RADIO operators, no matter what or where they're operating, and maybe that isn't such a bad idea. Show the LHS owner your license, or you wont' buy it, or get caught flying without a license and go to jail. Thats probably what it'll take to end this farce . I for one am damned tired of this " I'm gonna do what I want, where I want, at any time I want, and to hell with everyone who doesn't like it" attitude. Grow up and show some personal responsibility. When some jerk who thinks he has some kinda "right" to fly his stuff in the local park winds up jeopardizing my rights to fly at an AMA approved field with his irresponsibility, well it isn't gonna be pretty, and sooner or later, if not already, that's what'll happen.
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

Pete,
What do you want AMA to do? They have no legislative powers, they can't force anyone to do anything, including obeying their safety code. The only thing they can do is not provide insurance coverage for members who break the rules. If you're not a member-oh well. AMA is trying to find ways to get park fliers to join, I'm sure the $58 would be welcome, but the great majority have not joined.
Jon
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: mongo

if people listened to you, fh, then slavery would not have been abolished, cause it was legal and within the rules of the time.
wemmon would not have the right to vote now.
segregation would not have been ended.
it took civil disobediance of "rules" to accomplish those things.

bad rules need to be ignored, where ever they occur.
THAT is aboput the STUPIDEST thing I hav EVER seen posted here.
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

1. Most of the "toys" are not sold by hobby shops, but by Toys R US and other toy outlets. Almost all of the "toys" are on 27.

2. The 72 band does belongs to the citizens of the US, not the AMA, it's members or clubs.

3. A lot of the "good stuff" is being flown by AMA members on 72.

4. There is no inherent right for AMA chartered clubs to use the frequencies.

5. The AMA has spent a lot of time, effort and money trying to get manufacturers to include information in their products, explaining the frequency situation.

6. The AMA has an intoductry membership for $19.95 that is aimed at the park flyers.
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:23 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: FHHuber



THAT is aboput the STUPIDEST thing I hav EVER seen posted here.
That proves what I thought...you don't read your own crap...Have a beer and chill at your speak easy bud!
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:30 AM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: the troll

ORIGINAL: FHHuber



THAT is aboput the STUPIDEST thing I hav EVER seen posted here.
That proves what I thought...you don't read your own crap...Have a beer and chill at your speak easy bud!
He probably does not drink because the AMA code says you can not drink before you fly, and it does not say how long before. That means that if you ever have had a drink, ever, you can't fly, the way he interrprets the rules.
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

What I'm saying is that anytime one of these park fliers, or any other kind of R/C model for that matter, is flown in an inappropriate area, it reflects badly on all of us who DO follow the rules. I don't expect the AMA to do anything about it, but way back when this park flier phenomenon first occurred, I do think they should have said to the manufacturers, " hey, people are now going to be flying these things all over , not just at model airplane fields, and we think you made a mistake advertising them in this way, as if flying them just any old place was appropriate". The more I think about it, the more I like the licensing idea for model radio operators. At least they'd know after taking a test and passing it, that they could cause problems for others who might be out of their sight, but still in their transmitters range, which I doubt even enters some of their minds. At least then they couldn't claim ignorance as an excuse to accidentally shoot someone down. I'm a ham radio operator. I had to take and pass several levels of tests to be able to operate my equipment on frequencies doled out to us by the FCC. And if I operate on frequencies outside my license agreement, the FCC may show up at my door. If its coming down to where people won't operate their equipment as the FCC rules tell them to, then maybe it's time for the FCC to get involved in policing it. As far as folks flying this kind of stuff in the local park or parking lot, if accidents happen, and someone gets hurt, or there's property damage and a lawsuit over it, watch your city council scream to stop ALL R/C flying.
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Old 02-02-2004, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: the troll

ORIGINAL: FHHuber



THAT is aboput the STUPIDEST thing I hav EVER seen posted here.
That proves what I thought...you don't read your own crap...Have a beer and chill at your speak easy bud!
OK "Einstien" where is the logical comparison of... Slavery to a safety regulation? How is trying to get someone to not kill themselves through STUPIDITY evil?
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

pete913

At one time we all had to be licensed by the FCC. That was a joke. You sent in the fee and back came the license. No test, no nothing. Look at the ham license now; it's much easier to get the basic license than it once was. The FCC has neither the personnel or the desire to police our operations. They can't keep up with the stuff that they do want to police.

In my community, RC devices have been banned from parks for several years. The way I heard it, some kid terrorized toddlers with RC an car. There is a group of RC parkflyers that have banded together to try and get the city to set aside some room for them. Maybe... when there are enough of them, and they form an AMA club, they will have the power to pull it off. Until then, if you tick the cop off, he confiscates the equipment, gives you a ticket and you get to go tell it to the judge.

I posted this 18 months ago, and everyone laughed. It has become more common since.
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

Yep same here, no motorized anything in a park.

We think that a glider might meet the letter of the law, but once you flew one they would change the park rules to get rid of that too.
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: Thank you

I was feeling a little uptight until I read the posts above. I guess I'm not as uptight as I thought.

I fly in the park and use an AM radio and a frequency flag. Only ever saw one other user in my local parks though. Not many jet turbines in the park around here. I envy ya. Enjoy,
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:59 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: FHHuber



OK "Einstien" where is the logical comparison of... Slavery to a safety regulation? How is trying to get someone to not kill themselves through STUPIDITY evil?
Who is making such a comparison here? You fail to see the point...it is really dark up there isn't it?

If you want to read ONE of the most stupid posts ever read post #2 in this thread.
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

Les see... Post 2 this therad... I noted the problem was discussed and the reasons it don't work.

The results of a 400 post thread (if we can ever find it)
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

ORIGINAL: rkramer

in that case... call a local cop... hand him a copy of the FCC regs... send him over to ENFORCE THE LAW.
>>>SNIP<<<<<<

as far as park flyers, they have just as much right to fly as you do, even if you are at an ama field. in fact, you are more likely to be at fault, since the only fcc reg that would apply here is INTENTIONAL disruption of a signal. the parkflyer has no idea he might be disrupting you, but if you fly and crash the park flyer into a car, YOU are at fault. AMA may not cover you, since they do specify flying sites must be more than 3 miles apart. a city park does qualify as a flying site, and could jeopardize ama coverage for the field.

t<<<<<<More Snip>>>


Ryan
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Where the devil do you get that crap?
The AMA will not CHARTER a CLUB whose flying field is within 3 miles of ANOTHER CLUB's flying field unless there is a Frequency-sharing Agreement.
Compare that with your statement.
Please--just TRY to get it right once in a while, rather than blaming the great ogre AMA...
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Old 02-02-2004, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: Park flyer frequencies

The AMA has nothing to do with if a person (non AMA member, OR AMA member) can go to a park, pull out a park flyer and switch on his radio.

Though the AMA would probably be unhappy of a member knowingly went and did that... what if he doesn't now there is a R/C club 2 miles down the road?

There is ONE of the core problems. People need to know where the established RC flying sites are if they are to avoid interference problems. Non-AMA members often skip all the readoing of the safety warnings... and happily go to the nearest park to fly. (not knowing they are causing a problem.)

Aome AMA members might be inclined to do the same thing... There is a neat open vacent lot 2 blocks from my place. Great spot for a Park Flyer.... but I know that 1.5 mi the other direction is a site where RC helis are commonly flown. (And that's not an AMA sanctioned club site...) I also know that 3.5 mi from me another direction is a person's home.... he has an RC field in his 6 acre back yard. I also know there's a field at a park (this one IS an AMA club field...) 11 mi from my door.

How many people KNOW how many places stuff is getting flown near them? (there's more flying going on than you think... I suspect 5 more sites within 4 mi of my place of being commonly used for R/C flying! NONE having anything to do with AMA members.)
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