Hossfly

Our club received a request for FAI Scale Team assistance. The President was requesting some input about the request. A great administrator but not overly experienced in the AMA world, he is a definite LEADER and will be better.

Here is what he said and what I responded. ( His use of EC refers to Club's Exec. Comm.)>>>>

In a message dated 3/11/2004 5:17:15 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes:

//SNIP// I need some help on this request as I was unable to make the meeting last month. What are we going to do about the request made by Lloyd Roberts, U. S. Scale Team Manager for Donations. As is stated in the February minutes:
'Lloyd Roberts, the U. S. Scale Team Manager sent a letter asking for AMA Club Donations to the Scale Team to help them get to the World Scale Aeromodeling Championships in Poland this summer. Donors will get raffle ticket chances on a choice of over 30 gift certificates values at $40 to as much as $250. A $5 donation gets one ticket, or 3 tickets for $10.'

My first thought on this is that I would like to know who they are and what they do at this competition. Then, if it is the consensus of the EC, we as a club should support their efforts by contributing $5 per member for a total of $540.
This is a minimum. This amount will provide the club with 540 raffle tickets . We could go all out and send $1080 for 1620 tickets. The third option is to pass the word along on this via the newsletter and allow individual members to contribute on their own, or, do nothing as it might set a precedent whereby every AMA group will have their hand out to go somewhere.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER PLEASE.
Duane
<<<<<<<<
MY informal ANSWER
>>>>>>>>

All Federation Aeronautique Internationale (FAI) teams usually request help in one way or another to defray their team and individual expenses. While not new, the direct club contact isn't as often as other methods.
Normally FAI World Championships are held for various events each two years. There is a program of qualification to make the team. FAI event rules are generally much more detailed than AMA Rule-Book competition rules. In addition there are certain countries that significantly support their teams through government programs. In the USA, any support for this direct ambassadorship of sport and good will is disregarded by our government and AMA provides the absolute minimal support other than hosting occasional World Championship Events.
These team persons do their own thing to both qualify and then attend the World Championships at mostly their own expense. In my opinion, such lack of support from this country is a shame. I usually lend some support to certain teams when requested. I have purchased 30 tickets at 3 for $10.

If the Club should so desire I would suggest a token donation of perhaps 6 tickets for $20. Then if anything is won, then that item could be given as a Door Prize at some future meeting. I don't think they expect any significant amount from anyone club. If 25% of the clubs gave an average of $20 that would be about 600 clubs at $20 each or 12000.00 which would probably pay for the team's lodging food and local travel expense during the contest in Poland in July.
While AMA offers some $700 per individual the person will have air fare of $1200-1600, plus $800 per shipped model. Add food and lodging plus local team transportation and it will cost a guy at least $3000 to represent this United States at the WC, if just one airplane and most will have a back-up.

They are simply trying to get some help. BTW there is also a significant entry fee of several hundred dollars per contestant and team manager plus a lesser fee for his helper.

Did you know that < Club Member > Pat Wilcox's son Mike is the reigning Control Line World Champion from 2002 in China. He will defend his title in July in the US at Muncie in the 2004 FAI World Championship Control Line Contest. I am betting that there will be little news attention outside what the AMA feeds the Choir. 31 countries are scheduled to have teams attend and I predict almost no one outside Muncie, other than those involved, will ever know.

Yes, I believe in support of our FAI programs.

Horrace
<<<<<<<<<

edited to correct my own math.

My question to you is, "Do you think AMA should extend effort and some financial support to insure the U.S. State Department, State of Indiana, FOX NEWS, CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC are well aware of the meeting of International Good Will?"

Jim Thomerson

That is one of the things the AMA is for. It is called promoting model aviation. Too bad we don't do it. This is my major gripe with the AMA leadership.

Jim

FHHuber

Well... his math is wrong on how many tickets he'd be getting... at 3 tickets for $10.... (540/10)*3 = 162 tickets, not 540 And he sure as heck isn't getting 1620 tickets for a $1080 donation. (try 324)

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

The AMA should be footing the complete bill (or at least a major portion of it) for two reasons one it will accomplish part of their mission and two it would increase interest and involvement by modelers who otherwise do not attempt to qualify because of the costs involved.

Depending on the location of the event the AMA should BUDGET for between $1000.00 and $3000.00 per team member to help them compete at the majority of the FIA World Events for modeling.(I might be more for certain events)


Even if $1 of our dues went to this that is over $150,000.00. Plus you could add in a portion of the sanctioning fees changed for competition type event and we might have close to $200,000.00 to use to actually PROMOTE the hobby versus spending the money on "other EC related projects"(anyone remember the "Risk Management Classes" )

But I'm sure J_R will come in and tell us why AMA doesn't do it and why it will never happen.

Jim Thomerson

I'm all for risk-management classes too. Someone at HQ ought to have a clue.

Jim

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Question;

Did the AMA fund DB's trip to land the overseas RC airplane flight?

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

He answered that a while back in the AMA Mag and I believe the answer was, no the AMA did not fund his trip.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks, I was going to rant...but I can't now.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

I say the AMA is doing enough financially to support the team. I also think manufacturers should support the team as well as promote events nationally and worldwide. They are the ones who stand to benefit from theses events the most. I disagree with the notion that "growing the hobby" benefits the average modeler. The end result of more people joining RC is crowded flying sites, maybe more sites but farther away from urban centers so is there really a payoff? Sure more models sold mean lower prices but havn't we seen a decline in profiency of the average modeler so why is it a net gain to me?

I would also like to know what countries are sponsoring their teams at theses competitions.

Let the manufacturers pony up as that is the American way. If people want to donate or clubs decide to do so that is great also but I don't think it is the obligation of the AMA.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

"The AMA should be footing the complete bill (or at least a major portion of it) for two reasons one it will accomplish part of their mission and two it would increase interest and involvement by modelers who otherwise do not attempt to qualify because of the costs involved. "

-- The AMA's mission as I understand it is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity. This is a bit sticky because I can see where sponsoring pilots could meet this mission, but the return is small for the AMA so I fully understand why they don't sponsor pilots. First, FAI anything is not a AMA contest. The contest in question isn't even held in the United States, this limits exposure to AMA's base population. I see the returns on investment being very small. While technically sponsorship may meet the mission statement, it is a poor investment and the money is much better spent on other activities that also meet the mission statement.

I realize that other countries sponsor pilots of such events... but that sounds like a socialist thing. My guess is the countries that do sponsor pilots have many socialist type programs... not for me. State sponsorship won't happen anytime soon is this country. Even the Olympics are not sponsored well by the state.


"I disagree with the notion that "growing the hobby" benefits the average modeler. "

-- Well, shrinking the hobby would not benefit the average modeler, in fact, I'd say it would harm the average modeler. There may be some growing pains if the hobby grows rapidly, such as crowded fields, but more fields would eventually pop up to take on the loads. As for the average modeler, more RC planes means more products and better prices. This could even apply to AMA dues, but I'd rather not open that can. I'd say there are benefits the average modeler will realize if the hobby grows, and there are serious consequences to the average modeler if the hobby shrinks... like your field disappears and the FCC takes away the RC freqs because hardly anyone flys RC anymore.

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

The AMA would not be "sponsoring pilots" but assisting the qualifiers in participating in the FIA evens similar to how the Olympic commitees assist atheletes so they can participate in world events.

The FIA events are held all over the world and the AMA is a member organization of the FIA and as such FIA events are AMA events.

FIA World Control line is being held in the USA this year. The main reason other FIA events have not been held here is because the USA has not be selected by the FIA to hold these events. I think part of that is our voluntary lack of funding for such an event.

If they would actually spend money supporting the mission statement then I could agree with you, but if properly promoted to the main stream media a FIA international event could be one of the best forms of advertisement for this hobby/sport.

Then at that point we could get the manufacturers involved through corporate sponsorships.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

You guys need to keep one small (according to some) fact in mind when you propose the AMA just fund it all to accomplish their mission.

YOU ARE THE AMA! So that means YOU want more of your dues going to the FAI teams. Make sure that is what you want to sign up that for before you beat up the subject of not enough being done.

It is hard to believe that the same guys wailing about $58 for dues want to spend more on recognition! That is the issue. Horrace has fooled you guys into believing that lots and lots of NATIONAL publicity will positively impact YOUR club. I suggest you think about that one a bit before you buy into some foolishness.

Consider some RAW numbers. We can assume that there are around 200,000 modelers out there to make waves with the media. Care to bet how many hockey fans there are? Then tell us how much air time hockey games get. More importantly take a guess how much money crosses palms to make what does see NATIONAL air time happen. What "sponsor" do you want to see raise prices to be able to afford the advertising budget to support such a show? I would like to have the interest on that for a couple of years, but then I have been told I am greedy.

So lets change the paradigm a bit and consider what we are comparing our activities with. Lets start with small sports events that DO get SOME air time. Consider how many fans go to hockey games. Compare that with how many fans go to pattern contests. Unfair you say? O.K., I am a nice guy so lets just compare the number of fans at your pattern contest with the number of spectators at the Reno races. That should be similar enough and many of us have been to those. Before you jump on that bus, tell us all when the Reno races last got national television coverage.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that we don't need recognition and I am not saying we cannot get any television air time. I AM saying that television air time impacts the local folks more and if the local clubs are willing to invest the time and effort, they CAN, and DO regularly get television air time.

Jim Thomerson

I contribute a little bit to help out the World Champs competitors through my SIG, as do many others. It makes me feel pretty good. That money I put in my specific pot in contrast to supporting all AMA activities through my dues (which is fine with me).

I am much in agreement with the point that we have a job to do at the local level. I have found it very easy the get local newspaper and TV coverage of events. If you do go for coverage, just make sure they don't interview the club idiot.

Jim

the troll

Guys

I think the state of the hobby is pretty darn good right now. Overall size is just fine...recognition is just fine. Of course some tweaking would suffice on some fronts but I would really like to see US get behind the best of the best here and go kick some foreign arse. Heck if rounding the cost of AMA to an even sixty bucks is all it would take to inspire the best to be better that is just fine by me. I would also like to see something on the order of the late TOC included as a top priority.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I'm in agreement with you Mr. Troll.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

You hear that Horace? If they come to your field DON'T talk to the reporters.

Hossfly

Your first paragraph is far too indicative of such a limited perspective reference cause and effect that intellectual discourse appears seriously hampered.

For any planned contest the list of the countries fielding teams is always readily available for your consideration. Further considerations concerning those countries sponsoring such teams may well be invited through the investigation of the relative Socialism within the specific governmental structures. As for myself, I have no reason to investigate such.

Reference the obligation of AMA and the FAI teams, perhaps a review of the AMA Bylaws Article II, (l) and (p) would better inform one of that subject in order to present coherent dialogue.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

OK Horace let's do it your way...
So your trying to say I don't know what I'm talking about so why bother? Yet you do.
You have no reason to back up your previous statement? You said other countries sponsor their teams so our goverment should do the same. I asked for an example and you can't give me one. You're talking out your Horseass again.
Horace my hobbies are RC planes and posting on RCU. Yours are being a bigwig at your field and busting the balls with the AMA. You go and read the rules and magazine and find miniscule points to debate and I'll go build, fly and bust your balls.

the troll

Clear and concise and without doubt... The Troll credo…BB I always knew it but you were not supposed to blatantly admit to it…Bad troll…bad troll

Hmmm... Why can't all of US Trolls just get along?[X(]

the troll

Yea Japan,Taiwan and China should sponser us... Great plan...the man err..troll is a genius

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Rasllen: I have no doubt that AMA assistance for pilots would help the hobby and meet the mission statement. I also agree that the AMA could do a lot more to meet their mission statement. The problem that I have with such help is the cost could be high with respect to the returns. I'd rather the AMA invest in local projects which would have a better return before they start putting a lot toward international competition.

A FAI contest won't do much to promote the hobby to the general public because public coverage will be poor. I really doubt ESPN or the like would cover such an event. Interest in RC, the AMA and local clubs needs to start at the local level. Most persons now days probably get interested in RC when they see a plane in their local hobby store or when they drive by the local RC club.

Yesterday, I went to my local hobby shop, HobbyTownUSA south Lincoln store, which is the corporate flagship store for HobbyTown corporate, which is based in Lincoln, NE. I dropped of some more club info packs to put on display in the RC plane area of the store. I noticed, for the first time, they had on display AMA info packs. I had no idea even such a thing existed. It was a color folder loaded with brochures explaining the AMA. If clubs gave such a pack out to all new members, a lot of confusion on why they need/should to join the AMA would be nipped in the bud.

As for the AMA better spending monies on promoting the hobby, how about programs geared toward the local level to help clubs promote themselves and the hobby. Maybe some form of support for local club airshows open the to public. A info pack on how to publicize such events on radio, TV, newspaper, etc. Such events could be a new source of revenue for clubs and would present a positive image to the community, generate new members, etc.

Traveling NATs was before my time as a AMA member, but from others that mentioned when the NATs were in Lincoln in the 80's, it had good public attendance. How about the AMA working on setting up a "Mini Nats" that each district could hold each year. Clubs could bid for hosting such that the location traveled around the district.

Just ideas... maybe they are bad or won't work for various reasons. I just feel more support at the local level is needed before the AMA heavily supports at the international level.

Later.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Hossfly

JohnW your ideas are in action in many places. Many local clubs get LOCAL attention. That is good. One local Houston Club that pushes big bird flying with a really big show each Sep. gets LOTS of LOCAL TV time. They get 4-6000 spectators at a good fee each year. OTOH the person that runs the club had a unique way to do so. Rumor is that he simply donates some 10 grand each year to the station employee's special benefit fund. Of course the event makes a 100 grand so the return is well worth it.

IMO it is NOT AMA's place to assist on the LOCAL level with monetary help other than legal in case of loss of site or serious accidents. It is AMA's place to assure the preservation of the sport. To do so, Model Aviation needs to be recognized outside the Choir. The sport needs to be something that people think of as a GOOD thing when they hear it mentioned.

Recognition and acceptance on a National level is what makes LOCAL political entities favor the activity when Clubs pursue flying sites etc. It's MORE like EDUCATION to the masses rather than pursuit of more actual fliers and AMA members. Do you think every TV commercial is expected that it will make you run out and buy the product? Of course not. It is designed to educate you to KNOW and CONSIDER that product when you see it and you need something to do that job. Likewise education of masses to a good activity will have many pluses down the road.

Funding the FAI teams is, IMO, one of the items like the scholarship program funding. Far too little just to fill a square. As anyone can see here, there is little understanding of the FAI program, and even less desire to assist those that do try to be better than the regular level. Few see the need for excellence. Few understand that this RC hobby/sport can be shut down at a snap of a finger. Somewhat sad.

For the record, I do NOT expect any government sponsorship of any team whatsoever it is for. I am NOT a Socialist. I don't expect AMA to fully fund the program, yet more could be done even such as matching funds. If I had any say, recognition of the International Good Will and recognition of model aviation on a National Scale would be of the highest priority.

As far as the Industry support is concerned, I have the list of donors to the Scale Team. Only the small people and "garage operators" of US manufacture are there. The only biggies are DuBro Products and Frank Tiano Enterprises. Even Brodak, a CL unit is there, but those with BIG catalogs and web sites are MISSING.

FHHuber

Well... If you are so sure the "missing" companies should be donating... write them letters asking them to donate. Maybe they will. Maybe ist simply... no one has asked.