AMA Sanctioning for events
05-19-2004, 08:08 AM
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AMA Sanctioning for events
A few years ago a member from our club decided he wanted to become a CD. I saw no problem with this, what ever floats his boat. Our club is small (40-50 members) and we only held a couple club member only events a year. For the past few years our appointed club CD has been filing with the AMA to have our events “sanctioned†by the AMA. Again I saw no problem with this what ever floats his boat, I thought maybe he likes seeing our club and his name listed on the events calendar in Model Aviation.
Ok now I have a problem. Call me stupid but I just found out that it cost $ to have events sanctioned by the AMA. All of the events are only open to club members and are held at our club field. This year we have four events that will be sanctioned and if the cost is the same as last year, $20 an event, the way I see it we just wasted the yearly dues of three and a half members. I can think of a much better way to spend $80 of the club scanty income than this.
Here’s the question, I want to hear from you all what benefit does our club get for having events sanctioned?
Ok now I have a problem. Call me stupid but I just found out that it cost $ to have events sanctioned by the AMA. All of the events are only open to club members and are held at our club field. This year we have four events that will be sanctioned and if the cost is the same as last year, $20 an event, the way I see it we just wasted the yearly dues of three and a half members. I can think of a much better way to spend $80 of the club scanty income than this.
Here’s the question, I want to hear from you all what benefit does our club get for having events sanctioned?
05-19-2004, 08:36 AM
#2
RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
Well on the plus side. If your field is not an AMA sanctioned field for the whole year it buys your club insurance for that one weekend event.
The paperwork tells the AMA that there are real living modelers out here having fun.
And yep it gets your club's name and location out there on the competition calender.
Bad side, as you said club looses AT LEAST $20.00 a pop.
HTH
Tom
AMA 8026 CD, INTRO, OPEN
The paperwork tells the AMA that there are real living modelers out here having fun.
And yep it gets your club's name and location out there on the competition calender.
Bad side, as you said club looses AT LEAST $20.00 a pop.
HTH
Tom
AMA 8026 CD, INTRO, OPEN
05-19-2004, 09:34 AM
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RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
Many clubs have fund raising events in conjunction with sanctioned events. In some cases, suppliers will only donate items if an event is sanctioned. It proves to them that the event is real. That is the only advantage that I can see to sanctioning a closed club event held at a chartered club field.
05-19-2004, 09:49 AM
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RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
ORIGINAL: BillyGoat
Here’s the question, I want to hear from you all what benefit does our club get for having events sanctioned?
Here’s the question, I want to hear from you all what benefit does our club get for having events sanctioned?
I used to be the contest co-ordinator for a 400+ member club, so ran a lot of events (up to 10 poer year). I only ever sanctioned one or two of them. That was a few years ago, so some of the rules & benefits may have changed, but here's what some of the "benefits" of sanctioning used to be:
1) Insurance. You already have it anyway, so no gain.
2) Guarantee that the AMA would not sanction another similar event within a given distance of your event. Since most events are not sanctioned anyway, and you are only protected form other AMA sanctioned events, not much of a gain IMO. Instead of pinning false hopes on the AMA for such "protection", all of the RC clubs in my area would get together once per year and plamn the year's contest calendar such that the clubs did not step on each other's toes.
3) A tiny ad in the AMA rag, if you sanction about 3 months ahead of the event.
4) Credits for the CD, towards his membership fees for the nexty year. (I know of people from other clubs who sanctioned events only to get this credit)
5) Some groups - e.g. pattern, needed the event to be sanctioned if they wanted the results from the event to count towards regional standings.
That's about it, as far as I recall.
Gordon
05-19-2004, 10:19 AM
#5
RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
Other than the mechandise donation factor mentioned by JR and if the event is held at your field then there is no point of sanctioning a closed event. However if the event is to be held else where such a flying/static event at a fullscale airport or static mall show Then the property owners (mall, Airport etc) are not covered unless there is an event sanction in place for the event and the additional rider is carried naming the property owner. Without that Sanction/rider a public display static or flying is almost impossible to sell to the property owners.
The fees for the the additional named property owners for a one or two day event was not out of line at all. As I remember around an additional 20/25 dollars but may be more now as I quit all my CD activities when the AMA insulted their CD workers by taking away the CD member credit or the 50% games whatever it is now. Myself and most CD's I know took on these costs themselves and not the clubs by removing the credit just took away all motivation for the CD to take on that kind of responsibility.
John
The fees for the the additional named property owners for a one or two day event was not out of line at all. As I remember around an additional 20/25 dollars but may be more now as I quit all my CD activities when the AMA insulted their CD workers by taking away the CD member credit or the 50% games whatever it is now. Myself and most CD's I know took on these costs themselves and not the clubs by removing the credit just took away all motivation for the CD to take on that kind of responsibility.
John
05-20-2004, 09:05 AM
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RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner
Other than the mechandise donation factor mentioned by JR and if the event is held at your field then there is no point of sanctioning a closed event. However if the event is to be held else where such a flying/static event at a fullscale airport or static mall show Then the property owners (mall, Airport etc) are not covered unless there is an event sanction in place for the event and the additional rider is carried naming the property owner. Without that Sanction/rider a public display static or flying is almost impossible to sell to the property owners.
The fees for the the additional named property owners for a one or two day event was not out of line at all. As I remember around an additional 20/25 dollars but may be more now as I quit all my CD activities when the AMA insulted their CD workers by taking away the CD member credit or the 50% games whatever it is now. Myself and most CD's I know took on these costs themselves and not the clubs by removing the credit just took away all motivation for the CD to take on that kind of responsibility.
John
Other than the mechandise donation factor mentioned by JR and if the event is held at your field then there is no point of sanctioning a closed event. However if the event is to be held else where such a flying/static event at a fullscale airport or static mall show Then the property owners (mall, Airport etc) are not covered unless there is an event sanction in place for the event and the additional rider is carried naming the property owner. Without that Sanction/rider a public display static or flying is almost impossible to sell to the property owners.
The fees for the the additional named property owners for a one or two day event was not out of line at all. As I remember around an additional 20/25 dollars but may be more now as I quit all my CD activities when the AMA insulted their CD workers by taking away the CD member credit or the 50% games whatever it is now. Myself and most CD's I know took on these costs themselves and not the clubs by removing the credit just took away all motivation for the CD to take on that kind of responsibility.
John
The first paragraph is not entirely true. Our club partakes as performers in 5 full scale air shows a year. We currently do not have a CD (well we do but he is really out of town - Japan) to sanction any of these events and we still are able to get the AMA coverage. When I asked our treasurer, I believe he said it was a $20 fee with the paperwork and AMA was happy to take it. The CD that I mensioned (Japan) only got his CD-ship so he could sanction the (now possibly defunct) California Marathon, which our club hosted. He told me that he really didn't need to do it but thought it would look better if he did. Incidentally, I don't ever remember seeing any records being kept or articles in the MA magazine for this event, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong......
Your second paragraph..... WOW.... Now I may reconcider about becoming a CD.......
05-20-2004, 02:58 PM
#8
RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
archerry
No insult taken. When a sanction is run it is for a particular listed site and when the site is at an AMA chartered clubs site no additional rider is needed for the property owner as he is already covered through the clubs charter. The problem arises when the event occurs elsewhere, in that case the property owner is Not covered it makes no differance whether its a static or flying class 'D' display. Now heaven forbid if anything happens and the property owner is bare (the airport for example) while the pilot may be covered both will be sued and the AMA will pay your liability off then the property owner will turn around and subragate his losses in a suit aginst you. Guess who will be at the losing end of the list.
I have done many full scale airshows both as a full scale performer and as a CD for model flying displays and know of no full scale airport/airshow managers that would let you perform without that rider with the airport named. In one case years ago I performed in a full scale at a smaller airshow at Van Nuys Ca. and at the time did not have the proper insurance and at the last minute the Airshow bought an insurance policy for me to go on.
Unless there was misinformation on the sanction application The AMA would not issue an event sanction for an off site event without the additional rider fees being paid. it would be very fool hardy to do otherwise. The AMA is very emphatic about model flying at full scale airshows and the info supplied to CD is clear. Not without a sanction and the additional site rider for those dates.
Its unfortunate that the marathon is dead I would love to have participated and have done some XC as an individual up to 80 miles along old route 66.
John[8D]
No insult taken. When a sanction is run it is for a particular listed site and when the site is at an AMA chartered clubs site no additional rider is needed for the property owner as he is already covered through the clubs charter. The problem arises when the event occurs elsewhere, in that case the property owner is Not covered it makes no differance whether its a static or flying class 'D' display. Now heaven forbid if anything happens and the property owner is bare (the airport for example) while the pilot may be covered both will be sued and the AMA will pay your liability off then the property owner will turn around and subragate his losses in a suit aginst you. Guess who will be at the losing end of the list.
I have done many full scale airshows both as a full scale performer and as a CD for model flying displays and know of no full scale airport/airshow managers that would let you perform without that rider with the airport named. In one case years ago I performed in a full scale at a smaller airshow at Van Nuys Ca. and at the time did not have the proper insurance and at the last minute the Airshow bought an insurance policy for me to go on.
Unless there was misinformation on the sanction application The AMA would not issue an event sanction for an off site event without the additional rider fees being paid. it would be very fool hardy to do otherwise. The AMA is very emphatic about model flying at full scale airshows and the info supplied to CD is clear. Not without a sanction and the additional site rider for those dates.
Its unfortunate that the marathon is dead I would love to have participated and have done some XC as an individual up to 80 miles along old route 66.
John[8D]
05-20-2004, 05:16 PM
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RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner
archerry
No insult taken. When a sanction is run it is for a particular listed site and when the site is at an AMA chartered clubs site no additional rider is needed for the property owner as he is already covered through the clubs charter. The problem arises when the event occurs elsewhere, in that case the property owner is Not covered it makes no differance whether its a static or flying class 'D' display. Now heaven forbid if anything happens and the property owner is bare (the airport for example) while the pilot may be covered both will be sued and the AMA will pay your liability off then the property owner will turn around and subragate his losses in a suit aginst you. Guess who will be at the losing end of the list.
I have done many full scale airshows both as a full scale performer and as a CD for model flying displays and know of no full scale airport/airshow managers that would let you perform without that rider with the airport named. In one case years ago I performed in a full scale at a smaller airshow at Van Nuys Ca. and at the time did not have the proper insurance and at the last minute the Airshow bought an insurance policy for me to go on.
Unless there was misinformation on the sanction application The AMA would not issue an event sanction for an off site event without the additional rider fees being paid. it would be very fool hardy to do otherwise. The AMA is very emphatic about model flying at full scale airshows and the info supplied to CD is clear. Not without a sanction and the additional site rider for those dates.
Its unfortunate that the marathon is dead I would love to have participated and have done some XC as an individual up to 80 miles along old route 66.
John[8D]
archerry
No insult taken. When a sanction is run it is for a particular listed site and when the site is at an AMA chartered clubs site no additional rider is needed for the property owner as he is already covered through the clubs charter. The problem arises when the event occurs elsewhere, in that case the property owner is Not covered it makes no differance whether its a static or flying class 'D' display. Now heaven forbid if anything happens and the property owner is bare (the airport for example) while the pilot may be covered both will be sued and the AMA will pay your liability off then the property owner will turn around and subragate his losses in a suit aginst you. Guess who will be at the losing end of the list.
I have done many full scale airshows both as a full scale performer and as a CD for model flying displays and know of no full scale airport/airshow managers that would let you perform without that rider with the airport named. In one case years ago I performed in a full scale at a smaller airshow at Van Nuys Ca. and at the time did not have the proper insurance and at the last minute the Airshow bought an insurance policy for me to go on.
Unless there was misinformation on the sanction application The AMA would not issue an event sanction for an off site event without the additional rider fees being paid. it would be very fool hardy to do otherwise. The AMA is very emphatic about model flying at full scale airshows and the info supplied to CD is clear. Not without a sanction and the additional site rider for those dates.
Its unfortunate that the marathon is dead I would love to have participated and have done some XC as an individual up to 80 miles along old route 66.
John[8D]
I totally agree about the extra off site insurance policy and I believe we are saying the same thing. The only point I was trying to make was that even though we don't have a CD sanctioning these events, we are still able to to get the AMA coverage.
I too was disappointed the CA Marathon would not be run this year. Most of the people who ran it became indisposed this year and the CD (being Army Corps of Engineers) was sent to Japan after being in Iraq.
However, you might be interested to know that I'm developing something very interesting in its place. I will run it posibly in the fall of next year, that's if I can also can get another club interested in a joint venture running it......
I'm calling it the 50-50 Charity Poker Marathon. Basic basic rules are: you complete laps to build a poker hand. At the end the highest poker hand wins 50% of the cash jackpot. The other 50% will go to a legal charity in the name of the winning pilot for income tax purposes.
Part of the rules will be taken from the CA Marathon. If you are interested in more of the details I have started, I will be glad to privately email you a copy.
And not to be disrespectful, insurance yes, as far as sanctioning this event, well....????
05-20-2004, 06:28 PM
#11
RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
Definately would be interested in the poker run if you get anything going. Use to go on a yearly one up with the LVRC in Las Vegas and it was great fun. Theirs was more of an unknown hare and hound with a mandatory landing and T/o to pick up a card and the real challenge was surviving all the unknown landing and t/o spots.
John
John
05-20-2004, 11:58 PM
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RE: AMA Sanctioning for events
Well that's what I'm shooting for and I hope to get it going.... Im looking at running it at the Lucerne Dry Lake bed near Barstow / Victorville CA.
My plan is a $10 entry pilot fee and $50 poker ante, give the pilot 2 hrs to do it, 32oz of fuel max and one lap is approx. 10 miles. Each lap the pilot sucessfully completes they get one card for their 5 card poker hand. They may complete three additional laps for a one-time three card draw. Each pilot may enter up to three times over the event weekend for three chances to win the grand jackpot.
I like the sounds of the event that you decribed... Is it still running? Would you happen to know who the event co-ordinators be so I may contact them for ideas or would you feel that you know enough to share them?....
My plan is a $10 entry pilot fee and $50 poker ante, give the pilot 2 hrs to do it, 32oz of fuel max and one lap is approx. 10 miles. Each lap the pilot sucessfully completes they get one card for their 5 card poker hand. They may complete three additional laps for a one-time three card draw. Each pilot may enter up to three times over the event weekend for three chances to win the grand jackpot.
I like the sounds of the event that you decribed... Is it still running? Would you happen to know who the event co-ordinators be so I may contact them for ideas or would you feel that you know enough to share them?....
