ghost_rider

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AMA home coming for 2005 is this weekend (June 4-6).
Anyone attending?

BTW, this is normally a good event to attend provided that Mr. Congeniality himself (AMA Competitions/Technical Director) would not meddle with attendees. If you have your ears on Mr. AMA Competitions/Technical Director, please stay at home.

Regards

Ben
AMA 9119

Wren Turbines USA

My Feedback: (39)

Geeze Ben,

You aren't even there yet and already lookin' for a fight? I'm packed and ready to go. You comin' down??

Ron Ballard
NO1
(no one)

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

LOL.
I am still livid about what happened last year.
I will call you later this P.M.

ghost_rider

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Just came back from HQ and the event was great. Unfortunately the turn out was low this year. The weather was great and wind mostly down the runway. I was able to put in about 10 flights with my P-120 powered Rookie.

Regards

Ben

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Well????

Was he there?

ghost_rider

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Yes, he was there and he behaved himself this year. I would like to be the first to thank him for being "human" for the first time.

Regards

Ben

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Ben,
Weren't you nervous flying a turbine at Muncie, with all the HQ types looking over your shoulder just waiting for you to violate even the smallest part of the regs?
I'm nervous enough when I'm flying without having the "FEDS" looking over my shoulder every minute.
Jon

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Actually, I enjoy flying at the HQ. I’ve attended the event every year starting from the first year of the event.

stalspin-delete

Unfortuneate mishap of Dennis Kirby"s brand new aircraft though.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

now stalspin,
that is one of those statements that needs to be better thought out before posted.

was it really a brand new aircraft that he was attempting to fly at homecomming, or was it one that had been previously flown somewhere else?

the way yer statement is worded helps to perpetuate a myth, unless the ama allowed some of their own rules to be broken at their flyin.

Wren Turbines USA

My Feedback: (39)

Yep,

Good ol' homecoming. I got yelled at twice by the flight line BOSS. Once for taxiing my Bobcat back to my pit for cool down, and then again for starting up away from the "pits".
I arrived at AMA at 8 am and immediatly asked if there were a spot designated for turbines. They pointed to a place down the way and said "your canopy cannot come past the white line." I prepped my jet and carried my support equipment out to the edge of the runway and fired it up for a flight. Seems that wasn't good enough as they insisted I lug everything out to the designated pilot areas for startup and shutdown. I will praise the line boss in that all other pilots landed when we spooled up the Mercury, but it just seems to me that they really had their eyes on the turbines. Later I did a full throttle pass down wind. I don't think I went over 200 because nobody questioned me.
However, 10 minutes after I was scolded for not following the "rules", a .40 size prop plane taxied into the pits out of control. Luckily a bystander caught it by the wing and stopped it. But I never did see the pilot get talked to by the "BOSS".
My 2 cents,

Ron Ballard
AMA AVP Dist.6

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Ron

I actually brought it to the attention of the BOSS that it was a clear violation of AMA turbine rules to start a turbine at the flight line (less than 4ft apart on each side from other pilots flying their airplanes) and he responded with “I KNOW� and told me continue with the rule violation.

A little turbine rules and regulations class before next years event would be appropriate for some of the people working the event.

Regards

Ben
AMA 9119

stalspin-delete

Mongo.
check out the other posts for violations as well.
yup first flight, new plane, did not have the required ringing out flights.
to my knowledge only mishap as well. certainly was a shame. Autopsy will be performed to determine why entire tail section departed aircraft. I understand this is not the only incident of that particular model.
It appeared to be very stable and easy flying until the buzz and resulting crash. Nothing out of the ordinary was witnessed prior to the incident.
(if you don't tell anyone it is a first flight, who will ask?)

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i always thought that the flight safety declaration form ya signed upon registering at a sanctioned event asked if you had flow this aircraft previously and all that stuff.

now, admittedly, i haven't been to a plank event, much less run one, in in several years, helis only, and really dont pay a lotta attn to what all is there to be signed, but, that one should be enforced.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Funny you should notice that minor little meaningless detail Mongo. It sure appears the no one in Muncie cares if the rules are followed or not. Or is it they don't even KNOW what they are doing and expect US to tell them?

When I commented about the mind set of some of the turbine guys to ignore the rules the rest are held to (clear, open, intentional violation of AMA Safety Code Rule #1) I was flamed, shamed, and made to be less than a man for my indiscretion (hanna and ghost rider were part of that bunch of wild hip shooters). Wonder when the AMA is going to figure out that rules THEY don't enforce in Muncie don't mean anything to the average modeler.

Unless some sort of action is taken against the guy, I (and others) think the AMA is flushing the rules down the drain. ----------------------------------------------

I have had a rotten hair week and this is bad attitude #758.

Sorry Ben, missed a critical chunk of information (stupid as some say?). Let me rephrase that last one!

Otherwise, the answer appears to be to allow folks to do anything they want for some less than clear reason and make rules so dues can be increased to pay more salaries for more rules makers.

J_R

Jim

It warn't a turbine.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i noticed that detail, cause i havbe had to enforce that rule a time or two at events i was running.

never on a jet guy, by the way. several of the larger scale WW2 heavy iron types though, more FF types than ya can count, and a q 500 racer or 3 just fer good measure.

nowdays i wonder why i bothered.

Wren Turbines USA

My Feedback: (39)

The point I am trying to make is this: Along with the "title" comes the responsibility to understand the rules and regs of that particular event. In AMA's case- the homecoming, it was my observation that no one in particular had a grip on this event, although there were a few "chiefs". Believe me, I have ran my share of events, and I do not want the responsibility of the homecoming. However, when a person chooses to accept this position, he should shoulder the responsibility of having the knowledge to ensure tht all participants are on the same page. Was there a pilots meeting on Saturday morning?

Ron Ballard
AMA AVP Dist 6

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

JB my friend..."here you go again" (lol).

FYI, the aircraft that crashed was not a turbine powered airplane. I could not comment on the crash as I do not have detailed information of what caused it.

Regards

Ben

J_R

It's getting a postmortum, just as stalspin said.

I understand there were other incidents. If the guy had not fessed up to the fact it was new, it would have gone unnoticed.

Wren Turbines USA

My Feedback: (39)

I did witness one midair, involving a large gas burner and an electric. The electric clipped the larger plane, or visa versa, and if the pilot of the larger plane would have shut down the engine, it would not have shook itself apart in the 4-6 seconds after impact. Apparently the impact got one of the prop blades, and after initial impact, you could hear a bad vibration and as I watched, it just came apart in the air.
This happened around 8:30 to 9:30 Saturday morning.

Ron Ballard

stalspin-delete

Kirby's plane was at least a 30% Extra type. with a DA100 in it. He was just flying it to get a feel of the controls, nothing fancy. Came out of a turn lined up outside of the runway, applied full power, heard a loud buzz and the verticle and horizontal departed with subsequent crash, totaled. Thats all there is to it. one thought was possible builder error. END.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Re:#18

Ron,
My 'point' is that this rule (AMA Safety Code NUMBER ONE!) seems to be one that is NOT followed on a very wide scale. One would THINK the AMA homecoming would get it right.

Mid air's happen and pilots do stupid things, like not shutting down the engine when it is clear that would probably result in a salvageable airframe or equipment.

It seems that the only thing 'they' are good for is yelling at people, but NOT making sure the safety rules are FOLLOWED! ARRGGHHH. I have seen this type of thing at more than one event and am astounded that the "BOSS" (air boss or CD) only seems to see what he wants to.

If the AMA will NOT enforce the rules at Muncie, where pray tell do the rules mean anything? Why should turbine folks (as an example) worry about following A*N*Y AMA rules when it can be proven that the AMA allows for arbitrary and capricious enforcement EVEN on their own land? The courts have never been gentle on those who enforce rules in that manner.

J_R

Jim

I am curious. How was the AIR BOSS supposed to know the plane had never flown before. What are the tale-tale signs of an unflown aircraft? For instance, can the clevises be inspected for prior ware, or is it new tires that are the giveaway? How is it that he sees only what he wants to see?

Maybe we should have a declaration form along these lines: "I hereby certify that I have followed every rule in the safety code and that my plane is absolutely perfect condition, as of 4 AM this date". Maybe we can have the clubs be responsible for every member signing one on each new day of flying. Of course, to be safe, they need to be filed and kept forever.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

such form already exist, jr, and it is included in every sanction package.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...-files/314.pdf

edited to add:

now, whadaya do about someone who would lie about it?
well in the case mentioned in this thread, i would vote for the offender's name and ama number being published as a known liar. that way all CD's could watch out for him. the guy did admit, after the fact, that it was untested.

as a CD i found it very easy to ask folks, point blank, "have you ever flown this plane before? when and where?"
prety easy to tell from the answer if they telling the truth. most folks have a hard time lieing to a dirrect question.