rminsk

This was not an AMA flying site but I just wanted people to be aware.

This was posted by dezflyer over at rcgroups.com:
...well, i just got back from the city counsel meeting. effective oct. 7th, flying any rc aircraft will be prohibited in the city of redondo. they banned it completely. so the beaurocratic dominoe theory begins. first is us, next is you. its a sad day and age when a few power hungry crying idiots can take down an awesome flying spot. 3 to 2 vote, came this close to having weekday only 2 - 7 pm flying. california coastal committee here we come. what a shame.

rockmon

None of the planes matched their shoes, no wonder they put a halt to those noisey dirty little things. Sorry to hear about the loss and I hope it doesn't start a trend.

J_R

Here is an article in a local paper,done before the action was taken. http://tbrnews.nminews.com/articles/...ews/news12.txt

and an opinion published here http://windsofchange.net/archives/004505.php

Now, IIRC, this site is not an AMA chartered club. The pilots here might consider forming one and contacting the AMA Flying Site Assistance folks, Wes De Cou in particular, and see if anything can be done at this late date. It is really unfortunate that the pilots were unable to police themselves as they agreed to do. Still, all may not be lost if they are willing to live with some safety rules. Why do people wait until so late to contact the AMA?

Just my 2 cents.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Gotta love this quote about radio CONTROLLED aircraft; "There is no way for people to control their aircrafts," said Planning Commissioner Lenore Bloss.

I liked some of the points brought up in the editorial piece, looks like frizbees and volleyballs will be banned also. [X(]

J_R

P-51B

I think Bloss is the one that was hit in the back of the head with a slope plane and, instead of receiveing an apology, was treated rudely. A similar incident took place involving a toddler and an RC car, here in my community, that resulted in a ban of all RC devices in parks. It is too bad there are always those who do not realize what the results of their actions may be.

The City of Redondo Beach has always shown a desire to promote wholesome activities. The same paper, in another story, tells of the opening of a skateboard park.

The term "outlaw" could be used to describe many of those flying at the site. While I am not against anyone flying models, it would behoove this bunch to show a little respect for people. The characterization of pilots hitting people and cars is certainly not helpful.

I suspect the site can be saved if the pilots are willing to do what is necessary to make the area safe. Handing the City a liability policy for $2.5 million couldn't hurt either.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Yeah, based on the article I believe you are correct. I just thought her quote was funny, if not typical of many politicians.

And I agree, that it certainly sounds as though the group flying there did not help anyone's cause. From the sound of the article, I don't think I would have been flying there in the first place if there is that much other activity going on.

scottrc

I remeber visiting my cousin there back in the 70's and watching the gliders there. Man, talk about an end to an era. Typical politics. AMA may have been able to support a case, then again, if the politician has a big enough burr up the butt, then they wouldn't have had a chance to win.

headshot

Scott,

A quick Yah, but.

If the effected people had had the backing of the AMA at the time, I am sure that the City Council would have had more respect for a group of people backed by a National Organization, rather than a perceived "group of rogue" glider pilots who they felt couldn't follow any rules.

Jay L.

SoCal GliderGuider

Statistics. You are more likely to be bit by a dog or hit by a bicyclist than hit by an rc glider in a public area.

I bet Bloss put herself into a dangerous situation so she could incure an injury. Why do I think this? Because the pilot of the plane was reported to be "rude". Who reported him to be rude? Bloss. In other words it was a set up to further Bloss's political power.

If you launch an RC glider from private property you can fly it over damn near any city and they have absolutly no power to stop you.

As to "getting the AMA involved"; good luck. This tends to screw things up even more even with the site insurance. But then why should you have to have millions of dollars of insurance to fly a two pound sailplane while the two hundred pound lard ass on the 30 pound beach cruiser bicycle doesn't?

Statistics.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

I suspect that you are nearly correct but have missed some unreported details. Usually I have found those kinds of people transparent to my activities unless they interfere with their desired actions. Once that line has been crossed, the power plays come out and the 'game' changes dramatically. That 'line' was more than likely crossed in some unmentioned earlier incident.

Now you have to wait until she has been retired and try to go back and build a reason to remove this current ordinance.

Good luck.


P.S. A great many years ago I associated Redondo Beach with beautiful girls. This makes it sound like looks were all they had going for them, then and now! <G>

J_R

SoCal GliderGuider

Your contention that the city can do nothing about flying in city airspace is incorrect. Doing so amounts to trespass. You may want to review this AMA document. It is available to you even if you are not an AMA member. http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...-files/526.pdf

In answer to why an insurance policy might be useful, the answer appears to be rather simple. Because you, and/or others, want to fly there. The guy on the bike does not have the problem... you and/or others do.

From the reports cited, it is apparently the case that after Bloss was hit, the city went to the glider flyers and set up a program with the pilots to police themselves. The pilots did not do so. You can place the blame wherever you like, but it comes back to the fact that some of the pilots have shown no respect for the authority of the city.

This site may be able to be saved, but, not with the attitude you have shown in your post. Time IS of the essence. The longer this site is closed, the less likely it is that it can be restored... AMA or no AMA.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Just like George Patton, thre guy should have kissed Planning Commissioner Lenore Bloss

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

That to bad about that. Hopefully neighboring cities dont follow suit with the ban. It will be a cold day in hell when a politician can pry the tranny from my hands though.

i fly at an unsanctioned site with a few buddies of mine in my town. Its a local feild that belongs to the high school, therefor city property. We police our selves to stay within the confines of the feild and not over fly the few neighboring houses. Its a place for us to go when we want to catch a quick sundown flight without driving 20 mintues to our club. We respect the property and cleanup after ourselves. If there are people there walking the track we dont fly. We often get observers, and we are nice to them and not rude. The cops came one time and wanted to LIDAR (Laser speed detector) my extra 300. We asked if anyone complained and he said no, these are quiet enough and we dont bother anyone. All in all, the cop was very interested and wanted to learn more and may fly with us!!

What I am getting at is public image and relations is everything. If the person flying the model was truly rude when he hti the other person then well, he just personally signed the law saying no flying. If you are respectful to people, their property and feelings, then they will be respectful to you. I am a true beleiver in "What comes around goes around".

sean

J_R

ifixairplanes

IIRC, you are one of the younger posters on RCU. You just made a great case for those of us that support trying to get young people involved. Great post, and... kudos to your folks.

JR

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

Just wondering J_R, what does IIRC stand for? and thanks for the compliment.

sean

J_R

IIRC - If I Recall Correctly

jworosylo

No offense man, but people were being hit in the head with gliders. That would surely piss me off and thats no way to fly. However, i dont see why it was completely banned. If anything, it should have been forced to adhere to specific times/days for flight so that people were aware of the airplanes. I feel bad for you man, but it seems that it was inevitible when people are being physically harmed by rogue gliders. Unless I read that news article wrong......

dicknadine

this is the start of public rebellion against the model airplanes. too many of the fellows are flying in too many parks and open fields and a good percent of them are not AMA members. I just bought this ARF and it flies super, AMA field, whats that?? you mean I have to have a License to fly wherever i want ?? on and on. its happenning all over. dick

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

The way i see it, if those people where respectful to the people in the area, then they mey not have lost that priveledge. It only takes a few bad apples to make people think that way. First impressions last forever, and if the first time you see an RC plane is after it doinked you in the head, then how are you going to feel about them? Like I said, its all public image and relations. I know it wont be banned in my area because we are respectful and cautious. I dont beleive what happened here is a trend that is going to follow. I have never been to the area in question, but it sounds like a popular area where there are alot of people present at any given time. Maybe they shouldn't have even been flying there in the first place. Does anybody have a photo of the area? I would like to see what the area looks like.

sean

SoCal GliderGuider

JR I make no appologies for my implied "attitude". Through other posts and following a few leads it is to be noted that Bloss walked off after the incident BEFORE the flyer could get to her. So it's now quite obvious this was a setup as there was no possibility that the flyer could have been rude to Bloss. So where did the "rude" part come from? Bloss! Then if you come up to a bunch of flyers minding their own business and NOT inpeading others from using the path or the beach and give them a bad time you had better expect the same back.

As to flying in public: As soon as there is an insurance requirement for frisbees or volleyballs or basket balls, all quite flying objects, I'll worry about insurance and tresspass.

The rest of you can just sit in the corner and be cry babies.

jworosylo

If only frisbees, volleyballs, and/or basketballs could travel at over 30 mph at any given time. Volleyballs and Basketballs are filled with air, meaning that when struck they compress, to spread out the impact area. Aircraft are made of balsa wood, or fiberglass, sometimes plastic ...... which tends to be a bit less forgiving. Especially when the full force of momentum of the aircraft is situated at the very nose, which is an area less than that of a quarter. Simply put, there is no correlation between frisbees, volleyballs, and basketballs with a aircraft because they have totally different flyin characteristics, impact characteristics, and so fourth.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

True, but your observations are factual and logical!

The problem is that too many folks in the hobby (note that I did NOT say AMA) have the exact same attitude you see in post #20 and THAT rubs the public defender (politircian) raw. Couple that attitude with a few less safe people and the hobby has a disaster waiting to happen.

JR was right, the AMA needs to be involved but it might be too late. The problem with that is the 'system' needs to get beat up so that there are some teeth to the local rules. In many places where folks fly, sans club and sans AMA, the reason is that some twerp threatened the local government with a lawsuit if they REQUIRED membership in the AMA. The other common problem I have seen in areas where the city folks stood their ground was that no organization was given responsibility for the activity, rather like here the pilots were supposed to be self policing. That NEVER works without an organization for shear numerical reasons. There is me and you guys have to catch me is the attitude you see.

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

dicknadine i agree there are a lot of people that just fly wherever they want and are not or do not intend to become AMA members. we can all walk into a LHS and buy an ARF. is it time we needed AMA membership to buy/fly RC planes if it would protect responsible pilot then i would go with it. I understand that some people have the luxury to fly in areas that are not built up where nobody can get hurt. but still i would be happy to show my AMA card to buy new planes if it protects our flying privilages

jworosylo

thats taking the law a bit too far unfortunately. If that were the case, than I would have never gotten into the hobby. i learned by myself, on my own field, where there was a zero possibility of an accident. Then you are really limiting the number and types of people who enter the hobby. For right now, i think that the majority of fliers are safe and responsible. Yes there are a few that shouldnt be flying, but if what you proposed ever goes into effect, then you've let the idiots win. The sensible people with no AMA card will be out of luck and only those with a field near their house will be able to fly, and thats just unacceptable. Giving into stupidity is never the way to go. These people just need to be given an alternative, thats all.

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

Paul, needing to show an AMA card for buying a plane would be going overboard. That would be putting to much control on our hobby and would probably give the AMA more power in ways of restrictions and rules for us. I can see it now, "That guys tail touching, confiscate his planes and card! he's all done!"

sean