Dave Brown vs Lithium
09-28-2004, 07:41 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Newberry, FL
Posts: 5,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave Brown vs Lithium
Gentlemen,
AMA voting for the presidency is in process. The information presented here is vital to that process.
Please read the unmodified Soapbox item as submitted. Then review the modifications Brown insists be made.
1. Dave Brown has been AMA Pres for three terms and should have stepped down this term as he had agreed. Yet, he chose to run again.
2. In May, 2004, Brown presented a Presidents Perspective column that was on the subject of Lithium Polymer Batteries that he knows almost nothing about, but chose to make it confrontational and misleading.
3. I took the matter up with him directly in dialogue, tried to educate and correct his most glaring errors. I spent an hour with Don Lowe of the Safety Committee at Toledo and Don and that committee handled the situation accurately and professionally. Yet, Brown belittles their efforts in his mark up of my article.
4. His response was a follow on column in the August issue that added more of the same and closed with an asinine remark.
5. I wrote a Letter to the Editor of Model Aviation in response and submited it to Bob Hunt, Editor.
6. Hunt requested that I make it a Soapbox article as one of the AMA's methods of presenting other viewpoints. This was done and the article attached was promised to be published in the November issue to hit the mail in Sept. All this has obviously been delayed in an attempt to stonewall and delay to the point that voters would not see a true picture.
7. The Oct issue arrived and there was no Soap Box. Surprise!
8. On Sept 27. I received a lengthy haranguing call from Dave Brown insisting that I change my opinion to conform with his. This is not arguable. I insisted that he send me a redline copy laying out his objections. I have attached the redline copy Brown sent me that shows it clearly.
9. I called Bob Hunt on Sept 28 to get his reading and he informed me he had sent the article to Brown for review. Why should this be done with a Soapbox article that is supposed to represent another viewpoint? This was done even though Hunt admits he never had the opportunity to edit Browns two columns. Hunt then insisted that the article would not be published unless it was modified to accomodate Browns directives.
10. Thus Brown demands to deprive AMA membership of a more accurate viewpoint from one who has led the way in AMA Frequency matters and in the introduction and promotion of Li Po technology via strong eductional activity.
11. This is a travesty and an egregious misues of power to suppress the first amendment rights of any AMA member to be heard and to exercise undue influence on the editorial staff of Model Aviation.
12. Truly, it is time for a new AMA Pres. I take this opportunity to endorse Dave Matthewson for that position.
13. You have my authorization to forward this message to any member of AMA that you know. The number of electric flyers alone is enough to decide this election.
14. An attempt to reach Rob Kurek, Director of Publications today to see if he was aware of this situation brought the usual AMA response: leave a message.
Fred Marks AMA 1733
I have tested Kokam lithium Ion extensively, discussed issues with Don Lowe and as Fred states they handled the situation accurately and professionally.
Not many DB Products addressing electric flight. [:'(]
AMA voting for the presidency is in process. The information presented here is vital to that process.
Please read the unmodified Soapbox item as submitted. Then review the modifications Brown insists be made.
1. Dave Brown has been AMA Pres for three terms and should have stepped down this term as he had agreed. Yet, he chose to run again.
2. In May, 2004, Brown presented a Presidents Perspective column that was on the subject of Lithium Polymer Batteries that he knows almost nothing about, but chose to make it confrontational and misleading.
3. I took the matter up with him directly in dialogue, tried to educate and correct his most glaring errors. I spent an hour with Don Lowe of the Safety Committee at Toledo and Don and that committee handled the situation accurately and professionally. Yet, Brown belittles their efforts in his mark up of my article.
4. His response was a follow on column in the August issue that added more of the same and closed with an asinine remark.
5. I wrote a Letter to the Editor of Model Aviation in response and submited it to Bob Hunt, Editor.
6. Hunt requested that I make it a Soapbox article as one of the AMA's methods of presenting other viewpoints. This was done and the article attached was promised to be published in the November issue to hit the mail in Sept. All this has obviously been delayed in an attempt to stonewall and delay to the point that voters would not see a true picture.
7. The Oct issue arrived and there was no Soap Box. Surprise!
8. On Sept 27. I received a lengthy haranguing call from Dave Brown insisting that I change my opinion to conform with his. This is not arguable. I insisted that he send me a redline copy laying out his objections. I have attached the redline copy Brown sent me that shows it clearly.
9. I called Bob Hunt on Sept 28 to get his reading and he informed me he had sent the article to Brown for review. Why should this be done with a Soapbox article that is supposed to represent another viewpoint? This was done even though Hunt admits he never had the opportunity to edit Browns two columns. Hunt then insisted that the article would not be published unless it was modified to accomodate Browns directives.
10. Thus Brown demands to deprive AMA membership of a more accurate viewpoint from one who has led the way in AMA Frequency matters and in the introduction and promotion of Li Po technology via strong eductional activity.
11. This is a travesty and an egregious misues of power to suppress the first amendment rights of any AMA member to be heard and to exercise undue influence on the editorial staff of Model Aviation.
12. Truly, it is time for a new AMA Pres. I take this opportunity to endorse Dave Matthewson for that position.
13. You have my authorization to forward this message to any member of AMA that you know. The number of electric flyers alone is enough to decide this election.
14. An attempt to reach Rob Kurek, Director of Publications today to see if he was aware of this situation brought the usual AMA response: leave a message.
Fred Marks AMA 1733
I have tested Kokam lithium Ion extensively, discussed issues with Don Lowe and as Fred states they handled the situation accurately and professionally.
Not many DB Products addressing electric flight. [:'(]
09-28-2004, 09:31 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Phenix City,
AL
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
09-28-2004, 09:45 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
Can't see that Red had much to say, other than he tested the batteries. The letter is from Fred Marks. If you do not know who Fred Marks is, he is the FM in FMA Direct, an AMA Hall of Famer and one of the real electrical experts in model aviation.
Either you guys want facts, or you don't. I seems some would rather shoot the messanger then hear the message.
Either you guys want facts, or you don't. I seems some would rather shoot the messanger then hear the message.
09-28-2004, 09:53 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
The thing starts with "Gentlemen" and ends with FM's sig. Everything between is FM's. No edits. The last to paragraphs are Red's.
Hey Red, draw em a picutre next time. Stuff like this stands well on its own with no comments at all.
Hey Red, draw em a picutre next time. Stuff like this stands well on its own with no comments at all.
09-28-2004, 10:16 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
mongo
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Make...2210962/tm.htm
This should settle it. Marks made his own post... with the soapbox article
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Make...2210962/tm.htm
This should settle it. Marks made his own post... with the soapbox article
09-29-2004, 04:48 AM
#10
Banned
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Newberry, FL
Posts: 5,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
Red S.
09-29-2004, 05:03 AM
#11
Banned
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Newberry, FL
Posts: 5,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
Red S.
09-29-2004, 11:02 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: -,
MT
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
You must have read every other line.
You must have read every other line.
As in the Author.
ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
Red do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone. Relax, this is a hobby. We'll make up our own minds as to who we want to vote for.
09-29-2004, 09:16 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Phenix City,
AL
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?
09-29-2004, 10:12 PM
#14
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Moultrie,
GA
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jim McNeil
How the heck did Jim get brought into this. I thought it was about Dave Brown's position on lithium batteries. Red, one day you and your "legacy" will be gone. LIVE WITH THAT
09-29-2004, 10:24 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?
Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?
He has all the finesse of a bull in a china shop, but, he gets his point across. When he offers an opinion, as opposed to facts, you rarely have to wonder what he said.
If you would read, which, if your earlier interpretation of what Red posted is an example of your ability to do, shows as something you don't like to do, you can go through the posts in this forum and find any one of several times Red has said exactly why he will not run for office.
09-29-2004, 10:33 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jim McNeil
ORIGINAL: nick.wright
How the heck did Jim get brought into this. I thought it was about Dave Brown's position on lithium batteries. Red, one day you and your "legacy" will be gone. LIVE WITH THAT
How the heck did Jim get brought into this. I thought it was about Dave Brown's position on lithium batteries. Red, one day you and your "legacy" will be gone. LIVE WITH THAT
You seem on the inside with Judi Dunlop, having claimed to talk to her last night. Can you explain something to us? She was NOT considered as an incumbent when she was placed on the ballot as a candidate by the nominating committee. A few minutes later she was named INTRIEM VP of DV, as evidenced in the EC minutes. How does that make her an incumbent? When she was named as a candidate she was an AVP, that was it. Who, exactly, authorized her to use the word "incumbent" in her campaign statement?
09-30-2004, 05:23 AM
#17
Banned
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Newberry, FL
Posts: 5,925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
ORIGINAL: BobbyRichardson
Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?
Red calls everything a spade. I would like to see how many votes he would get if he run for DVP. By the way if he knows so much why don't he run?
2. My temperment would not allow me to work effectively with a number of the present EC board members.
It is time we got some very capable younger people on the program.
09-30-2004, 06:35 AM
#18
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Moultrie,
GA
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Jim McNeil
This forum is about AMA issues. Red had a valid point when he started the thread about Dave Brown's policy and opinions on lithium batteries. MY question was how did he manage to bring Jim McNeil into it?? Was it because someone from Birmingham made a statement in this thread?? Is he (Red) expressing some feelings that he might share with his pick of candidate for District 5? In regards to Judi, I believe there is another thread related to her. Why not ask your question there?
09-30-2004, 08:17 AM
#19
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
If so, maby Red should stay on topic in this thread and start another elsewhere.
09-30-2004, 09:31 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
nick
You responded to Red about McNeil in this thread... and not just once.
If you think the fact you are a moderator makes any difference in this forum, you are mistaken. We have our own set of moderators who do a very nice job... thank you.
The theads take us where they go. No one can force you to answer a question, or questions. You can just ignore any you chose to ignore. So far, you offer opinions are unsupported by facts. Questions to you are not answered and, as a result, your credibility is slipping.
You responded to Red about McNeil in this thread... and not just once.
If you think the fact you are a moderator makes any difference in this forum, you are mistaken. We have our own set of moderators who do a very nice job... thank you.
The theads take us where they go. No one can force you to answer a question, or questions. You can just ignore any you chose to ignore. So far, you offer opinions are unsupported by facts. Questions to you are not answered and, as a result, your credibility is slipping.
09-30-2004, 09:39 AM
#23
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
If Jim wasn't a good VP, how the heck did he stay VP for so long?
09-30-2004, 09:47 AM
#24
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Moultrie,
GA
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
Which questions have I not answered? Am I missing something??? Thank God I don't moderate this forum. I would go crazy...............
ORIGINAL: J_R
nick
You responded to Red about McNeil in this thread... and not just once.
If you think the fact you are a moderator makes any difference in this forum, you are mistaken. We have our own set of moderators who do a very nice job... thank you.
The theads take us where they go. No one can force you to answer a question, or questions. You can just ignore any you chose to ignore. So far, you offer opinions are unsupported by facts. Questions to you are not answered and, as a result, your credibility is slipping.
nick
You responded to Red about McNeil in this thread... and not just once.
If you think the fact you are a moderator makes any difference in this forum, you are mistaken. We have our own set of moderators who do a very nice job... thank you.
The theads take us where they go. No one can force you to answer a question, or questions. You can just ignore any you chose to ignore. So far, you offer opinions are unsupported by facts. Questions to you are not answered and, as a result, your credibility is slipping.
09-30-2004, 10:01 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Corona, CA,
Posts: 4,444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Dave Brown vs Lithium
Nick
Post 16, the current thread
Post 62 this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_22...anchor/tm.htm#
Other questions were directed toward Judi, which you stated she would answer (ostensibly through you). That was two days ago. They involved her position on current AMA issues. Apparently, she is having to do research to find out her position… something she will not have time to do in an EC meeting.
Keep in mind this particular thread has been supplanted by the one subsequently made by Fred Marks. This type of thing happens often in the AMA forum. As a result, the title of a thread often has no relationship to what is being discussed in the thread.
Oh.. and don’t feel bad. We have the best moderators RCU has to offer. Not everyone is equipped to keep their personal views out of the moderation process.
Post 16, the current thread
Post 62 this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_22...anchor/tm.htm#
Other questions were directed toward Judi, which you stated she would answer (ostensibly through you). That was two days ago. They involved her position on current AMA issues. Apparently, she is having to do research to find out her position… something she will not have time to do in an EC meeting.
Keep in mind this particular thread has been supplanted by the one subsequently made by Fred Marks. This type of thing happens often in the AMA forum. As a result, the title of a thread often has no relationship to what is being discussed in the thread.
Oh.. and don’t feel bad. We have the best moderators RCU has to offer. Not everyone is equipped to keep their personal views out of the moderation process.