J_R

First, my understanding is that the rewrite of the Safety Code is at the printer’s and will be included with the renewals and ballots. There is one rule that seems to defy unanimous approval. Everyone knows what the intent is, but the wording has been a source of debate. Everyone agrees that the rule is desirable.

How would you word a rule, whose object is to keep those under the influence of alcohol from flying (even this question may not be correctly worded, but, you get the point)?

Obviously, you can not leave it to the individual who has been drinking to determine if he is under the influence. The object is not to ban drinking after all flying is done for the day, nor to ban drinking at the site by those not flying.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

One minor point to bear in mind ... it's not just those who are flying that we need to care about. The guy who is handling my fire extinguisher when I fire up my turbine, and who spots for me to advise me of the proximity of other models and/or full-scale aircraft better have his wits about him too, otherwise he stops being an asset and becomes a liability instead. That may be part of the reason for the current wording mentioning "participation" rather than just piloting. A drunk event CD is also not doing his job, regardless of whether he is flying at the time or not.

Looks like two major areas could / should be reworked in this rule: (1) A time limit (or blood-alcohol limit) needs to be introduced because otherwise every current RC pilot who has ever consumed alcohol is technically violating this rule; (2) there needs to be clarification of what counts as "participating" in the context of this rule.

As to how I would word it -- if I really cared a lot about this rule, I'd spend a lot of time figuring that out; as a first jab at it without bothering to really research what prior problems existed and how to ensure that we took care of that, here's some wording based on 2 minutes worth of thought:

I will not consume alocoholic beverages within 8 hours prior to, nor during, my involvement with model aircraft as pilot, pit crew, spotter, or event official.

I know that's probably full of holes too (given how little thought went into it), but feel free to poke holes in it as a way of figuring out what the real rule should say - coz unlike some, I'm more interested in us getting the rule right than I do in having people applaud my words

Gordon

J_R

Great points.

Crashem

My grandfather told me that the saying they used in WWII was, "24 hours from bottle to throtle"

BTW in todays society In the event of an accident if the lawyers can show someone was drinking within 20 milies of the site... Watch out

scottrc

Our club has a strict rule of no alchohol on the club premises nor at club events. We like to portray our hobby as "family" oriented. If a pilot is suspected of drinking, then we don't allow him to fly nor even let him in the pits. We have had members quit because of this, but as was mentioned, its worth to lose a member then risk the liability.

Scott

MajorTomski

If you just hav'ta have a beer at the field when the day is done, then I think you may have a problem. You've also become a problem to the folks you'll face on the way home.

J_R

A quick note in the interest of being correct. The final edit is being done and the Safety Code will go to the printer. The content is set. It's being checked for punctuation, etc. The Code will go out with Membership Cards, not with renewal notices... just as it always has. The first of the ballots and renewals may be on the way now.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I too would not want spectators drinking at the field.
If something happens and a drunk needs to move his bottom before a plane hit him, I don't want his inebriated condition to be a cause factor in the accident
.

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

I thought its 8 hours between the bottle and throttle. But doesn't your model scale work in here? Say if your model is 1/10 scale, then you only have to wait 8 hrs X 60 minutes X (scale) = 48 minutes!!

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I would keep it simple an to the point, "I will not consume alcoholic beverages prior to operating nor while operating model aircraft." This wording allows spectators and those done flying still enjoy a beer while armchair flying from the peanut gallery.



Sorry, but I don't see how being able to have an alcoholic beverage is not "family oriented". Just doesn't wash.


No, not the case. MANY people enjoy having an adult beverage. Wanting the FREEDOM to have one when they desire does not indicate a problem. In saying they also become a problem to folks on the road, makes the assumption that they have consumed to excesss. Both pretty dangerous leaps.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Only if you apply it to your intake, instead of 16 oz you only consume 1.6 oz of .8% beer. :-)

No alcholic beverages allowed on the property at our field. I didn't make the rule but can live with until I get home. Or if really pushed there is alwasys a cool NA beer.

Red S.

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

Hiccup!

MustangFan

Good one Mr. Scholefield

Scale the intake also !!!!

I'm with you on the rule(s).
Whatever ... keep it safe !

papermache

My Feedback: (35)

J R,
From the standpoint of enforceability and uniformity of fairness, the "no alcohol at all" rule that scottrc talked about is best. This puts things in their simplest and most understandable form. No alcohol allowed - period. That goes for everybody; pilots, spotters, spectators and anybody else. No muss, no fuss, no "misunderstandings".
We can argue forever about how much is too much, whether or not it's "family oriented", freedom to do or not, etc,etc,etc. That's not the point here. We're trying to make a rule that is the easiest to enforce, easiest to understand and contains the fewest liability risks. This is it.
You can enjoy your after-flight libations at any nearby tavern after the flying day is done, if you so desire.

papermache

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

really suprised that they didn't abdicate the responsibility and force it onto the individual clubs, which, for once, is where it rightly belongs.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I have to disagree (imagine that! ), I don't think ease of enforcement should be a driving force for any rule or reg.

Flyfalcons

I'm with Mongo here 10000%. I'm tired of rules being forced onto clubs that have found ways to regulate themselves. The AMA is just another typical controlling agency.

J_R

Papermache

I think it’s important to realize that the AMA has about 2500 clubs, all with different agendas. The club I belong to has a landlord that wants no alcohol on the site. As a result, the club has a rule that prohibits alcohol at the site.

On the other side of the coin, I have been to events were camping was allowed on site. Sitting around a fire and having a drink or two, and hanger flying, was a much a part of the event as the flying. And yeah, I have seen some pilots miss the first flight the next day.

The AMA has an interest in safe operation of models, but not in mandating how clubs will be run. Some clubs will have concerns about liability of allowing onsite drinking, and others will not. It is not in the province of the AMA to dictate morals.

Hossfly

JR, why did you not state how the new AMA SC rule is to be worded? It's, IIRC, very close to Gordon Mc's definition.
If AMA is not concerned with how Clubs are run, then why all the *MANDATES* concerning the so-called Safety Officer garbage?


That is in accord with the FAA rule and pilots. IMO the above wording of Gordon satisfies me very well. I do suggest alcoholic vice "alocoholic".

Then there's good ol' P-51B with "I would keep it simple an to the point, "I will not consume alcoholic beverages prior to operating nor while operating model aircraft."
P-51B, Have you ever read the current code? They use participation vice operation, yet you're close. You also use the wording that causes the flack. "....prior to..." Now, how long prior to? One beer as a teenager and you are forever prohibited from flying models???? One hour prior? Just HOW LONG???

Finally they are inserting a TIME and that is good.

To all you guys that preach no brew on the field, I say to you, "Balderdash!" Of course at YOUR field you are entitled to be as you so desire. So far at my field practical people with usable minds have prevailed over the nonsensical few.
There are days when I may not even take an airplane to the field, and more days when I may not take one out of the truck if I have them. It's the 'being there' that satisfies my social appetite. Sometimes a 'Brew' satisfies my thirst.
If I feel I want to sip a cold one, then I see no reason why I should not be allowed to do so. Sitting under the shelter isn't doing any damage to anyone else.
As long as you accept them, AMA will extend their *mandates*. To me so many here appear to just love to be told how to live. Kerry loves you![:'(]

""He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice." -- Albert Einstein

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

LOL ... my fingers rarely type what I tell 'em to. In my day job that usually doesn't matter too much, since the compiler catches my typo's for me.

Gordon

50+AirYears

In our club, we have never to my knowledge had a flier show up to fly with alcohol on his breath. And there are several non-drinkers in the club who can smell alcohol on someone's breath from 4 or 5 feet away.
A couple of commercial pilots in the club hold that the 24 hour rule they live up to is a minimum.
Our basic rule is that if you want to have a beer at the field, pack up and put away your equipment before opening the first can. Your flying day is over. We enforce this.
One of the long time clubs in our area folded due to noise complaints from new developments a few years ago. A number of the members joined our club. About half quit the first year over this. Their no drink and fly rule meant you put down your beer before picking up the transmitter and flying. They also had a lot more accidents than we did, even though they only had about 3/4 our number of members.

rcmiket

New Drinking Rule? Whats wrong with the way the old one is worded. God don't people have anything better to do than rewrite rules. I beg you GET A LIFE. Sorry my 2 cents-Mike

50+AirYears

Well, RCMike sometimes that's what rules are about: Keeping people from loosing their life or taking someone elses. We didn't have a non-alcohol rule in our club until some close calls from people who "only had one or two beers." Sometimes that's all it takes. My club has been very fortunate in its over 50 years of existence. All the injuries we have had only happened to the people who were themselves careless or unsafe. The innocent haven't suffered except possibly getting sick watching the blood pumping.

S E Repton

Guys,

Without meaning to sound controvertial, and not wanting to undermine the possible consequences of a pilot flying a model drunk, I am far more concerned with the fact that after the drunk guy has landed/crashed his plane, he has to drive home on the same roads that my Mom, Wife Kids have to travel on.

Like I said, I know what possibilities could occur by a drunk pilot, however, on the average flying field he would be more likely to crash away from people, where as on a road with traffic only feet away from him travelling towards him at a closing speed approaching 120 mph is this not more of a concern.

I wonder, how many of us would be brave enough to call the cops about a friend who is intentionally driving on the roads drunk? - I think it would be a VERY difficult decision to make but also possibly a lifesaver.

I don't mean to preach, just imagine how many people have been killed or injured by a drunk RC pilot crashing their plane and then imagine how many people have been killed by idiots who are drunk behind the wheel.

Respectfully Yours,

Sheridan

rcmiket

So more rules are going to stop it, right ? Give me a break. Look my whole point here is there is already a drinking deal in the deal we sign every year to renew so another rewritten rule will fix it. Ya when pigs fly. I'm more worried about they guy flying with crappy eyesight and a fading memory than a guy who sittin in the sade with a beer. -Mike