ORIGINAL: J_R

SNIP

I know I'm a bit controversial, but I do think it's time for a change.

SNIP

the last thing we need is change, or something/someone new

ORIGINAL: Joe Nagy

Hi Everyone;

Greetings to All from the 'Valley of the Sun'.

Thank You Frank, I VOTED!

And I voted for Dave Brown; someone I know personally and trust implicitly. Herein, during our troubled times, the last thing we need is change, or something/someone new. I'm sticking with someone I know, and like the AMA the way it is, and has been under Dave Brown during his past terms of Office.

Best regards to All, from a lifelong [50+++ years] modeler, into RC since '68, and one who loves the hobby dearly, and all the happiness it has brought me over the years, and wishes only the very best for it and the AMA; Dave Brown is my kind of Guy!

Joe Nagy.

ORIGINAL: BillHarris

J_R--

I'm a small fish in a big pond. I'm nobody famous. I've never even met DB face to face. But I agree with you assessment 101%: the ship of the AMA has lost it's rudder and we've gotten off course. You can't lead by "the my way or the highway" diplomacy.

These are interesting times. I read discussions here and there is a real movement for change, and change for the better. Speaking of leadership, I have been impressed with the guidance that you have shown in this forum. Politicks is a rough topic and you've defused a few brawls... thanks.

--Bill Harris
AMA 607983 and proud of it. Keep it up.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/member...0/00000009.JPG
Even after DB wrote this article, he didn't seem to have anything to worry about in getting re-elected, over and over and over again. I have it from very reliable sources that Dave Mathewson already has a very workable solution.

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

<snip>

Unfortunately the vast majority of RC people belong to AMA simply to fly at some club's flying facility, and have enough problems just sending in their AMA Dues Renewal prior to the first sunny days of early Spring. In most cases it seems that the ballot goes with the dues. AMA only retains the dues![>:]

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Hoss-
Why do you regard that as unforunate and how would you have it differently?

Abel

ORIGINAL: rw Guinn


I'll take a stab at it:
Any organization worth joining (paid or not) is worth supporting--with word and deed. Even if all it does is provide you with a place to play (As opposed to work), it is worth working for, and being knowlegable about its workings, whether it be Model airplane or golf club, bridge club, NRA, or even PETA-like orgs.
If you don't support it, learn about it, and take an active part in it, events can overtake you, and the "play" gets overshadowed by the politics. Keep on top of things, and the likelyhood of surprises becomes minimized.

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Hi Roger-
I pretty much agree with all you said. My question was really poorly stated. Rather than asking why the situation (lack of member participation in the organization) is unfortunate, I should have asked why that situation IS.
I have some clues........
A difference between AMA and the other organizations you mentioned is that the people that belong to the latter joined by choice. and that in itself involves a motivation to support the organization. Many AMA members would not belong if given a free choice, and so the relatively larger proportion of the total membership that doesn't care to actively participate, as compared to other organizations, isn't hard to understand. Sure, they have a choice of sorts, but it's like the choice one has in belonging to a Homeowner's Association. You don't have to be a member - you always have the option to sell your home and move out of the neighborhood.
Another difference I see is more easily explained by way of example. Compare two AMA clubs (hypothetical of course), Club A governed in democratic fashion by the members themselves, and Club B governed by an elected Board of Dictators..er.........Directors. A meeting of Club A involves a lot of lively interaction between the members, is well attended and usually takes an hour or two. Issues raised are generally resolved before the meeting closes. At a meeting of Club B, the President says a few words about what the BOD has decided about some issue, announces any new rules they have made, and asks if anybody has any new business. There rarely is any from the members in attendance. The Treasurer gives his report, there is the pro forma call for a motion of approval, and then a motion to adjourn. Meeting ET - five or ten minutes. Which club does AMA more resemble?
There are differences between groups within the population of AMA members as to active vs. passive participation. I often hear that voter turnout among the CL and FF groups is much higher than for the general population, which is mostly R/C sport fliers. I suspect a factor at work here is that a greater proportion of the CL and FF fliers are involved in competition. Competition rules are made by the participants themselves, rather than by a BOD. Any question as to why they take a more active role in supporting the organization?

Abel

Now I will add my $.02 worth to this conversation. I agree with both of you, but have a slightly different picture.

The real problem is NOT the clubs or the AMA, but those who are sure THEIR way is the only way and who will do anything (including misleading, misdirecting, and misrepresenting) to make it so in the club and by extension the AMA.

Those guys tend to move the clubs and the AMA from developing the hobby and its participants to creating another place to practice their personal power politics. That is what tends to drive productive members elsewhere because they would prefer to model and fly to playing power games with others. Most are in this hobby from stress filled environments and club politics can tend to be just another source of stress that can be ignored by moving elsewhere. I wish this were not true, but the sun still comes up in the east.

Both of Abel's clubs exist and one even runs the AMA. Guess which one.

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

Hoss-
Why do you regard that as unforunate and how would you have it differently?

Abel

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

.......
A difference between AMA and the other organizations you mentioned is that the people that belong to the latter joined by choice. and that in itself involves a motivation to support the organization. Many AMA members would not belong if given a free choice, and so the relatively larger proportion of the total membership that doesn't care to actively participate, as compared to other organizations, isn't hard to understand. Sure, they have a choice of sorts, but it's like the choice one has in belonging to a Homeowner's Association. You don't have to be a member - you always have the option to sell your home and move out of the neighborhood.
Another difference I see is more easily explained by way of example. Compare two AMA clubs (hypothetical of course), Club A governed in democratic fashion by the members themselves, and Club B governed by an elected Board of Dictators..er.........Directors. A meeting of Club A involves a lot of lively interaction between the members, is well attended and usually takes an hour or two. Issues raised are generally resolved before the meeting closes. At a meeting of Club B, the President says a few words about what the BOD has decided about some issue, announces any new rules they have made, and asks if anybody has any new business. There rarely is any from the members in attendance. The Treasurer gives his report, there is the pro forma call for a motion of approval, and then a motion to adjourn. Meeting ET - five or ten minutes. Which club does AMA more resemble?
There are differences between groups within the population of AMA members as to active vs. passive participation. I often hear that voter turnout among the CL and FF groups is much higher than for the general population, which is mostly R/C sport fliers. I suspect a factor at work here is that a greater proportion of the CL and FF fliers are involved in competition. Competition rules are made by the participants themselves, rather than by a BOD. Any question as to why they take a more active role in supporting the organization?

Abel

ORIGINAL: rw Guinn


But I have to disagree on a couple of points here:
1. You do not have to join the AMA to fly model aircraft. Period. On Federal land and National Forests and Grasslands, yea, verily, even National Parks, activities which are not expressly forbidden are permitted (except hunting in National Parks). There is a lot of US Government land out there. I can fly my model airplanes anywhere I want, with no silly restrictions. I just have to be prepared to pay the consequences if I cause problems.
IF I want to join my local, NRA chartered gun club, guess what? at least 50% of the membership must be NRA-and you won't make many friends at the club if you don't join. If I want to take part in club activities, be it golf, flying, shooting, sailing, whatever, I have to join that club and abide by its rules.
2. At any incorporated club, you will see the type of business you described. There may be some interaction at meetings, depending on the State Laws and the way the charter and bylaws read, but in every State I know of, there is a phrase to the effect "The Board of Directors conducts the business of the Club"
I know, I was president of a 450 member Hunting and Fishing club when we had to eliminate the beer keg at meetings (Meetings were always a dinner meeting) due to liability issues. No one at the meeting had less than a 10 mile drive to get home--and impaired drivers on the road is not a good thing. If the BOD had left that to the membership, do you think it would have happened?