Why the AMA is not growing...........
04-28-2011, 01:27 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
OK my POV is this.. Back when I started RC was hard to get into.. You needed some folks in the hobby to help you get started.. They trained you and guided you to join AMA, join the club and fly at the club field. Heck the kits came with flyers for AMA in them and they had flyers at the hobby store too.
These days you just order a ARF or RTF off the internet and hit the local park.. AMA isn't even heard of in many of the park flyer circles.
THey get their friends involved and the cycle continues..
Out at our larger local park we have a guy flying 33% gassers hovering over people on the walking trails.. He's crashed several times..
We tried to talk to him but he has no interest in joining the AMA or a club.. He thinks his homeowners insurance and the city will cover any damage he causes and tells everyone new that too. He's convinced a large group of park flyers the city has the park insured for them to fly. The truth is the local club was insuring the park for park flyers and small heli use only.. THe city wouldn't allow us to post signs or enforce rules so we had to drop support for the park this year..
We now have a local city park official writing letters to the club wanting to know who has been flying Electric jets and Helis over the highway and shopping mall near a local soccer field at night.. It's not one of us.. The heli and jet are well lighted.. I can see them across the river from my house. People on Craigslist started posting questions about the funny lights over the town and the flyers posted back bragging about night flying a 200mph jet.
It's a new wild west of RC.. at some point someone will get hurt and the goverment will step in to regulate us all.. Looking at the FAA proposed rules it's already starting..
Enjoy while you can..
It's hard to convince these guys the AMA has much to offer unless they cause some damage and get stuck with the bill.
These days you just order a ARF or RTF off the internet and hit the local park.. AMA isn't even heard of in many of the park flyer circles.
THey get their friends involved and the cycle continues..
Out at our larger local park we have a guy flying 33% gassers hovering over people on the walking trails.. He's crashed several times..
We tried to talk to him but he has no interest in joining the AMA or a club.. He thinks his homeowners insurance and the city will cover any damage he causes and tells everyone new that too. He's convinced a large group of park flyers the city has the park insured for them to fly. The truth is the local club was insuring the park for park flyers and small heli use only.. THe city wouldn't allow us to post signs or enforce rules so we had to drop support for the park this year..
We now have a local city park official writing letters to the club wanting to know who has been flying Electric jets and Helis over the highway and shopping mall near a local soccer field at night.. It's not one of us.. The heli and jet are well lighted.. I can see them across the river from my house. People on Craigslist started posting questions about the funny lights over the town and the flyers posted back bragging about night flying a 200mph jet.
It's a new wild west of RC.. at some point someone will get hurt and the goverment will step in to regulate us all.. Looking at the FAA proposed rules it's already starting..
Enjoy while you can..
It's hard to convince these guys the AMA has much to offer unless they cause some damage and get stuck with the bill.
04-28-2011, 02:32 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Loose the rag! Read on line as long as you are an AMA member. Or bite the bullet and pay! Like the old saying goes, If you want to play you got to pay.
04-29-2011, 03:36 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Ken , your post makes sence to me , perhaps people are joining or not joining as individuals and not tied to clubs .
Perhaps that is what the AMA needs to focus on .
Perhaps that will address the other issues listed by sscher , and I do agree with the term , wild wild west , its exactly how I see it
Perhaps that is what the AMA needs to focus on .
Perhaps that will address the other issues listed by sscher , and I do agree with the term , wild wild west , its exactly how I see it
04-29-2011, 06:17 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: KenP
The tight coupling of the AMA and clubs made sense at one time but not any more. Why restrict your growth when the hobby as a whole is growing because clubs can't or will not help. We all join(ed) the AMA as individuals not a club members. The AMA needs to figure out how to address the needs of individual members not the club idea they have been stuck on for 30 years.
The tight coupling of the AMA and clubs made sense at one time but not any more. Why restrict your growth when the hobby as a whole is growing because clubs can't or will not help. We all join(ed) the AMA as individuals not a club members. The AMA needs to figure out how to address the needs of individual members not the club idea they have been stuck on for 30 years.
04-29-2011, 06:30 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
I obviously don't understand what it is that you think the AMA needs to do for you that they are not already doing.
that AMA wants to sell iteself to folks
but AMA isnt offering / doesnt know what folks want to buy
Parkfliers are selling like hotcakes, AMA is shrinking.
The fpv/autonomous group is growing like crazy, AMA is shrinking.
We can keep doing what we have always done because we've always done it, and keep shrinking, and keep watching the 'others' grow
OR
maybe we can accept that we need to change things,
and perhaps even stop blaming the customer base for not wanting what we offer
04-29-2011, 06:38 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: K-Bob
What exactly do you wish the AMA to do for ''indviduals'' that they aren't doing now? Start yourr planes for you? Send you a free foamy? I obviously don't understand what it is that you think the AMA needs to do for you that they are not already doing.
What exactly do you wish the AMA to do for ''indviduals'' that they aren't doing now? Start yourr planes for you? Send you a free foamy? I obviously don't understand what it is that you think the AMA needs to do for you that they are not already doing.
I know you don't want to read this...
04-29-2011, 07:14 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
The VP position for your district will be open soon. Will you run for it and offer your expertise in changing the AMA for growth?
04-29-2011, 09:58 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: K-Bob
What exactly do you wish the AMA to do for ''indviduals'' that they aren't doing now? Start yourr planes for you? Send you a free foamy? I obviously don't understand what it is that you think the AMA needs to do for you that they are not already doing.
ORIGINAL: KenP
The tight coupling of the AMA and clubs made sense at one time but not any more. Why restrict your growth when the hobby as a whole is growing because clubs can't or will not help. We all join(ed) the AMA as individuals not a club members. The AMA needs to figure out how to address the needs of individual members not the club idea they have been stuck on for 30 years.
The tight coupling of the AMA and clubs made sense at one time but not any more. Why restrict your growth when the hobby as a whole is growing because clubs can't or will not help. We all join(ed) the AMA as individuals not a club members. The AMA needs to figure out how to address the needs of individual members not the club idea they have been stuck on for 30 years.
I have posted here and other forums (including the AMA's) about what I would like to see. To only be told time and time again those ideas are impractical and it is not that hard to form a club.
04-29-2011, 10:21 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Will you run for it and offer your expertise in changing the AMA for growth?
If what you are doing dont work, do something else
You dont need me to drive to indiana for HQ to know that,
they are not uneducated men, I am pretty sure they have heard of that concept already
Whats your opinion Red,
should AMA just keep doing what we've always done
or change what we are doing cause we are makin like a raisin while the HOBBY has growth?
04-29-2011, 05:08 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
I understand , I just trying to keep this conversation focused on one aspect , grow the hobby , grow the AMA , and you know what happens , we all do prosper , because if sales go up , rc companys can keep introducing more items , more inovation more goodies for all of us
04-29-2011, 08:59 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: mongo
as an individual, i would like to be able to offer site owner primary ins to site owners. as it stands now, not happening. that is just one thing that is only allowed for clubs to do.
as an individual, i would like to be able to offer site owner primary ins to site owners. as it stands now, not happening. that is just one thing that is only allowed for clubs to do.
03-19-2013, 02:46 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
My goodness, my original letter to AMA posted by my son, YNOT almost 10 years is still running and has in excess of 2250 post. Should by chance you have never read the original post, take a few minutes and go back to Page 1 and see what started the maylay
03-20-2013, 06:08 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: tpes
My goodness, my original letter to AMA posted by my son, YNOT almost 10 years is still running and has in excess of 2250 post. Should by chance you have never read the original post, take a few minutes and go back to Page 1 and see what started the maylay
My goodness, my original letter to AMA posted by my son, YNOT almost 10 years is still running and has in excess of 2250 post. Should by chance you have never read the original post, take a few minutes and go back to Page 1 and see what started the maylay
ORIGINAL: tpes
Steve,
My AMA is 20236 so I have been in the loop for some time, also I am a hobby shop owner for 27 years in the Houston, Texas area and a great supporter of AMA.
The AMA continues to complain about not appealing to the new younger members and continues to try outdated methods to cultivate these younger folks, both male and female. Let's face it, having a model building clinic during the Nats or at Muncie is not going to attract new members. So what's stopping the growth? Try this as a MAJOR problem. The staunchy old AMA members that run families off the flying fields when they show up with one of the new "hobby type" radio control planes sold by companies like Great Planes and Horizon Hobbies, or Wallgreens, or Sam's, or Sharper Image, you get the point.
We try to tell the new R/C flyer about how they no longer have to spend $400 to $500 to be in the hobby, about how the R/C community is a great place for families and youngsters to bond around a common interest, only to have the great disappointment of rudely being asked to leave the field because the don't have an "AMA License". Remember that term "license"? We no longer use that word in the store and tell the customer that is buying a full function trainer that they should join the AMA for the insurance, not because they need a license.
It is incumberent upon the AMA to educate its members that we DO NOT need a license to fly these models.
Per the letter of the law, what about the R/C car groups that run cars at a flying field. One club here in Houston actually has an R/C car track at their field and host events, are they in violation of the AMA guidelines by not insisting that these folks be members of AMA?
Steve, it's really tough to grow the hobby when so many of these old hats are still running things at the local level quoteing antiquated outdated rules that are still on the books at AMA.
We strongly suggest that the new full function R/C flyer join AMA, but he has just spent $400 buying a model and wants to fly. For those situations we put them on a buddy box and fly them until their AMA is processed.
But again, what about the new guys with the $120 to $190 radio control electric aircraft they got for Christmas, and believe me they are being sold by the thousands around the country, are we suppose to run them off or groom them as the future of the AMA. My choice would be to groom them for the hobby, but we can't do that by insisting that they spend almost $50 to join the AMA just to fly a $120 airplane. But I do believe that if treated right most of these folks will want to stay in the hobby, buy a .40 trainer and join AMA. But if we continue to treat them like they don't belong we can not expect them to want to continue in a hobby that does not welcome them with open arms!
So where do these folks fit into the AMA, are they outcast or are they the future? The AMA needs to find a place for them in our organization. Maybe a trial membership, maybe a no magazine membership, maybe anything to not run the folks off for good. Give it some thought, a lot of future menbers are being put at risk of never joining the AMA.
Currently the AMA has a greater pool of future members as in any time in its history, let's not let them get away because we can't or won't move past "the way it has always been done". Times change and so must the AMA!
Thanks for your time,
Ed Dupaquier
AMA 20236
Trains & Planes Toys & Hobbies
Houston, Texas
Steve,
My AMA is 20236 so I have been in the loop for some time, also I am a hobby shop owner for 27 years in the Houston, Texas area and a great supporter of AMA.
The AMA continues to complain about not appealing to the new younger members and continues to try outdated methods to cultivate these younger folks, both male and female. Let's face it, having a model building clinic during the Nats or at Muncie is not going to attract new members. So what's stopping the growth? Try this as a MAJOR problem. The staunchy old AMA members that run families off the flying fields when they show up with one of the new "hobby type" radio control planes sold by companies like Great Planes and Horizon Hobbies, or Wallgreens, or Sam's, or Sharper Image, you get the point.
We try to tell the new R/C flyer about how they no longer have to spend $400 to $500 to be in the hobby, about how the R/C community is a great place for families and youngsters to bond around a common interest, only to have the great disappointment of rudely being asked to leave the field because the don't have an "AMA License". Remember that term "license"? We no longer use that word in the store and tell the customer that is buying a full function trainer that they should join the AMA for the insurance, not because they need a license.
It is incumberent upon the AMA to educate its members that we DO NOT need a license to fly these models.
Per the letter of the law, what about the R/C car groups that run cars at a flying field. One club here in Houston actually has an R/C car track at their field and host events, are they in violation of the AMA guidelines by not insisting that these folks be members of AMA?
Steve, it's really tough to grow the hobby when so many of these old hats are still running things at the local level quoteing antiquated outdated rules that are still on the books at AMA.
We strongly suggest that the new full function R/C flyer join AMA, but he has just spent $400 buying a model and wants to fly. For those situations we put them on a buddy box and fly them until their AMA is processed.
But again, what about the new guys with the $120 to $190 radio control electric aircraft they got for Christmas, and believe me they are being sold by the thousands around the country, are we suppose to run them off or groom them as the future of the AMA. My choice would be to groom them for the hobby, but we can't do that by insisting that they spend almost $50 to join the AMA just to fly a $120 airplane. But I do believe that if treated right most of these folks will want to stay in the hobby, buy a .40 trainer and join AMA. But if we continue to treat them like they don't belong we can not expect them to want to continue in a hobby that does not welcome them with open arms!
So where do these folks fit into the AMA, are they outcast or are they the future? The AMA needs to find a place for them in our organization. Maybe a trial membership, maybe a no magazine membership, maybe anything to not run the folks off for good. Give it some thought, a lot of future menbers are being put at risk of never joining the AMA.
Currently the AMA has a greater pool of future members as in any time in its history, let's not let them get away because we can't or won't move past "the way it has always been done". Times change and so must the AMA!
Thanks for your time,
Ed Dupaquier
AMA 20236
Trains & Planes Toys & Hobbies
Houston, Texas
03-20-2013, 12:59 PM
#2320
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Wow... hadn't realized how much time has passed since this thread got started or since I made a couple of comments.
Couldn't agree more with Ed's letter above. If anything I feel that the AMA has become even less relevant as time has progressed. Why do I say that? Mainly big changes in technology and the increasing popularity of these mini and micro park flyers. Ten years ago, those electric jobs were pretty horrible... now they have progressed to the point they can pretty much keep up with nitro in terms of both size and performance (I love to throw out my Katana MD as an example! LOL!).
As said above, it's also hard to justify an AMA membership to someone (like me) who is perfectly happy flying something like a Blade 130x around their local baseball diamond. Even if it were possible to convince them otherwise, the "Park Flyer" option really is a joke with too many restrictions, and I for one don't see the benefit of full membership when put in that context. The magazine isn't very good, and I seriously doubt many of us really give a hoot about being able to vote in the organizations elections.
Ed also brings up an important point about extending warm welcomes and courtesy to new flyers, especially those that are just "getting their feet wet" in the hobby with an inexpensive model. Honestly I haven't seen any young people in our club for years, and I know it isn't because they aren't interested in model airplanes or helicopters... it's because there are too many crusty old flyers who don't want to take the time or have the patience to pass along their knowledge, and the few that do usually pontificate to the new people telling them they must do things this way or that forgetting that they were there once. In the eyes of a young person that just isn't "cool".
So yeah, I agree it's time for both the AMA and just the attitude of our club members to "get with the times".
Couldn't agree more with Ed's letter above. If anything I feel that the AMA has become even less relevant as time has progressed. Why do I say that? Mainly big changes in technology and the increasing popularity of these mini and micro park flyers. Ten years ago, those electric jobs were pretty horrible... now they have progressed to the point they can pretty much keep up with nitro in terms of both size and performance (I love to throw out my Katana MD as an example! LOL!).
As said above, it's also hard to justify an AMA membership to someone (like me) who is perfectly happy flying something like a Blade 130x around their local baseball diamond. Even if it were possible to convince them otherwise, the "Park Flyer" option really is a joke with too many restrictions, and I for one don't see the benefit of full membership when put in that context. The magazine isn't very good, and I seriously doubt many of us really give a hoot about being able to vote in the organizations elections.
Ed also brings up an important point about extending warm welcomes and courtesy to new flyers, especially those that are just "getting their feet wet" in the hobby with an inexpensive model. Honestly I haven't seen any young people in our club for years, and I know it isn't because they aren't interested in model airplanes or helicopters... it's because there are too many crusty old flyers who don't want to take the time or have the patience to pass along their knowledge, and the few that do usually pontificate to the new people telling them they must do things this way or that forgetting that they were there once. In the eyes of a young person that just isn't "cool".
So yeah, I agree it's time for both the AMA and just the attitude of our club members to "get with the times".
03-20-2013, 01:46 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
This is an old thread. I have to say it must be some locations are not growing. Our local club has seen several new guys lately. I think it's the clubs out there that is driving people away. Tonight is our 1 meeting a year. We eat some pizza and re elect the officers.
We all get along great no matter what we love to fly. Everyone is a flyer except for one or two builders. They build them and we will fly them.
I have seen clubs out there have fighting and they all have 12 or more meeting per year. Only thing I can say we hear the same comment from visitors the fly with us. We love coming here because you have a fun group of guys that love to fly. We never here complaining like at our club.
We do have several ProBro's at the club that end up helping test fly new planes, train, and help with getting planes ready to go when asked. It's just the way it ends up. Not that it's 100% PB performing these tasks but 90%+
Get rid of meetings is a good start to fixing this issue and welcome everyone to your club.
Crash99
We all get along great no matter what we love to fly. Everyone is a flyer except for one or two builders. They build them and we will fly them.
I have seen clubs out there have fighting and they all have 12 or more meeting per year. Only thing I can say we hear the same comment from visitors the fly with us. We love coming here because you have a fun group of guys that love to fly. We never here complaining like at our club.
We do have several ProBro's at the club that end up helping test fly new planes, train, and help with getting planes ready to go when asked. It's just the way it ends up. Not that it's 100% PB performing these tasks but 90%+
Get rid of meetings is a good start to fixing this issue and welcome everyone to your club.
Crash99
03-20-2013, 03:17 PM
#2322
RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
12 meetings a year CAN be great if they involve talking/showing/doing Model Aviation items....NOT Politics; rules, etc. I belonged to a club many years ago that held the 'business' meeting for about 10-15 minutes and then talked AIRPLANES for 2-3 hours! WE LOVED IT and yes the club was growing
03-21-2013, 09:02 AM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
Your club sounds great. But there are so many clubs out there that has a few that moved their hobby from flying to having the hobby of running the club.
I saw an event, a fun fly invent here in MO with the excluding a group of flyers from their event. Really? A fun fly is ment to be fun, ....... That's why it's called a FUN fly event. I will assume this is a club that hurts the AMA membership. This club has 12 meeting a year.
Why would you not want people that has the same love of flying?
Crash99
I saw an event, a fun fly invent here in MO with the excluding a group of flyers from their event. Really? A fun fly is ment to be fun, ....... That's why it's called a FUN fly event. I will assume this is a club that hurts the AMA membership. This club has 12 meeting a year.
Why would you not want people that has the same love of flying?
Crash99
03-21-2013, 12:25 PM
#2324
RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: crash99
Your club sounds great. But there are so many clubs out there that has a few that moved their hobby from flying to having the hobby of running the club.
I saw an event, a fun fly invent here in MO with the excluding a group of flyers from their event. Really? A fun fly is ment to be fun, ....... That's why it's called a FUN fly event. I will assume this is a club that hurts the AMA membership. This club has 12 meeting a year.
Why would you not want people that has the same love of flying?
Crash99
Your club sounds great. But there are so many clubs out there that has a few that moved their hobby from flying to having the hobby of running the club.
I saw an event, a fun fly invent here in MO with the excluding a group of flyers from their event. Really? A fun fly is ment to be fun, ....... That's why it's called a FUN fly event. I will assume this is a club that hurts the AMA membership. This club has 12 meeting a year.
Why would you not want people that has the same love of flying?
Crash99
It's quite a stretch of the imagination to think that any type of "airplane-specific" Fun Fly event hurts AMA's membership.
Some clubs are situated in areas where legal problems with neighbors exist, where physical problems with the field exist, where there are on going maintenance issues. These clubs find that monthly meetings are needed to take care of the "infrastructure". The founders of our local club had to appear in court about matters concerning the use of this field at least a few times over the years. These are the same guys that pick up the cigarette butts, clean up the trash that some members don't want to take home with them, keep the mower running, power wash the runway, deal with the demands of the landlord, etc., etc. These are also the same guys who get labeled the "Grumpy Old Men" and the "Spoil Sports" by the guys who don't think there should be ANY rules besides "Just Have Fun"..
03-21-2013, 06:59 PM
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
If I put on a ''Fun Fly''for .049 to .15 powered combat planes, that's all that I want to see show up that day or that weekend. It has nothing at all to do with how much I love other types of planes.
It's quite a stretch of the imagination to think that any type of ''airplane-specific'' Fun Fly event hurts AMA's membership.
Some clubs are situated in areas where legal problems with neighbors exist, where physical problems with the field exist, where there are on going maintenance issues. These clubs find that monthly meetings are needed to take care of the ''infrastructure''. The founders of our local club had to appear in court about matters concerning the use of this field at least a few times over the years. These are the same guys that pick up the cigarette butts, clean up the trash that some members don't want to take home with them, keep the mower running, power wash the runway, deal with the demands of the landlord, etc., etc. These are also the same guys who get labeled the ''Grumpy Old Men'' and the ''Spoil Sports'' by the guys who don't think there should be ANY rules besides ''Just Have Fun''..
ORIGINAL: crash99
Your club sounds great. But there are so many clubs out there that has a few that moved their hobby from flying to having the hobby of running the club.
I saw an event, a fun fly invent here in MO with the excluding a group of flyers from their event. Really? A fun fly is ment to be fun, ....... That's why it's called a FUN fly event. I will assume this is a club that hurts the AMA membership. This club has 12 meeting a year.
Why would you not want people that has the same love of flying?
Crash99
Your club sounds great. But there are so many clubs out there that has a few that moved their hobby from flying to having the hobby of running the club.
I saw an event, a fun fly invent here in MO with the excluding a group of flyers from their event. Really? A fun fly is ment to be fun, ....... That's why it's called a FUN fly event. I will assume this is a club that hurts the AMA membership. This club has 12 meeting a year.
Why would you not want people that has the same love of flying?
Crash99
It's quite a stretch of the imagination to think that any type of ''airplane-specific'' Fun Fly event hurts AMA's membership.
Some clubs are situated in areas where legal problems with neighbors exist, where physical problems with the field exist, where there are on going maintenance issues. These clubs find that monthly meetings are needed to take care of the ''infrastructure''. The founders of our local club had to appear in court about matters concerning the use of this field at least a few times over the years. These are the same guys that pick up the cigarette butts, clean up the trash that some members don't want to take home with them, keep the mower running, power wash the runway, deal with the demands of the landlord, etc., etc. These are also the same guys who get labeled the ''Grumpy Old Men'' and the ''Spoil Sports'' by the guys who don't think there should be ANY rules besides ''Just Have Fun''..
Anyway, there have been a few instances around here where 3D planes have been excluded from the "Fun Fly" event... When asked what constitutes a 3D plane...the answer was pretty much any plane I had...LOL Nice to be loved...[
]